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Dumpster Dan


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#61 weird-O

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 12:08 PM

For future reference can you use the KG Anything's POSSSSSSIBLE
Thanks
Lol

Good one  :D


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#62 Slidemaster

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 12:26 PM

I understand your point, but the Tigers had three Cy-Young pitchers and the Orioles swept them. It's not impossible.

And IMO Tillman is an ace when healthy. It also bodes well that Bundy and Gausman seemed to have matured this year as well. And then there is this guy they got from the Phillies....


Tillman ain't no ace.
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#63 ncbirdfan

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 02:56 PM

Tillman ain't no ace.

While he may be a #2 or maybe even a #3 on some teams, he would be an ace on quite a few. Who knows? When all is said and done, he may be a #2 or #3 or #4 on the Orioles staff in the future. The Orioles have done a pretty good job at growing and acquiring the arms.



#64 CROUSEMAN

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 03:32 PM

Nice move by DD to hold on to one of his greatest dumpster finds ever - Brad Brach.  He could of traded him to Mets in a deal for Granderson or Bruce.  Now he is our short term closer. 



#65 ncbirdfan

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 05:50 PM

Nice move by DD to hold on to one of his greatest dumpster finds ever - Brad Brach.  He could of traded him to Mets in a deal for Granderson or Bruce.  Now he is our short term closer. 

And he may have gotten a steal from the Phillies.



#66 weird-O

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 08:38 AM

While he may be a #2 or maybe even a #3 on some teams, he would be an ace on quite a few. Who knows? When all is said and done, he may be a #2 or #3 or #4 on the Orioles staff in the future. The Orioles have done a pretty good job at growing and acquiring the arms.

I'm not sure you know what an ace is. One is not awarded the label of "ace", based on his position in the rotation. An ace is always an ace, no matter who the other pitchers are in the same rotation. I agree that Tillman is no ace. He's the O's #1 starter, but so was Jeremy Guthrie and Rodrigo Lopez, at one time. Using your definition, Guts and Lopez were ace pitchers. And that simply isn't true. It works the other way as well. Glavin and Maddox weren't the #1 starter in the Braves rotation. But they were both undeniably ace pitchers. Randy Johnson was in the #2 slot, behind Schilling. But Johnson was an ace.    


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#67 CROUSEMAN

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 08:56 AM

I'm not sure you know what an ace is. One is not awarded the label of "ace", based on his position in the rotation. An ace is always an ace, no matter who the other pitchers are in the same rotation. I agree that Tillman is no ace. He's the O's #1 starter, but so was Jeremy Guthrie and Rodrigo Lopez, at one time. Using your definition, Guts and Lopez were ace pitchers. And that simply isn't true. It works the other way as well. Glavin and Maddox weren't the #1 starter in the Braves rotation. But they were both undeniably ace pitchers. Randy Johnson was in the #2 slot, behind Schilling. But Johnson was an ace.    

 

I think just about everybody would admit that Tillman is no "ace".  I haven't gone through the rosters, but there are probably only 10 or so aces in baseball if that.  And that "ace"  definition can be somewhat subjective.  I mean Kershaw is an ace.  And is an ace a higher level than a number 1 starter or the same thing??   I always thought of Tillman as a top end number 2.  He stacks up very well against most number 2 starters in baseball.

Bundy is the "Ace" in waiting.  Forget about Gausman.   Bundy should have the Ace mantle by mid year.  With the cutter back in the arsenal, he is now on a different level.  Gausman will be a very nice number 2 compliment.



#68 weird-O

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 09:11 AM

I think just about everybody would admit that Tillman is no "ace".  I haven't gone through the rosters, but there are probably only 10 or so aces in baseball if that.  And that "ace"  definition can be somewhat subjective.  I mean Kershaw is an ace.  And is an ace a higher level than a number 1 starter or the same thing??   I always thought of Tillman as a top end number 2.  He stacks up very well against most number 2 starters in baseball.

Bundy is the "Ace" in waiting.  Forget about Gausman.   Bundy should have the Ace mantle by mid year.  With the cutter back in the arsenal, he is now on a different level.  Gausman will be a very nice number 2 compliment.

Again, being in the #1 slot of a rotation, doesn't make someone an ace pitcher. Otherwise, there would be 30 aces in the sport. And Glavin, Johnson and Maddox wouldn't be ace pitchers. If it helps, there is the term "true #1 pitcher", which is another way to say "ace". 


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#69 CROUSEMAN

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 09:39 AM

Again, being in the #1 slot of a rotation, doesn't make someone an ace pitcher. Otherwise, there would be 30 aces in the sport. And Glavin, Johnson and Maddox wouldn't be ace pitchers. If it helps, there is the term "true #1 pitcher", which is another way to say "ace". 

 

Yep got it.  Ace and true number one same.  So what is your definition of an "ace" or true number one?  I mean I can think of Kershaw, Arrietta, Sale and Scherzer.   What about guys like Price and Straburg??   I don't think they are aces,  so are they number 2's now??



#70 Slidemaster

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 09:55 AM

Yep got it. Ace and true number one same. So what is your definition of an "ace" or true number one? I mean I can think of Kershaw, Arrietta, Sale and Scherzer. What about guys like Price and Straburg?? I don't think they are aces, so are they number 2's now??


Kershaw
Scherzer
Bumgarner
Cueto
Arrieta
Syndergaard
DeGrom
Kluber
Sale
Maybe Verlander
Maybe Keuchel

That's who I'd label an Ace right now. I'm probably missing a couple but that's close.
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#71 CROUSEMAN

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 10:28 AM

Kershaw
Scherzer
Bumgarner
Cueto
Arrieta
Syndergaard
DeGrom
Kluber
Sale
Maybe Verlander
Maybe Keuchel

That's who I'd label an Ace right now. I'm probably missing a couple but that's close.

 

Thanks Slide.  I see 6 no doubt aces on your list - Kershaw, Scherzer, Arrietta, Sale, Kluber and Bumgardner.  Anybody who has a maybe isn't an ace like Verlnder and Keuchel.   I would have questions on Cueto and I haven't followed the 2 Met guys enough to know if they have a long enough track record of dominance to be an ace.  Anyway you slice it, aces are rare and there are a boatload of teams without them.



#72 weird-O

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 11:39 AM

Yep got it.  Ace and true number one same.  So what is your definition of an "ace" or true number one?  I mean I can think of Kershaw, Arrietta, Sale and Scherzer.   What about guys like Price and Straburg??   I don't think they are aces,  so are they number 2's now??

 

I was just clarifying that a pitcher's position in the rotation doesn't qualify them for entry into that club. 

 

The more fun discussion of who is an ace, that's got a sliding scale element to it. I think Price qualifies. He's routinely in the running for the CYA. Verlander was an ace at one time. But his last few years have been up and down. He was certainly up, last season. But he's 34 now, so it's understandable if he's no longer considered to be among the elite pitchers. 


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#73 CROUSEMAN

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 12:59 PM

Thanks Slide.  I see 6 no doubt aces on your list - Kershaw, Scherzer, Arrietta, Sale, Kluber and Bumgardner.  Anybody who has a maybe isn't an ace like Verlnder and Keuchel.   I would have questions on Cueto and I haven't followed the 2 Met guys enough to know if they have a long enough track record of dominance to be an ace.  Anyway you slice it, aces are rare and there are a boatload of teams without them.

 

Yeah I'd put Cueto on the ace list.  He has gone 21-5 in his year plus with the Giants with a sub 3 ERA. 






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