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Stupid Democrat Maxine Waters on Illegal Aliens: "This is their country"


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#61 Guido2

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 12:36 PM

The term "better" is subjective, and very much in the eyes of the beholder.

Define what he has to do to be a "success", in your view. Furthermore, if he ends up starting a war, how is that measured against say, building his wall (which you seem to believe we so desperately need).

The fact that Trump has a Republican Congress, should easily make his job of getting his agenda through....very easy.

 

ahhhh yeah ....we can see how that is flying

 



#62 SmarterThanYou

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 12:37 PM

Well, it's not all subjective.  Obama averaged 1.6% GDP growth per year over eight years.  Trump should easily be able to better that.  Secondly, I don't see Trump starting any wars.  He wants to let adversaries know we are willing to hold them accountable but I don't see any war unless some limited action of ours caused the nut in NK to attack SK.  I doubt China wants any of that, either, so war is unlikely, IMO.  If the economy improves, ISIS is defeated, illegal immigration is reduced and our standing with our allies is enhanced, I'll consider it a success.


Yes it is, subjective.

I'll ask you again: what things does Trump need to do, and by what measure shall we measure those accomplishment...to assess whether he has been successful?

And my point about a war is....he will not be successful in everything, so there will be pluses and minus on any "success" ledger. How do you weigh something like a GDP improvement, over getting us into a war, for example? The two are clearly different...so, how do you normalize? Something important to you may not be important to me. Subjectivity comes into play.

Edited by SmarterThanYou, 21 April 2017 - 12:40 PM.


#63 SmarterThanYou

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 12:38 PM

I think he should release the returns.  His net worth or tax payments have nothing to do with governing.


No, but business dealings do impact decisions.

#64 hst2

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 12:42 PM

And here I thought you were going to remain rational. Let's stick to this country, shall we? We have as much similarity to Nazi Germany as we do to Mao's China or the Soviet Union. The fugitive slave law was the law. If people found it to be an odious law, they could change it. However, we are talking about illegal aliens, not slaves. That is a diversion.


The analogies relate to following "the law" Without questioning it.

Of course you don't want to go there. Some of the most inhumane acts in history have been committed through "following the law".

That is why it makes for such a poor argument.

If you cannot provide a reason for something other than "its the law", you should probably think twice about supporting it.

Edited by hst2, 21 April 2017 - 12:43 PM.

"It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has descended from man. - HL Mencken

#65 soulflower

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 12:46 PM

Care to elaborate?


Trump inherited the best economy numbers since 2006

Who was President before Trump?

CNBC:

The stock market is at all-time highs. Though growth in the gross domestic product is slow by historical standards, the economy is in the tenth year of one of the longest sustained expansions in history.

And the U.S. job market, which is creating jobs faster than employers can fill them, appears to be stronger than it's been in nearly a decade.

The supporting evidence goes far beyond the nonfarm unemployment rate that draws the most attention every month.

The latest report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics — the decades-old survey that Trump took issue with during the campaign — showed that the U.S. economy added an estimated 227,000 new jobs last month, while the unemployment rate ticked up to 4.8 percent.

So, why the gloom and doom about jobs within the Trump administration and among tens of millions of his supporters?

While those job market indicators show strength overall, they mask a much longer-term shift that has sharply divided the fortunes of American workers.

Simply put, the U.S. doesn't have a jobs shortage, it has a skills shortage.

For a variety of reasons, workers with less than some college training have been losing ground to their better-educated peers for decades.


http://www.cnbc.com/...nomic-data.html
"...reality has a well-known liberal bias"

#66 hst2

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 12:51 PM

You actually sound somewhat rational here.  Nice job.  By right, we can deport all of them.  The reality is that it will never happen.  The criminals, the felons, the johnny come latelies; they have to go.  Those here for a long time and established will stay.  Despite the hysteria, we are not deporting farm workers, housemaids and gardeners.


It's completely rationale.

Trump has shown that those who have been here for a long time will not neccesary stay. He has deported them too.

So you are incorrect.
"It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has descended from man. - HL Mencken

#67 hst2

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 12:52 PM

I hate to break this to a loyal gay Democrat like yourself, but white faces tend to be the most tolerant towards your lifestyle. Yet ironically, the LGBT crowd (most Caucasian themselves) are quick to jump on the anti-white bandwagon. The same goes for the tolerance towards Islam. I bet many young kids in school are mislead to believe that Islam and Progressivism are synonymous. People like you do nothing to dispel that notion either.


Then why is the white party so opposed to them?
"It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has descended from man. - HL Mencken

#68 soulflower

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 12:52 PM

Well, it's not all subjective. Obama averaged 1.6% GDP growth per year over eight years. Trump should easily be able to better that.


Trump is off to a slow start. There are no signs that annual GDP growth will exceed 2% this year.

Maybe it will happen eventually but nothing Trump has done so far has done anything to boost economic growth


Secondly, I don't see Trump starting any wars. He wants to let adversaries know we are willing to hold them accountable but I don't see any war unless some limited action of ours caused the nut in NK to attack SK. I doubt China wants any of that, either, so war is unlikely, IMO. If the economy improves, ISIS is defeated, illegal immigration is reduced and our standing with our allies is enhanced, I'll consider it a success.


That will only get him so far

Once our adversaries know Trump is unwilling to start a War, they will ignore his threats
"...reality has a well-known liberal bias"

#69 veritas

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 12:54 PM

Trump inherited the best economy numbers since 2006

Who was President before Trump?

CNBC:

The stock market is at all-time highs. Though growth in the gross domestic product is slow by historical standards, the economy is in the tenth year of one of the longest sustained expansions in history.

And the U.S. job market, which is creating jobs faster than employers can fill them, appears to be stronger than it's been in nearly a decade.

The supporting evidence goes far beyond the nonfarm unemployment rate that draws the most attention every month.

The latest report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics — the decades-old survey that Trump took issue with during the campaign — showed that the U.S. economy added an estimated 227,000 new jobs last month, while the unemployment rate ticked up to 4.8 percent.

So, why the gloom and doom about jobs within the Trump administration and among tens of millions of his supporters?

While those job market indicators show strength overall, they mask a much longer-term shift that has sharply divided the fortunes of American workers.

Simply put, the U.S. doesn't have a jobs shortage, it has a skills shortage.

For a variety of reasons, workers with less than some college training have been losing ground to their better-educated peers for decades.


http://www.cnbc.com/...nomic-data.html

Please tell me how any of that is attributable to Obama?  What did he do to lift the stock market?  What did he do to create quality jobs?  Real wages adjusted for inflation didn't rise.  They haven't really risen since 1979.  We had the lowest GDP growth over a term in 90 years.  How is that "saving" the economy?   What really saved it was the stimulus package, which Obama, or any president, would have been forced to accept.  The alternative was having a score of major bank failures and recession or depression.


Ne Nuntium Necare

#70 veritas

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 12:58 PM

Trump is off to a slow start. There are no signs that annual GDP growth will exceed 2% this year.

Maybe it will happen eventually but nothing Trump has done so far has done anything to boost economic growth



That will only get him so far

Once our adversaries know Trump is unwilling to start a War, they will ignore his threats

How are they going to know that?  You don't know what will start a war until you finally cause one to start.  Nobody wants a war.  NK can't possibly win a war with the US and SK and I doubt that China would try save their bacon. However, China also doesn;t want a free and united Korea all the way to their borders.  For that reason, China will eventually keep NK in line.


Ne Nuntium Necare

#71 veritas

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:01 PM

The analogies relate to following "the law" Without questioning it.

Of course you don't want to go there. Some of the most inhumane acts in history have been committed through "following the law".

That is why it makes for such a poor argument.

If you cannot provide a reason for something other than "its the law", you should probably think twice about supporting it.

I see, so our immigration law and wanting to maintain a sovereign border are suddenly inhumane.  That would make every other nation that secures its borders inhumane as well.  You seem to want a borderless world.


Ne Nuntium Necare

#72 soulflower

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:03 PM

Please tell me how any of that is attributable to Obama?  What did he do to lift the stock market?  What did he do to create quality jobs? 

 

President Obama helped stabilize the economy after it fell into a tailspin between 2008 and 2009. Since then, we're now approaching pre-2007 highs in several economic indicators

 

Despite the doomsday predictions about Obamacare killing jobs, it has had the opposite affect on the economy. Hiring in the healthcare industry is booming

 

Example: Healthcare drives yearly job growth

 

 

 Real wages adjusted for inflation didn't rise.  They haven't really risen since 1979.  

 

Another swing and miss by Veritas:

 

Wage Growth Surged to a Seven-Year High in 2016

 

 

We had the lowest GDP growth over a term in 90 years.  How is that "saving" the economy?   What really saved it was the stimulus package, which Obama, or any president, would have been forced to accept.  The alternative was having a score of major bank failures and recession or depression.

 

There are lots of different factors contributing to GDP growth

 

Most economists think 1.5-2.5% annually is the New Normal

 

Forbes: 

 

Estimates suggest the new normal for U.S. GDP growth has dropped to between 1½ and 1¾%, noticeably slower than the typical postwar pace. The slowdown stems mainly from demographics and educational attainment. As baby boomers retire, employment growth shrinks. And educational attainment of the workforce has plateaued, reducing its contribution to productivity growth through labor quality. The GDP growth forecast assumes that, apart from these effects, the modest productivity growth is relatively “normal”—in line with its pace for most of the period since 1973.

 

https://www.forbes.c...p/#1f0d24b2338b


"...reality has a well-known liberal bias"

#73 veritas

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:05 PM

Yes it is, subjective.

I'll ask you again: what things does Trump need to do, and by what measure shall we measure those accomplishment...to assess whether he has been successful?

And my point about a war is....he will not be successful in everything, so there will be pluses and minus on any "success" ledger. How do you weigh something like a GDP improvement, over getting us into a war, for example? The two are clearly different...so, how do you normalize? Something important to you may not be important to me. Subjectivity comes into play.

GDP growth is a number.  It is clearly easy to compare for people who give it credence.  As for a war, let's worry about that when and if one ever starts.  I don't think Trump wants a war when he has so much domestic stuff on his hands.  After the Iraq fiasco, we better have a very good reason for any war.  NK is the only place where I see the possibility but I think it is a low one.


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#74 soulflower

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:05 PM

How are they going to know that?  You don't know what will start a war until you finally cause one to start.  Nobody wants a war.  NK can't possibly win a war with the US and SK and I doubt that China would try save their bacon. However, China also doesn;t want a free and united Korea all the way to their borders.  For that reason, China will eventually keep NK in line.

 

I don't think any of our adversaries want to provoke a war with the US

What I think they will continue to do is "whatever they want" short of anything that directly harms the US or our allies


"...reality has a well-known liberal bias"

#75 veritas

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:09 PM

President Obama helped stabilize the economy after it fell into a tailspin between 2008 and 2009. Since then, we're now approaching pre-2007 highs in several economic indicators

 

Despite the doomsday predictions about Obamacare killing jobs, it has had the opposite affect on the economy. Hiring in the healthcare industry is booming

 

Example: Healthcare drives yearly job growth

 

 

Another swing and miss by Veritas:

 

Wage Growth Surged to a Seven-Year High in 2016

 

 

There are lots of different factors contributing to GDP growth

 

Most economists think 1.5-2.5% annually is the New Normal

 

Forbes: 

 

Estimates suggest the new normal for U.S. GDP growth has dropped to between 1½ and 1¾%, noticeably slower than the typical postwar pace. The slowdown stems mainly from demographics and educational attainment. As baby boomers retire, employment growth shrinks. And educational attainment of the workforce has plateaued, reducing its contribution to productivity growth through labor quality. The GDP growth forecast assumes that, apart from these effects, the modest productivity growth is relatively “normal”—in line with its pace for most of the period since 1973.

 

https://www.forbes.c...p/#1f0d24b2338b

http://www.pewresear...ed-for-decades/

 

A 7 year high only means that it's better than 2009.  That doesn't mean we've had any actual growth over the long term.  It has barely moved.


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#76 hst2

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:17 PM

I see, so our immigration law and wanting to maintain a sovereign border are suddenly inhumane.  That would make every other nation that secures its borders inhumane as well.  You seem to want a borderless world.


You are dodging the point as we are talking about people who are already here.
"It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has descended from man. - HL Mencken

#77 veritas

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:21 PM

You are dodging the point as we are talking about people who are already here.

Yes, people here in violation of the law.  Will they all go?  No, but, as we discussed, some must.


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#78 soulflower

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:30 PM

http://www.pewresear...ed-for-decades/

 

A 7 year high only means that it's better than 2009.  That doesn't mean we've had any actual growth over the long term.  It has barely moved.

 

It has moved in the right direction


"...reality has a well-known liberal bias"

#79 zenwalk

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:34 PM

http://www.pewresear...ed-for-decades/

 

A 7 year high only means that it's better than 2009.  That doesn't mean we've had any actual growth over the long term.  It has barely moved.

There's been plenty of growth but it's all within the ranks of the 1%. It's barely moved for everyone else.


"A screaming comes across the sky. . ." -- Thomas Pynchon

#80 hst2

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:40 PM

Yes, people here in violation of the law.  Will they all go?  No, but, as we discussed, some must.


And as we have seen, Trump is targeting those you do not include.

That is the point. He is inhumane.
"It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has descended from man. - HL Mencken




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