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Pickle20

This team is in trouble

150 posts in this topic

11 minutes ago, ncbirdfan said:

Don't look now, but this team that is in trouble is only a half game out of first now.

Yeah, cuz ya know...that's the standard by which to evaluate the team's health.

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5 hours ago, OriginalColtsFan said:

Yeah, cuz ya know...that's the standard by which to evaluate the team's health.

Well, maybe not, and yet...the Royals took a so-so group of starters and a great bullpen to the WS two years ago. And with the exception of losing Britton for a couple of months, the O's bullpen has pitched very well, minus last week. And pitched four scoreless innings last night. 

I think it's pretty rare to have a club with great starting pitching, great middle and long relief, a shutdown closer, power hitting, sterling defense and clutch hitting...all at once. 

The fact that the Orioles do have some issues, yet are a 1/2 game out of first, is not a cause for major concern at this point. 

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3 hours ago, mlatoman said:

Well, maybe not, and yet...the Royals took a so-so group of starters and a great bullpen to the WS two years ago. And with the exception of losing Britton for a couple of months, the O's bullpen has pitched very well, minus last week. And pitched four scoreless innings last night. 

I think it's pretty rare to have a club with great starting pitching, great middle and long relief, a shutdown closer, power hitting, sterling defense and clutch hitting...all at once. 

The fact that the Orioles do have some issues, yet are a 1/2 game out of first, is not a cause for major concern at this point. 

It's not a cause for major concern for YOU at this point. Others disagree. I'm in that group.

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4 hours ago, mlatoman said:

Well, maybe not, and yet...the Royals took a so-so group of starters and a great bullpen to the WS two years ago. And with the exception of losing Britton for a couple of months, the O's bullpen has pitched very well, minus last week. And pitched four scoreless innings last night. 

I think it's pretty rare to have a club with great starting pitching, great middle and long relief, a shutdown closer, power hitting, sterling defense and clutch hitting...all at once. 

The fact that the Orioles do have some issues, yet are a 1/2 game out of first, is not a cause for major concern at this point. 

And that is my point. It's a long season. All teams have struggles at some point. If the Orioles can keep in contention and then get completely healthy, they will do fine. The fact that they are 1/2 game out with all the troubles is actually encouraging.

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If UJ and Gausman continue with their dreadful seasons, there is no doubt this team is in serious trouble.  You can survive with one knucklehead in the rotation, but two???  Its all on Gausman to get it together, cause we all know who UJ is.   Gausman is the biggest disappointment since Arrietta crapped the bed 4 years ago.  The parallels are so similar. 

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Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, CROUSEMAN said:

If UJ and Gausman continue with their dreadful seasons, there is no doubt this team is in serious trouble.  You can survive with one knucklehead in the rotation, but two???  Its all on Gausman to get it together, cause we all know who UJ is.   Gausman is the biggest disappointment since Arrietta crapped the bed 4 years ago.  The parallels are so similar. 

And at some point if Gausman or UJ continue to suck it up they can be replaced. That could be done by committee or maybe some of the younger arms can establish themselves and  fill those spots. They might even look outside the organization and trade for another arm at some point.

Edited by ncbirdfan

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Posted (edited)

35 minutes ago, ncbirdfan said:

And at some point if Gausman or UJ continue to suck it up they can be replaced. That could be done by committee or maybe some of the younger arms can establish themselves and  fill those spots. They might even look outside the organization and trade for another arm at some point.

Your reasoning/rationalizations is comical. First of all, you love to tout how the O's are only 1/2 game out of first place, as if that means something. Then, when it's pointed out to you that Toronto is in last place, you spin and spin and spin and say you're only stating "facts".

Then, and a much bigger issue, there's this:  by your own account quoted above, having to do those things IS proof that the team is in trouble. You're just slower on the uptake, apparently, than other non-homer fans.

Edited by OriginalColtsFan

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43 minutes ago, CROUSEMAN said:

If UJ and Gausman continue with their dreadful seasons, there is no doubt this team is in serious trouble.

At least you're now talking sensibly. The question is: What indication do you, or anyone else have, to think that those two ARE ever going to get it together? There's a LOT more fuel for the fire to indicate they won't.

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, ncbirdfan said:

And at some point if Gausman or UJ continue to suck it up they can be replaced. That could be done by committee or maybe some of the younger arms can establish themselves and  fill those spots. They might even look outside the organization and trade for another arm at some point.

I'm not sure how you replace Gausman because he's the one of whom big things were expected. At least with Ubaldo, the disappointments have gotten to the point where anything you get out of him is a bonus. Gausman was supposed to be part of a Big Three of Tillman and Bundy. You can possibly get by with just three dependable starters, but only two puts the rotation in a seriously compromised position. That makes it difficult to compete over the long haul. Gausman has to get his act together.

As for going outside the organization, I don't know if the Orioles have the pieces to acquire a top-flight arm, even if just on a three-month rental basis. Hell, if I were looking to trade, I'd try and shore up the bullpen and make it longer if the starters keep faltering. As someone mentioned, the Kansas City model.

Edited by mdrunning

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5 minutes ago, mdrunning said:

I'm not sure how you replace Gausman because he's the one of whom big things were expected. At least with Ubaldo, the disappointments have gotten to the point where anything you get out of him is a bonus. Gausman was supposed to be part of a Big Three of Tillman and Bundy. You can possibly get by with just three dependable starters, but only two puts the rotation in a seriously compromised position. That makes it difficult to compete over the long haul. Gausman has to get his act together.

As for going outside the organization, I don't know if the Orioles have the pieces to acquire a top-flight arm, even if just on a three-month rental basis. Hell, if I were looking to trade, I'd try and shore up the bullpen and make it longer if the starters keep faltering. As someone mentioned, the Kansas City model.

A voice of reason. +1

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1 hour ago, mdrunning said:

I'm not sure how you replace Gausman because he's the one of whom big things were expected. At least with Ubaldo, the disappointments have gotten to the point where anything you get out of him is a bonus. Gausman was supposed to be part of a Big Three of Tillman and Bundy. You can possibly get by with just three dependable starters, but only two puts the rotation in a seriously compromised position. That makes it difficult to compete over the long haul. Gausman has to get his act together.

As for going outside the organization, I don't know if the Orioles have the pieces to acquire a top-flight arm, even if just on a three-month rental basis. Hell, if I were looking to trade, I'd try and shore up the bullpen and make it longer if the starters keep faltering. As someone mentioned, the Kansas City model.

My mention of Gausman was assuming if he cannot get his act together. Gausman in current form is no use to the rotation and I haven't seen too much from him to think otherwise. And I wasn't proposing the Orioles would get a top-flight arm, but there might be some decent innings-eating pitchers out there to be had for a moderate price. All of this would be designed to keep the relief pitchers a bit healthier.

 

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3 hours ago, OriginalColtsFan said:

At least you're now talking sensibly. The question is: What indication do you, or anyone else have, to think that those two ARE ever going to get it together? There's a LOT more fuel for the fire to indicate they won't.

Absolutely none, just blind hope.  If you have followed any on my posts over the season, I have been Gausman's biggest critic.  The guy has been a pretender for most of his Oriole career.  Pitching for very good teams over his career, he has somehow been able to be under water by , what, 12 games or so below .500.  Terrible.  Oh yeah, he gets no run support :lol:.  if this season goes in the tank, he will be culprit number 1.

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1 hour ago, mdrunning said:

I'm not sure how you replace Gausman because he's the one of whom big things were expected. At least with Ubaldo, the disappointments have gotten to the point where anything you get out of him is a bonus. Gausman was supposed to be part of a Big Three of Tillman and Bundy. You can possibly get by with just three dependable starters, but only two puts the rotation in a seriously compromised position. That makes it difficult to compete over the long haul. Gausman has to get his act together.

As for going outside the organization, I don't know if the Orioles have the pieces to acquire a top-flight arm, even if just on a three-month rental basis. Hell, if I were looking to trade, I'd try and shore up the bullpen and make it longer if the starters keep faltering. As someone mentioned, the Kansas City model.

We have Edwin Jackson waiting in the wings!! ;)  That should give you and ColtsFan the tingles.:) 

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Routinely blowing sizable leads. Not a good sign. 

They're still in trouble.

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On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 10:02 PM, mlatoman said:

It's May. Let's discuss this again mid-July, shall we? 

My thoughts exactly

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On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 0:19 AM, ncbirdfan said:

Don't look now, but this team that is in trouble is only a half game out of first now.

Come on bro, the sky is falling, can't you see it. :lol:

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1 hour ago, Pickle20 said:

Routinely blowing sizable leads. Not a good sign. 

They're still in trouble.

Exactly. (Let's see how the giddy little homers respond in mid-July when the troubles become so undeniable that even their little homer-unreality can't be denied.)

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the problems

pitching

clutch hitting

Machado and Jones are banged up

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6 minutes ago, daravenator said:

the problems

pitching

clutch hitting

Machado and Jones are banged up

Another thing that's odd, is how this team never seems to fire on all cylinders. The starting pitchers will give 9 quality starts in a row. Simultaneously, the bats will go ice cold. Then the bats start to pound, and the pitchers throw batting practice. It seems like they've done that for the previous two seasons. It's really odd. 

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Outside of dumping Ubaldo, there's not much the Orioles are going to do or can do.  I guess they could try Asher in the rotation and see if he's for real over a longer sampling.  They basically have to hope Gausman becomes more consistent and Tillman eventually begins to put quality starts together.  Other than that, what you see if what you're going to get.  This will be a team of extremes, both offensively and pitching and will continue to thrill or infuriate right up until October. 

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Posted (edited)

16 hours ago, weird-O said:

Another thing that's odd, is how this team never seems to fire on all cylinders. The starting pitchers will give 9 quality starts in a row. Simultaneously, the bats will go ice cold. Then the bats start to pound, and the pitchers throw batting practice. It seems like they've done that for the previous two seasons. It's really odd. 

They've done it in the past...2012, 2014, down the stretch last year.

But when you've got injuries, and a low-OBP offense you're not going to make your own luck a whole lot and get hot all at once.

 

 

Edited by Pickle20

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This team is sinking fast.

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Posted (edited)

15 minutes ago, Slidemaster said:

This team is sinking fast.

When we were off to the hot start I said it was only a matter of time before our starting pitching is exposed. It is BAD.

The surprises for me:

1. Bundy much better than I thought he would be

2. Miley hasn't completely imploded yet (I still think he will)

3. Why the Orioles keep putting Tyler Wilson on the mound.

Nothing surprising about Ubaldo-he is one of the worst signings we have made

Maybe before DD gets out of baseball he will learn that in order to go far in the playoffs, you need a better than average starting staff. The backend of the bullpen can compensate if your staff is only average but when your staff isn't even average or below average...home runs will only get you so far.

Edited by dshawg1

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11 minutes ago, dshawg1 said:

When we were off to the hot start I said it was only a matter of time before our starting pitching is exposed. It is BAD.

The surprises for me:

1. Bundy much better than I thought he would be

2. Miley hasn't completely imploded yet (I still think he will)

3. Why the Orioles keep putting Tyler Wilson on the mound.

Nothing surprising about Ubaldo-he is one of the worst signings we have made

Maybe before DD gets out of baseball he will learn that in order to go far in the playoffs, you need a better than average starting staff. The backend of the bullpen can compensate if your staff is only average but when your staff isn't even average or below average...home runs will only get you so far.

The royals debunked this theory 

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1 hour ago, bleedingorangeandblack said:

The royals debunked this theory 

They didn't have bad starting pitching? They also had GREAT defense.

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