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dshawg1

I Guess DD should have invested some $ in starting pitching, Huh?

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His signing aging veterans seems to be backfiring.

 

 

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This is not the only problem.

The Orioles could trade Manny Machado. He still has value and could bring us a nice return. As an Oriole this year he's stinking up the place.

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Correct, most of us have been saying this for years.

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Invest in whom? The trouble isn't "investing" in starting pitchers unless, of course, you're the Red Sox or Nats and can shell out $200 million or more for the likes of David Price and Max Scherzer. The problem is the Orioles spotty track record of developing their own starters and then being forced onto the open market where they're not going to be able to compete for the upper-tier free agents. Thus they're left with the likes of Ubaldo and Gallardo. Either way, they're forced to pay market prices because they can't grow it at home.

Coming into the season, the top three of Tillman, Bundy and Gausman actually looked fairly promising. Only Bundy has lived up to those expectations so far. Tillman, while reportedly not experiencing any pain in his shoulder, can't locate his pitches and is getting launched as a result. Gausman has been somewhat better lately, but even his returning to the guy he was the second half of last season is no guarantee at this point. At times he just looks like a hard-throwing underachiever. Had all three of those guys at least performed up to their track records, things would be a looking somewhat brighter right now. 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, UTAH RAVEN said:

This is not the only problem.

The Orioles could trade Manny Machado. He still has value and could bring us a nice return. As an Oriole this year he's stinking up the place.

WBC is an issue that needs resolution. Too bad the owners refuse to shorten the season. That's the reasonable solution, back to 154.

 

mdrunning: investing means not signing aging shortstops or one dimensional bats. However, it also means not signing garbage and giving away your first rounders. It also means investing in scouting and the international market.

Edited by dshawg1

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2 minutes ago, dshawg1 said:

WBC is an issue that needs resolution. Too bad the owners refuse to shorten the season. That's the reasonable solution, back to 154.

With baseball returning to the Olympics in 2020, the WBC might become a mere memory.

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5 hours ago, mdrunning said:

The problem is the Orioles spotty track record of developing their own starters and then being forced onto the open market where they're not going to be able to compete for the upper-tier free agents. Thus they're left with the likes of Ubaldo and Gallardo. Either way, they're forced to pay market prices because they can't grow it at home.

Coming into the season, the top three of Tillman, Bundy and Gausman actually looked fairly promising. Only Bundy has lived up to those expectations so far. Tillman, while reportedly not experiencing any pain in his shoulder, can't locate his pitches and is getting launched as a result. Gausman has been somewhat better lately, but even his returning to the guy he was the second half of last season is no guarantee at this point. At times he just looks like a hard-throwing underachiever. Had all three of those guys at least performed up to their track records, things would be a looking somewhat brighter right now. 

The Orioles CAN compete with the Yanks and Red Sox for pitchers. They're just not willing to fork over market value for top flight starters. On the other hand, they'll happily fork over big bucks for strikeout prone sluggers even when they have replacements in the minors.

I gotta believe Tillman is injured.

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7 hours ago, mdrunning said:

With baseball returning to the Olympics in 2020, the WBC might become a mere memory.

Honestly, I wasn't awAre of this, thanks. College players have always played, will it be different?

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5 hours ago, JoyinMudville said:

The Orioles CAN compete with the Yanks and Red Sox for pitchers. They're just not willing to fork over market value for top flight starters. On the other hand, they'll happily fork over big bucks for strikeout prone sluggers even when they have replacements in the minors.

I gotta believe Tillman is injured.

And who might that strikeout king be? Just kidding, I already know.

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7 hours ago, JoyinMudville said:

The Orioles CAN compete with the Yanks and Red Sox for pitchers. They're just not willing to fork over market value for top flight starters. On the other hand, they'll happily fork over big bucks for strikeout prone sluggers even when they have replacements in the minors.

I gotta believe Tillman is injured.

Some of this is on Buck.  He has some pretty big input on the 25 man roster. 

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Orioles' problem right now would appear to be that the critical mass of their SP rotation consistently fails to get through even 5 IP. That sucks, and it'll torch the bullpen.

 

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You're dealing with so many variables when it comes to pitching.  Who are they going to get?  Their minor league system isn't exactly overflowing with quality prospects to use as trading leverage.  What the Orioles have to offer in that regard will only net them a middle of the road starter who will be at best, mediocre, pitching in the Camden Yards band box.  Realistically, he wouldn't be much of an upgrade over who they already have.  And the money needed to obtain a top line starter in free agency will be prohibitive as far as Angelos goes.  After the Ubaldo disaster, don't expect Petie to be backing up a truck filled with long term dollars any time soon. For this team to get an ace, they're going to have to use Machado, Jones or Schoop as trade bait.  I don't see any other way at this point. 

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1 minute ago, jamesdean said:

You're dealing with so many variables when it comes to pitching.  Who are they going to get?  Their minor league system isn't exactly overflowing with quality prospects to use as trading leverage.  What the Orioles have to offer in that regard will only net them a middle of the road starter who will be at best, mediocre, pitching in the Camden Yards band box.  Realistically, he wouldn't be much of an upgrade over who they already have.  And the money needed to obtain a top line starter in free agency will be prohibitive as far as Angelos goes.  After the Ubaldo disaster, don't expect Petie to be backing up a truck filled with long term dollars any time soon. For this team to get an ace, they're going to have to use Machado, Jones or Schoop as trade bait.  I don't see any other way at this point. 

Yeah I was looking over at mlbtraderumors and starters who may be available are the likes of Vargas and Volquez.  just what you described.

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Just now, CROUSEMAN said:

Yeah I was looking over at mlbtraderumors and starters who may be available are the likes of Vargas and Volquez.  just what you described.

Yippie 

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I guess it's gotten so sad that game threads are no longer needed.  Hey, maybe we can challenge that 30-3 game today if we really try.  Gas-man has made a good start.   Might not be able to get the three, though.:lol:

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Wait. So you mean claiming every garbage 4A pitcher off waivers by DD didn't cover us for our starting pitching?

I can't believe it....

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6 hours ago, dshawg1 said:

Honestly, I wasn't awAre of this, thanks. College players have always played, will it be different?

From what I've read, it would be collegians and minor leaguers. I doubt if baseball is willing to shut down the season for the requisite two weeks or so to complete the Games. 

There was a big flap this past winter when the NHL voted not to shut down for the 2018 Olympics, which upset a lot of players. Many of these guys, of course, are foreign-born and want to represent their countries in the Olympics. I honestly don't know at this point if any compromise can or will be reached.

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3 hours ago, CROUSEMAN said:

Some of this is on Buck.  He has some pretty big input on the 25 man roster. 

Yeah, but he can only build a 25 man roster out of the giant pile of crap that's put in front of him. 

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26 minutes ago, Thirteen said:

Yeah, but he can only build a 25 man roster out of the giant pile of crap that's put in front of him. 

Yep. Not on Buck. 

The WC game last year was on Buck.

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1 hour ago, Thirteen said:

Yeah, but he can only build a 25 man roster out of the giant pile of crap that's put in front of him. 

No he has input on the crap that comes in on the 25 man.  He only gets a fraction of blame, but he is definitely involved in the Major league talent that comes in. Who do you think pushed for Davis to be resigned - Buck was in on that.  You guys are missing it.  Buck is way more than just a manager.  Read the press release when DD was signed.  They shared a lot of the decision making on personnel.  Weird-O brought this to my attention a week or so ago.  Very enlightening.

You guys are blind to be giving Buck a pass on this roster construction.

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37 minutes ago, CROUSEMAN said:

No he has input on the crap that comes in on the 25 man.  He only gets a fraction of blame, but he is definitely involved in the Major league talent that comes in. Who do you think pushed for Davis to be resigned - Buck was in on that.  You guys are missing it.  Buck is way more than just a manager.  Read the press release when DD was signed.  They shared a lot of the decision making on personnel.  Weird-O brought this to my attention a week or so ago.  Very enlightening.

You guys are blind to be giving Buck a pass on this roster construction.

I have to agree with you here 

ugh now I have to shower lol

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44 minutes ago, bleedingorangeandblack said:

I have to agree with you here 

ugh now I have to shower lol

Alright Bleeder!  You are coming around :)

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On 6/11/2017 at 1:32 AM, mdrunning said:

With baseball returning to the Olympics in 2020, the WBC might become a mere memory.

I'm missing the connection. MLB isn't going to shut down the season for a month (two weeks of practice and two weeks of games), so that its stars can go play for their countries. And non-professional Olympic teams aren't going to draw the same excitement as the WBC teams. 

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His record with pitching moves during his time here has been nothing short of a disaster.

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