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soulflower

Trump to partially reverse trade and tourism opening with Cuba

144 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

Nope it's just a simple truth, I don't understand why you Trumpites don't get it. Oh wait, I'll bet you didn't vote for him :D.  You're not turning Cuba into a market economy democracy overnight. However more exposure to Americans could help move that along. Not really rocket science.

Not a trumpster, but I understand your need to go there when someone disagrees with you....it's a weak tactic....but I understand the need.

As you said-more exposure to americans COULD help move things along....or it could put billions of dollars in the pockets of the ruling junta.

Meanwhile the junta ratchets up the political prisoner machinery.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/americas/cuba/report-cuba/

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1 minute ago, Dr Johnny Fever said:

Not a trumpster, but I understand your need to go there when someone disagrees with you....it's a weak tactic....but I understand the need.

As you said-more exposure to americans COULD help move things along....or it could put billions of dollars in the pockets of the ruling junta.

Meanwhile the junta ratchets up the political prisoner machinery.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/americas/cuba/report-cuba/

Yep, it isn't a real nice government.  Even so, I wouldn't be opposed to some trade if the condition had been the start of meaningful political reforms in exchange for dollars.  But, we demanded nothing.

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18 minutes ago, mrsmlh said:

A republican opened the doors to china, a democrat opened the doors to cuba

It was a big deal when the US warmed relations with Vietnam in the 1990s

Trump just met with the PM of Vietnam a few days ago

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Posted (edited)

11 minutes ago, veritas said:

Yep, it isn't a real nice government.  Even so, I wouldn't be opposed to some trade if the condition had been the start of meaningful political reforms in exchange for dollars.  But, we demanded nothing.

What happens if Cuba elects a government we don't like? 

 

Hugo Chavez was elected btw 

 

There's no guarantee that the leaders they elect will be any better for relations with the US

Edited by soulflower

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Just now, soulflower said:

What happens if Cuba elects a government we don't like? 

 

Hugo Chavez was elected btw 

Yea, and look at Venezuela now.  It's a salient lesson for the Cubans, one I'm sure they've learned over the last 60 years.  Government run economy = poverty.

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19 minutes ago, veritas said:

I already answered this and China owning our debt is a huge consideration.  While China has not become a free market by any means, the average worker in what passes for its private sector makes about $500 a month compared to $150 in Vietnam and $30 in Cuba. That disparity is going to keep growing as China opens up more.  As I said above, this money will have a difficult time making its way to the average Cuban without reforms by Castro.  I'm not optimistic that any will be forthcoming.  We have to remember, this is a dirt poor nation and the government needs a cash infusion.  Our trade will give it to them while only helping a tiny fraction of the people.  

Meanwhile in the Middle East, we just approved 12 billion in Arms sales for Qatar a week after Trump accused them of being Terrorist supporters 

 

Trump's foriegn policy won't succeed because it has no consistency 

 

I didn't like GW Bush but at least he had a doctrine 

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Meanwhile, the rest of the world's tourists hope that the orange idiot keeps up with the silly US tantrum feud with Cuba, it's nice to have a Caribbean Island to go to that is American tourist, and dollar free.

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4 minutes ago, WKDWZD said:

Meanwhile, the rest of the world's tourists hope that the orange idiot keeps up with the silly US tantrum feud with Cuba, it's nice to have a Caribbean Island to go to that is American tourist, and dollar free.

Thanks. I needed a laugh (no sarcasm intended).   :)

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4 minutes ago, WKDWZD said:

Meanwhile, the rest of the world's tourists hope that the orange idiot keeps up with the silly US tantrum feud with Cuba, it's nice to have a Caribbean Island to go to that is American tourist, and dollar free.

You do realize that tourism is still allowed.

And, besides, only exposure to americans will bring the cuban people prosperity....according to some.

Why do you want the cuban people living in poverty? :lol:

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Posted (edited)

15 minutes ago, Dr Johnny Fever said:

You do realize that tourism is still allowed.

And, besides, only exposure to americans will bring the cuban people prosperity....according to some.

Why do you want the cuban people living in poverty? :lol:

Trump didn't really reverse anything. He only added more Red Tape for Americans who want to legally travel to Cuba. Traveling via Canada or Mexico is still an option 

Edited by soulflower

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1 hour ago, Dr Johnny Fever said:

Not a trumpster, but I understand your need to go there when someone disagrees with you....it's a weak tactic....but I understand the need.

As you said-more exposure to americans COULD help move things along....or it could put billions of dollars in the pockets of the ruling junta.

Meanwhile the junta ratchets up the political prisoner machinery.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/americas/cuba/report-cuba/

Do they chop off peoples' heads like they do in Saudi Arabia? No one seems to have a problem with Trump touching the mysterious orb in Riyadh but god forbid we try to open things up with our baseball loving neighbors 90 miles south of Miami.

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58 minutes ago, WKDWZD said:

Meanwhile, the rest of the world's tourists hope that the orange idiot keeps up with the silly US tantrum feud with Cuba, it's nice to have a Caribbean Island to go to that is American tourist, and dollar free.

Sadly I believe that mate

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this is interesting...

Few areas of the city have been so physically and economically transformed by the easing of U.S. travel restrictions as the touristy part of Old Havana, a major beneficiary as the number of American visitors to the island has grown threefold. Both the communist government and private entrepreneurs have been trying to get in on the gold rush. It’s been one of the few bright spots in an otherwise stagnant, state-dominated economy.

But private business owners and investors in Old Havana have been getting more than crumbs. Driven largely by a boom in Airbnb rentals, entire city blocks of decaying century-old buildings are under renovation, racing to reopen as privately owned hostels and restaurants.

Ernesto Castillo has been banking on the boom to continue. With his future Peruvian-themed restaurant still a construction site, he didn’t have time to watch Trump’s speech, but he said he had been bracing for bad news. “I expected it,” he said with a sigh.

Castillo was trying to stay optimistic: “The tourism business in Old Havana was here before the Americans came, and it’ll still be here if they’re gone.”

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It sounds like Trump didn't return us to the status quo ante but made a few changes that he then talked up as a very big deal in Miami. Essentially pandering to the voting bloc there. Whatever, the shoe will be on the other foot one day and things will return to moving forward.

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He creates a nice void for Russia to fill. 

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12 minutes ago, hst2 said:

He creates a nice void for Russia to fill. 

The russians have had 50 years to fill the void....they've been pretty slow on the uptake.

Besides, when it comes to tourism nobody does it better than americanos.

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7 hours ago, Dr Johnny Fever said:

The russians have had 50 years to fill the void....they've been pretty slow on the uptake.

Besides, when it comes to tourism nobody does it better than americanos.

Russia was a close ally of Cuba's until the early 00s. 

 

Putin is now re-engaging with Cuba. Russia is sending oil to Cuba and may re-open their military Base on the island. 

 

Under a normal President, bringing Cuba back into the geopolitical orbit of the US would be preferable to pushing them into Russia's orbit. But we don't currently have a normal President 

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On 6/16/2017 at 7:00 PM, WKDWZD said:

Meanwhile, the rest of the world's tourists hope that the orange idiot keeps up with the silly US tantrum feud with Cuba, it's nice to have a Caribbean Island to go to that is American tourist, and dollar free.

That's nice.

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