Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
VOSA

So You Say You Want UK Style Socialist MedicaI Insurance

162 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, mrsmlh said:

Thank you Papi, she would have been 21 years old this year but sometimes it feels like yesterday.  I have 2 grandsons in their 20's and a brand new granddaughter only 6 months old.  I thank God everyday for them.

I am sure that is a pain that never goes completely away, no matter how many years (and tears) pass.

My grandchildren are 13 and 9, and I worry about them and the world they will have to face all the time. But I too thank God for their good health and for the great job my daughter and her husband are doing with them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/3/2017 at 8:56 PM, Papi said:

Any government that says parents cannot take their sick child elsewhere for treatement AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE needs to have the collective middle finger raised and be told to go screw themselves. So much for the highly vaunted UK national health system. Under NO circumstances should the decision to end life support for a child be anyone's but the parents'. Screw the courts. Screw the NHS. Screw the UK government. Fight the bastards to your last breath.

Those of you who want a single payer government controlled healthcare system here - this is what it will come down to. Believe it. And FIGHT IT. 

I think I will sit this general discussion out but what Papi says here is spot on. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Calamari said:

Prove it.

I have my opinion about why parts of our society have issues. I don't need to "prove " my opinion to you or anyone else. But especially not to you. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you can't. That's what I thought. B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, WKDWZD said:

How would they achieve that? Once unhooked from the ventilator the child would be dead before it got out of the hospital gates.

Home hospice care with a ventilator until the parents make the decision to remove it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, mrsmlh said:

Because the parents refused to believe the medical professionals.

Are medical professional infallible?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, mrsmlh said:

Because the parents refused to believe the medical professionals.

List of Brain Dead Patients Who've Recovered

Quote

 

August 2016 - Nineteen days after her car flipped over, the doctors of 22-year-old Sam Hemming were about to give up on her because she was obviously “brain dead” "with no hope of recovery". Yet moments before she would likely have died from their withdrawing her care, Sam wiggling her toe. From there, fighting back, she made a tremendous recovery in only weeks. Mental and physical exercise has reprogrammed the undamaged side of her brain! 

May 2015 - In Des Moines, Iowa as reported by USA Today, "Taylor's brain sank part way into her spinal canal. No one comes back from that, the doctors told Taylor's mother, Stacy, and her father, Chuck Hale. Nothing more could be done. Their daughter was brain dead. It was time to make arrangements to take her off life support and discuss organ donation. ...  Taylor Hale, considered brain dead by science, awoke from her coma. ... " So the staff doctors will harvest organs, cut out the eyes, etc., of living children at the Des Moines Blank Children's Hospital, hereafter known as Blankity Blank Hospital.  


January 2015 - George Pickering, a 27-year old Texan, was pronounced brain dead by doctors at the Tomball Regional Medical Center when his father threatened to shoot himself if anyone disconnected his son from life support. During the standoff with police, the son repeatedly squeezed his father's hand, and then woke up later that evening, has made a strong recovery, and in April was baptized after converting to Christianity.

 

 

good thing the parents refused to believe the medical professionals :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎07‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 9:58 AM, Guido2 said:

Yes and no. If you are a rich congressmen or tycoon. Ahhhhh no. Sky's the limit. However, as we move down the medical food chain (rich---poor)....definitely.

And why is that so? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ specifically profit.

I recently met a gentlemen who is visiting from Australia and we went fishing. We talked about all sorts of things. He is pensioner (as they refer to themselves down under) so he doesn't have a lot of money. His son in law who has money flew he and his wife in. 

Anyway, he is 73 and has had several major operations....knee surgery/replacement, some heart work and so on. And I asked him....well that must have set  you back a lot of money. He said; oh no...the government paid for everything including recovery in a hospital and so on. GET THIS; his total expense...3.28 dollars American....for some pills he needed to take.

OK so how can Australia do that and the US can't? Oh and btw he said ALL Australians get the same coverage PERIOD. 

 

Everyone pays 4% of their earnings into what we call Medicare, that includes retirement income, government pensions, wages and even the Prime Minister pays 4% of his earnings.  We also have private health insurance and private hospitals.  Private health insurance is pretty cheap so a lot Aussies carry it.

With Medicare it covers 80% of doctors visits and 100% on inpatient care in a public hospital. 

I can't afford to retire at 62 and live in the States, but I can afford to retire at 62 and live in Australia just because of health care.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/5/2017 at 1:21 PM, Sprightly said:

Home hospice care with a ventilator until the parents make the decision to remove it.

Make sure you send that request into the GOP while they work on the Health Care Bill. :angry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, downunder said:

Everyone pays 4% of their earnings into what we call Medicare, that includes retirement income, government pensions, wages and even the Prime Minister pays 4% of his earnings.  We also have private health insurance and private hospitals.  Private health insurance is pretty cheap so a lot Aussies carry it.

With Medicare it covers 80% of doctors visits and 100% on inpatient care in a public hospital. 

I can't afford to retire at 62 and live in the States, but I can afford to retire at 62 and live in Australia just because of health care.

Here the National Insurance contributions are 12% of your salary upto £45,000 and 2% of salary above that. That covers 100% of doctors fees and all inpatient and outpatient care along with your government senior citizens pension at age 65. Like you we are able to retire at 65 as long as we can afford our rent/mortgages. It seems to me that many Americans have no choice but to work until they drop to be able to pay for their health care.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/3/2017 at 8:56 PM, Papi said:

Any government that says parents cannot take their sick child elsewhere for treatement AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE needs to have the collective middle finger raised and be told to go screw themselves. So much for the highly vaunted UK national health system. Under NO circumstances should the decision to end life support for a child be anyone's but the parents'. Screw the courts. Screw the NHS. Screw the UK government. Fight the bastards to your last breath.

Nicely stated.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On ‎7‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 9:58 AM, Calamari said:

Prove it.

REALLY? :rolleyes:

Ok Papi ... so should also prove that we need oxygen to live and the sun will rise tomorrow.

Squeak squeak....I never thought squid could make noises. 

Shhhessshhhh

Hey knucklehead...NEWS FLASH.......if all of what he says in NOT true......then why are all our tax $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ being spent for the poors prenatal care, etc etc. etc etc etc. etc. etc.

SMH

Edited by Guido2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, PeterRabbit said:

Nicely stated.   

Agreed!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, WKDWZD said:

Here the National Insurance contributions are 12% of your salary upto £45,000 and 2% of salary above that. That covers 100% of doctors fees and all inpatient and outpatient care along with your government senior citizens pension at age 65. Like you we are able to retire at 65 as long as we can afford our rent/mortgages. It seems to me that many Americans have no choice but to work until they drop to be able to pay for their health care.

Nice to hear confirmation from two people living half a world apart.

The US health care system sucks. 

What you say is very true. And even with Medicare ....our version....there are limits on that ....and if you need further care....well YOU MAY HAVE WORKED YOUR BUTT OFF ALL  YOUR LIFE....but in order to get any care when that is exhausted....you have to join the ranks of ALL THOSE THAT HAVE NEVER WORKED A DAY IN THEIR LIVES....and not because they had a disability.

You can't keep your home, you can't have much in anyway of cash in the bank, or other assets.

That is why I warn anyone that has an aging parent to start moving 'things' to themselves. So you can 'beat' the system. 

Kinda f'ed isn't it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, downunder said:

Everyone pays 4% of their earnings into what we call Medicare, that includes retirement income, government pensions, wages and even the Prime Minister pays 4% of his earnings.  We also have private health insurance and private hospitals.  Private health insurance is pretty cheap so a lot Aussies carry it.

With Medicare it covers 80% of doctors visits and 100% on inpatient care in a public hospital. 

I can't afford to retire at 62 and live in the States, but I can afford to retire at 62 and live in Australia just because of health care.

Are they still accepting people to become permanent citizens? I am hoping to visit real soon to check what seems like a very nice country.

Guns laws don't sound so great.....but I live in Maryland....so it should be an easy transition. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Guido2 said:

Are they still accepting people to become permanent citizens? I am hoping to visit real soon to check what seems like a very nice country.

Guns laws don't sound so great.....but I live in Maryland....so it should be an easy transition. :lol:

yes, our healthcare does suck....having lived in England and Germany, I know how their universal care system works....

go add up what you pay in to medicare (1,45%), your health insurance premiums, co-pays and deductibles then divide that number by your salary...what the average american pays for healthcare comes in somewhere between 14-25% for healthcare....have to keep those CEOs and middlemen happy......

based on my experience, you'd love Australia.....the people there are friendly and very civil.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, WKDWZD said:

Here the National Insurance contributions are 12% of your salary upto £45,000 and 2% of salary above that. That covers 100% of doctors fees and all inpatient and outpatient care along with your government senior citizens pension at age 65. Like you we are able to retire at 65 as long as we can afford our rent/mortgages. It seems to me that many Americans have no choice but to work until they drop to be able to pay for their health care.

I don't know if you know this, but we pay 6.2% of our salary for Social Security (senior citizens pension) up until $127,000, and our employers pay another 6.2%. So 12.4% gets paid for any income under $127,000.

We also pay 1.45% for Medicare (it is higher if you make more than $200,000 individually), and so does the employer. So 2.9% gets paid in there.

A lot of us have no idea how much is actually being paid because we often have employer-subsidized insurance. We may only pay $500/month but our employer could be paying one or two times as much as that (this varies greatly by employer and insurance). So let's say they pay the same and we end up "really" paying in $1,000/month.

Let's assume the median household income is about $50,000. About 25% of salary (including employer contributions) are paid into medical insurance over a year at $1,000/month. And that doesn't include anything that costs if we actually use the insurance (deductibles, co-pays, our percentage share of the service).

So our medical care and Social Security end up totaling 12.4% + 2.9% + 25% = 40.3% of the median household income. And you're saying you guys get roughly the same thing for about 12% of the same income level in the UK.

We are doing it wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got into the habit of scrolling thru the Daily Mail at lunchtime. Almost every day they have some Horror story with the UK Med system somewhere over there. From what I read seems like they Subsidize loads of people in the UK even compared to here and They're going Broke because of it. I get a kick out of their News along with the National Enquirer type stories they run. Just like to see how they cover stuff other than how we do Here. They had stories a few weeks ago about the Scorcher Temps there hitting the 80's when we were here the other week in the 90's. Made me chuckle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, bmorepunk said:

I don't know if you know this, but we pay 6.2% of our salary for Social Security (senior citizens pension) up until $127,000, and our employers pay another 6.2%. So 12.4% gets paid for any income under $127,000.

We also pay 1.45% for Medicare (it is higher if you make more than $200,000 individually), and so does the employer. So 2.9% gets paid in there.

A lot of us have no idea how much is actually being paid because we often have employer-subsidized insurance. We may only pay $500/month but our employer could be paying one or two times as much as that (this varies greatly by employer and insurance). So let's say they pay the same and we end up "really" paying in $1,000/month.

Let's assume the median household income is about $50,000. About 25% of salary (including employer contributions) are paid into medical insurance over a year at $1,000/month. And that doesn't include anything that costs if we actually use the insurance (deductibles, co-pays, our percentage share of the service).

So our medical care and Social Security end up totaling 12.4% + 2.9% + 25% = 40.3% of the median household income. And you're saying you guys get roughly the same thing for about 12% of the same income level in the UK.

We are doing it wrong.

 

To be fair, I should have mentioned that our employers also pay a similar amount to our own contribution.

What you are doing wrong is not only letting insurance companies and big pharma rip you off but more to the point, you all seem happy to defend them and let them do it. :unsure:

Edited by WKDWZD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Bartman said:

Got into the habit of scrolling thru the Daily Mail at lunchtime. Almost every day they have some Horror story with the UK Med system somewhere over there. From what I read seems like they Subsidize loads of people in the UK even compared to here and They're going Broke because of it. I get a kick out of their News along with the National Enquirer type stories they run. Just like to see how they cover stuff other than how we do Here. They had stories a few weeks ago about the Scorcher Temps there hitting the 80's when we were here the other week in the 90's. Made me chuckle.

The Daily Mail is a sensationalising rag, only really good for arse wiping, believe it at your peril. ;)

The temperature at London Heathrow airport on June 21st was 34.5°C - that's 94.1°F to you. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, bmorepunk said:

I don't know if you know this, but we pay 6.2% of our salary for Social Security (senior citizens pension) up until $127,000, and our employers pay another 6.2%. So 12.4% gets paid for any income under $127,000.

We also pay 1.45% for Medicare (it is higher if you make more than $200,000 individually), and so does the employer. So 2.9% gets paid in there.

A lot of us have no idea how much is actually being paid because we often have employer-subsidized insurance. We may only pay $500/month but our employer could be paying one or two times as much as that (this varies greatly by employer and insurance). So let's say they pay the same and we end up "really" paying in $1,000/month.

Let's assume the median household income is about $50,000. About 25% of salary (including employer contributions) are paid into medical insurance over a year at $1,000/month. And that doesn't include anything that costs if we actually use the insurance (deductibles, co-pays, our percentage share of the service).

So our medical care and Social Security end up totaling 12.4% + 2.9% + 25% = 40.3% of the median household income. And you're saying you guys get roughly the same thing for about 12% of the same income level in the UK.

We are doing it wrong.

People in the U.K. are struggling in retirement and are working well into their 70s to survive. It's not only an American problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Sprightly said:

People in the U.K. are struggling in retirement and are working well into their 70s to survive. It's not only an American problem.

I have to be honest,  I don't know of any, other than those that have their own business's or otherwise want to. I'm 71 years old and not anyone special, but I retired at 60. I played lawn bowls yesterday with 40+ other bowlers, all of whom were retired. Sure some of them might well not have been very flush with wealth but they were all retired. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Sprightly said:

People in the U.K. are struggling in retirement and are working well into their 70s to survive. It's not only an American problem.

I think, based on some rough numbers I found, that their basic state pension is roughly half of what the average/median Social Security amount is. SS isn't a lot and half of that is obviously even less. There is probably some offset there because of Medicare costing real money to the users, but our overall system pays out more. But when over 12% of our pay gets dumped into it I would hope it would.

I save and invest a lot of money, and I'm fortunate to have the household income to be really aggressive about it for myself and my wife. I want to be able to be retired by 60 so that I'll only keep working if I'm liking it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, WKDWZD said:

I have to be honest,  I don't know of any, other than those that have their own business's or otherwise want to. I'm 71 years old and not anyone special, but I retired at 60. I played lawn bowls yesterday with 40+ other bowlers, all of whom were retired. Sure some of them might well not have been very flush with wealth but they were all retired. :)

It's really not important that we personally know of anyone struggling in retirement or unable to retire because they can't afford to do so.  But I know of some here in this country. Some of them are our clients. And this problem exists in your country as well. One similar theme is people who could not/did not plan for their retirement and cannot afford retirement so they continue to earn an income. The lesson here is not to depend on the government for your future well-being.

This is a series on retirement in the U.K.  It's an interesting read if you so desire.

https://www.theguardian.com/membership/2017/jan/23/saving-retirement-pension-generation-old-age

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0