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pitbull

Zach Davies & Ariel Miranda

51 posts in this topic

Davies has 10 wins at the All-Star break for Brewers.

Miranda has a 4.15 ERA for Seattle and seven wins.

They'd look nice in our rotation, wouldn't they?

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Posted (edited)

Hey, Gerardo Parra is hitting .335.  That wasn't such a bad trade.  :P

Edited by Thirteen

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Davies has a 1.459 WHIP and a 4.90 ERA. And that's in the very weak NLc. Imagine if he had to pitch in the ALe, or generally face a DH rather than a pitcher. With numbers like those, I'm guessing his offense has had more to do with those 10 wins, than he did.

The thing about the Miley for Miranda deal is, even if they had the same stats, I'd take Miranda, because he's less expensive, and more controllable. I don't think his numbers would look as good, in the east. But I'm confident they'd look better than Miley.

I was opposed to both trades. But at least the Parra - Davies trade hasn't stung the O's. Miley - Miranda requires an explanation. Because only a desperate fool would have acquired him. And DD can't even use the "I was desperate" excuse, since he tried to acquire Miley the previous winter (or was it the previous year's trade deadline?).  

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Davies' game log for the season in sort of fascinating if you look at it.  He's pitched 5+ in 17 straight starts, and has at least pitched IN to the 5th in all 18 starts so far.  His ERA over the last 14 starts is 4.06 (his ERA was sky high after 4 starts in April, been gradually working down since).  Not awful, not great.  Agree he would probably not be anywhere near 10-4 if he was making every 5th start for the Orioles though.

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Posted (edited)

Should have kept Mark Reynolds too. :P

In seriousness those were both horrible trades and we've always said as much. Not sure what else can be added to the conversation.

Edited by Pickle20

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8 minutes ago, Pickle20 said:

In seriousness those were both horrible trades and we've always said as much. Not sure what else can be added to the conversation.

We never gave either pitcher a shot!!!

Clearly, two other Major League teams saw they could be quality Major League starters.

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Posted (edited)

You should almost never trade away quality young pitching arms unless completely necessary. Duquette seems to think it's the norm not the exception. Inexcusable really  

Maybe I'll give him a pass on Eduardo Rodriguez for Andrew Miller, again maybe, but that's it.  Duquette is an idiot. 

Edited by BayAreaBmore

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Posted (edited)

I can understand trading a Davies when you're in legit contention but he traded him for Parra when the O's were 51-50 and 3 games back of the WC. Parra wasn't going to move the needle, so just keep the pitching prospect.

He basically did the same thing for K-Rod in 2013. Traded Nick Delmonico who up to that point, had been a decent prospect, albeit still in A-ball. 

Miley had a 5 ERA in Safeco, what did Danny Boy think he was going to do in OPACY? 

Miranda has been a surprise, but when you're trading for a Wade Miley, you're basically making a lateral move regardless who you're trading. Wade Miley has basically given us the same performance that a Wilson or Wright could have given you. Meanwhile, Miranda is a LHP, younger and cheaper.

The pathetic thing is we're bemoaning the loss of these mediocre pitchers who aren't very good anyway. Davies has an ERA of 4.90 in the NL and Miranda is pretty bad away from Safeco. Chances are they wouldn't be much better here.

Edited by Pickle20

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1 hour ago, pitbull said:

We never gave either pitcher a shot!!!

Clearly, two other Major League teams saw they could be quality Major League starters.

We never gave them a shot???? 

Dude we give everyone with a pulse a shot 

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7 hours ago, weird-O said:

Davies has a 1.459 WHIP and a 4.90 ERA. And that's in the very weak NLc. Imagine if he had to pitch in the ALe, or generally face a DH rather than a pitcher. With numbers like those, I'm guessing his offense has had more to do with those 10 wins, than he did.

The thing about the Miley for Miranda deal is, even if they had the same stats, I'd take Miranda, because he's less expensive, and more controllable. I don't think his numbers would look as good, in the east. But I'm confident they'd look better than Miley.

I was opposed to both trades. But at least the Parra - Davies trade hasn't stung the O's. Miley - Miranda requires an explanation. Because only a desperate fool would have acquired him. And DD can't even use the "I was desperate" excuse, since he tried to acquire Miley the previous winter (or was it the previous year's trade deadline?).  

Maune you can help me understand why pitchers like Miranda, Davies, Bridwell, etc are the brought up as failures of DD when they stunk im the minor leagues but when we call up the Wrights and Wilsons of the world who actually perform at the lower levels get the call its a million threads about how they stink

 

The 3 names above stunk and were traded to help at the time a team competing for a playoff spot. Miranda is the only one i have questions about not because Miley sucks but because we bailed on a young lefty 

 

I guess youre screwed either way with some people 

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Jake Arietta was a scrub too.

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21 minutes ago, dshawg1 said:

Jake Arietta was a scrub too.

Men lie 

Women lie 

Numbers dont 

20 W 25 L over 5 era 

But i know had we held onto him there would be a thread in his honor about why are we wasting our time 

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Miranda is at least looking like a major league pitcher, but take a closer look at his numbers. His home/away splits are pretty pronounced. In nine home starts, he's posted a 3.23 ERA in just over 61 IP. In his nine starts away from home, however, he's checking in with a 5.48 ERA in just over 42 IP (meaning he's getting knocked out of the box quicker) with a .252 BA against as opposed to just .190 at home.

Miranda has definitely been a beneficiary of pitcher-friendly Seattle. I doubt if his numbers would look as good if he were pitching half his games in Camden Yards.

Obviously this trade has not worked out as hoped, and Dan Duquette is responsible for that. What this trade is not about, however, is The One That Got Away. It was probably a deal the Orioles had to make, given that they had no lefthanded starters, but there was nothing in Miley's past history against the AL East to suggest that he was the answer. Miranda wasn't your typical prospect: he's now 28 years old and certainly doesn't have the unlimited upside of someone five or six years younger. It was also the kind of deal the Orioles could make, given the paucity of bona fide prospects in their system.

What makes this a bad trade isn't so much about performance on the field, but money. (Dan Connolly touched on this in a recent column.) Assuming they don't pick up his option, the Orioles will have paid Miley over $11 million for a lot of lousy starts. Conversely, they could have paid someone else--in this case, Miranda--the major league minimum to at least see if he could help from the fifth spot in the rotation. Either way, had they dealt for Miley or kept Miranda, it wasn't going to put the Orioles over the top, but where there has been an impact is on the balance sheet since that was money which could have been put to use elsewhere.

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1 hour ago, mdrunning said:

Miranda is at least looking like a major league pitcher, but take a closer look at his numbers. His home/away splits are pretty pronounced. In nine home starts, he's posted a 3.23 ERA in just over 61 IP. In his nine starts away from home, however, he's checking in with a 5.48 ERA in just over 42 IP (meaning he's getting knocked out of the box quicker) with a .252 BA against as opposed to just .190 at home.

Miranda has definitely been a beneficiary of pitcher-friendly Seattle. I doubt if his numbers would look as good if he were pitching half his games in Camden Yards.

Obviously this trade has not worked out as hoped, and Dan Duquette is responsible for that. What this trade is not about, however, is The One That Got Away. It was probably a deal the Orioles had to make, given that they had no lefthanded starters, but there was nothing in Miley's past history against the AL East to suggest that he was the answer. Miranda wasn't your typical prospect: he's now 28 years old and certainly doesn't have the unlimited upside of someone five or six years younger. It was also the kind of deal the Orioles could make, given the paucity of bona fide prospects in their system.

What makes this a bad trade isn't so much about performance on the field, but money. (Dan Connolly touched on this in a recent column.) Assuming they don't pick up his option, the Orioles will have paid Miley over $11 million for a lot of lousy starts. Conversely, they could have paid someone else--in this case, Miranda--the major league minimum to at least see if he could help from the fifth spot in the rotation. Either way, had they dealt for Miley or kept Miranda, it wasn't going to put the Orioles over the top, but where there has been an impact is on the balance sheet since that was money which could have been put to use elsewhere.

But had Miranda put up Miley numbers we'd have a thread about it ?

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On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 4:15 PM, bleedingorangeandblack said:

We never gave them a shot???? 

Dude we give everyone with a pulse a shot 

Without researching it, I recall Miranda maybe pitching a few innings in middle relief. Perhaps one start?

I don't recall Davies being at the Big League level for us.

Do you remember differently?

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20 minutes ago, pitbull said:

Without researching it, I recall Miranda maybe pitching a few innings in middle relief. Perhaps one start?

I don't recall Davies being at the Big League level for us.

Do you remember differently?

I dont think Davies ever came up but i would have to look to see why (ie numbers etc) 

Miranda im with most where we had a young lefty may as well used him instead of Miley whos numbers showed what he is

 

 

BTW where is the outrage for one TJ McFarland

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Posted (edited)

Both pitchers will win the Cy Young Award in each league respectively and take their respective teams to the World Series. What was Duquette thinking!!!:o

Edited by ncbirdfan

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3 minutes ago, ncbirdfan said:

Both pitchers will win the Cy Young Award in each league respectively and take their respective temas to the World Series. What was Duquette thinking!!!:o

There would be a meltdown if that happened 

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47 minutes ago, pitbull said:

Without researching it, I recall Miranda maybe pitching a few innings in middle relief. Perhaps one start?

I don't recall Davies being at the Big League level for us.

Do you remember differently?

Davies made it to Bowie, and had a good season with them. I think he was able to make it to the big leagues faster with MIL, because they weren't a contending team. So they had the flexibility to work through the growing pains, without impacting their chance to contend. 

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Posted (edited)

10 minutes ago, weird-O said:

Davies made it to Bowie, and had a good season with them. I think he was able to make it to the big leagues faster with MIL, because they weren't a contending team. So they had the flexibility to work through the growing pains, without impacting their chance to contend. 

Yeah...but the Orioles, even as a contending team were running out 5+ ERA guys like Wilson and Wright and Ubaldo in the past. Davies would have fulfilled a need just as he did in Milwaukee. Which is why it pissed me off that we never gave Miranda a chance. You were giving starts to Ubaldo, Wright and Wilson, who were all terrible. Despaigne, too. Might as well seen what Miranda really had before you traded him and not the 2 IP they gave him in relief.

Edited by Pickle20

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2 hours ago, Pickle20 said:

Yeah...but the Orioles, even as a contending team were running out 5+ ERA guys like Wilson and Wright and Ubaldo in the past. Davies would have fulfilled a need just as he did in Milwaukee. Which is why it pissed me off that we never gave Miranda a chance. You were giving starts to Ubaldo, Wright and Wilson, who were all terrible. Despaigne, too. Might as well seen what Miranda really had before you traded him and not the 2 IP they gave him in relief.

If memory serves, ZD was still pretty raw at the time. Wright and Wilson, who both made their MLB debuts in May that year, were more polished pitchers. And both ranked ahead of ZD, in the org chart. Miranda was in the instructional league and Despaigne didn't come to Baltimore until 2016. For what it's worth, he didn't start any games for the O's. And while we now know who Wright and Wilson are, at the time, it looked like the O's had something in those two. Wright burst onto the scene, but had a hard time adjusting, after the league figured him out. Wilson finished that season with numbers that looked like he had potential. Wright was also intriguing, because DD was fielding inquiries about his availability. Also, unless you're talking about specific dates within the 2015 season, all the O's starters finished that season with ERAs below 5.00. The rotation was pretty well set with Chen, (who had a career year),Tillman, Gonzo, Gausman (who finally got into the rotation after Bud was traded), and UJ (who was having the best season he would see in Baltimore).      

 

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42 minutes ago, Pickle20 said:

Im talking about last year.

I was talking about 2015. No wonder our details weren't matching. I don't think ZD would fair as well as he has so far, if he had been kept and brought up to Baltimore. But I would have preferred to see it happen, and confirm my suspicions, rather than to just give him away.  

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Posted (edited)

The only time I seem to remember seeing Miranda pitch for us was in the final game of that weekend disaster last year in Seattle. He wasn't great, but he wasn't the only one.

Miranda wasn't a great prospect, but the Orioles had given him a 750K bonus, which is an emir's ransom for them. You'd think they'd have waited a bit longer to see if they might get something resembling their money's worth.

Edited by mdrunning

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