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Heisenberg

Majority of Republicans now say colleges are bad for America

373 posts in this topic

17 hours ago, Calamari said:

The biggest threat to continuing Republican dominance is the development of critical thinking skills and the acquisition of knowledge about how the world works.

The biggest boon to the possibilty of Democrats retaking dominance is the opportunity to use the education system to brainwash students with progressive propaganda and lies. Censoring freedom of speech on college campuses, shouting down any and every conservative speaker, and creating "safe spaces" so that poor widdle baby liberals can be insulated from the reality of the big bad world are just part of the plan. :rolleyes:

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2 minutes ago, alienrace said:

Sorry, but this is simply not true  I attended college in the 1980's, and I have 3 step daughters currently in college.  I am speaking from the perspective of PERSONAL EXPERIENCE

A LOT has changed. 

I don't get my information from Fox News, or any other conservative source.  I don't watch Fox news...at all.  I actually watch CNN.  But I digress...

 

 

An "Orwellian Propaganda Machine".

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1 minute ago, Guido2 said:

To be honest .... IMHO....this liberal 'think' that people 'believe' is rampant may have some merit. 

BUT I think a lot depends on which school you go to. Now this is just my experience...mileage will vary

I attended Glassboro State College and graduated in 1975. At the time it was basically a liberal arts/teacher college. And ohhhh boy...there were all sorts of liberal type protests. Now, spin ahead, GSC is no longer a college but is now Rowan University. It's focus is NOW on hard science (IT, Engineering, Chemistry, hard science research and so on).

I went back for an advanced degree in Computer Science/IT in the 80's to Rowan. Lots of poop going on then too. Were there protests, sit ins, liberal agenda meetings. NOPE. Everybody was too busy studying or creating a proto-type in the labs or testing out computer algorithms. 

So.... left brain....right brain. Simple. Just depends on which college you go to ....to achieve or observe critical mass. 

What you said rings true - but something should be added.  Things do change, and you're very correct that in the 60's and 70's there were a lot of protests and a lot of social causes/consciousness, that really went dormant during the 80's and 90's. 

There is something different now though.  Back in those days, it was driven by the students, though obviously some professors would champion various causes. 

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1 minute ago, Papi said:

The biggest boon to the possibilty of Democrats retaking dominance is the opportunity to use the education system to brainwash students with progressive propaganda and lies. Censoring freedom of speech on college campuses, shouting down any and every conservative speaker, and creating "safe spaces" so that poor widdle baby liberals can be insulated from the reality of the big bad world are just part of the plan. :rolleyes:

Damn, you have figured it out. 

What is, perhaps, saddest about this, is the right-wings lack of faith in young people to make decisions for themselves.

But they are simply so afraid of ideas that don't conform to their own they lose any sense of perspective they might have had.

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3 minutes ago, Papi said:

The biggest boon to the possibilty of Democrats retaking dominance is the opportunity to use the education system to brainwash students with progressive propaganda and lies. Censoring freedom of speech on college campuses, shouting down any and every conservative speaker, and creating "safe spaces" so that poor widdle baby liberals can be insulated from the reality of the big bad world are just part of the plan. :rolleyes:

^Rightwing propaganda 

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Meanwhile:

"The Koch brothers are supersizing their already hefty investments into college students’ hearts and minds. A pair of private foundations led by the billionaire industrialists poured more than $23.4 million into U.S. colleges and universities during 2014, according to a Center for Public Integrity analysis of tax documents recently filed with the Internal Revenue Service.

That’s several million dollars more than the $19.3 million the Charles Koch Foundation and Fred C. and Mary R. Koch Foundation together spread among schools during 2013 — and nearly double the $12.7 million they spent in 2012.

This increased funding in 2014 follows a recent Center for Public Integrity investigation that revealed the Koch brothers, Charles and David, consider the higher educational programs they fund a “fully integrated” part of a massive organizational network fighting to enact deregulatory government policies and elect conservative political candidates."

Link

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8 minutes ago, alienrace said:

Sorry, but this is simply not true  I attended college in the 1980's, and I have 3 step daughters currently in college.  I am speaking from the perspective of PERSONAL EXPERIENCE

A LOT has changed. 

I don't get my information from Fox News, or any other conservative source.  I don't watch Fox news...at all.  I actually watch CNN.  But I digress...

 

 

I asked for examples. I'm still waiting

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2 minutes ago, soulflower said:

^Rightwing propaganda 

No, just truth that liberals deny.

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2 minutes ago, alienrace said:

What you said rings true - but something should be added.  Things do change, and you're very correct that in the 60's and 70's there were a lot of protests and a lot of social causes/consciousness, that really went dormant during the 80's and 90's. 

There is something different now though.  Back in those days, it was driven by the students, though obviously some professors would champion various causes. 

Interesting point.....was the 80/90s the 'me' generation across the board. Some went disco some buried themselves in the lab.....I am geeking....go away ... became acceptable. 

I don't think you really completed your thought. in the last line.....different now.....back...driven.

I get the impression you meant to wrap up your statement with a 'but here an now'. Or did I miss it?

Not busting....just wondering....nice to have a decent conversation. 

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Right wing talking points never make sense. "Indoctrination" is typical of this. As if college kids are blank slates with no thoughts of their own. :rolleyes: Smh...

 

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3 minutes ago, Guido2 said:

Interesting point.....was the 80/90s the 'me' generation across the board. Some went disco some buried themselves in the lab.....I am geeking....go away ... became acceptable. 

I don't think you really completed your thought. in the last line.....different now.....back...driven.

I get the impression you meant to wrap up your statement with a 'but here an now'. Or did I miss it?

Not busting....just wondering....nice to have a decent conversation. 

Disco in the 80s/90s??

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3 minutes ago, hst2 said:

Damn, you have figured it out. 

What is, perhaps, saddest about this, is the right-wings lack of faith in young people to make decisions for themselves.

But they are simply so afraid of ideas that don't conform to their own they lose any sense of perspective they might have had.

Physical and mental intimidation tactics against young people who try to make decisions for themselves that don't conform to the progressive ideology being marketed on many college campuses are a sad fact of life. It takes place both in the classroom and elsewhere on campus. 

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12 minutes ago, Papi said:

The biggest boon to the possibilty of Democrats retaking dominance is the opportunity to use the education system to brainwash students with progressive propaganda and lies. Censoring freedom of speech on college campuses, shouting down any and every conservative speaker, and creating "safe spaces" so that poor widdle baby liberals can be insulated from the reality of the big bad world are just part of the plan. :rolleyes:

I agree. My neighbors are pissed. Before their daughter went to college she was a right-wing conservative just like them. Now after only three years of this indoctrination she thinks people should be given equal opportunities and even has friends who are black and/or Hispanic of which she speaks highly. And they never once heard her say anything derogatory about Muslims either.

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1 minute ago, Papi said:

Physical and mental intimidation tactics against young people who try to make decisions for themselves that don't conform to the progressive ideology being marketed on many college campuses are a sad fact of life. It takes place both in the classroom and elsewhere on campus. 

Have any specific examples of this?

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5 minutes ago, Marshan Man said:

Disco in the 80s/90s??

Except for areas really close to NY and whatever they were doing at the time...techno pop? I dunno.....

In the rest of NJ.....yah Disco was still hot. What can I say. Heck we still had the mafia. :lol:

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11 minutes ago, Marshan Man said:

Right wing talking points never make sense. "Indoctrination" is typical of this. As if college kids are blank slates with no thoughts of their own. :rolleyes: Smh...

 

It never needs to make sense for Rightwingers to believe it to be true

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Posted (edited)

With the way college costs have skyrocketed. The stories of students being in debt so bad they have to live with there parents, overall poor pay for a BA/BS degree is about equivalent to a HS graduate years ago....and so on.

IMHO I think 4 year colleges maybe at a tipping point. Oh yes Yale, Harvard, Rutgers, UM@CP may go on to service the elite and select few. But the remainder of colleges?

As someone early pointed out.....Community colleges are fast becoming an economical way of getting the information one needs to 'DO A JOB'. No bs.....required lit, history etc. classes. Yes those things may make a person more well rounded....but it doesn't put food on the table. 

Also...now in the category of what is old is new again. A number of counties that 'threw away' vo-tech programs (plumbing, electicity, HVAC) are making a come back. Why?

Simple; you graduate....you get an apprenticeship....you start making money immediately. In most any of the categories I mentioned....an apprentice can make 24-30000 a year plus bennies. After a year or two (while still making money) they can become journeymen and make 60-80000. And a lot more!

Tell me of a brand new teacher making that kind of money? 

These 'wrench turners' are making money and advancing their careers while the potential college graduate is contemplating the importance of social reflection and its impact.... per the profs assignment. 

So who is the numbskull....the idiot with crack pants or the idiot with the cracked bank account?

Edited by Guido2

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Posted (edited)

36 minutes ago, Marshan Man said:

Right wing talking points never make sense. "Indoctrination" is typical of this. As if college kids are blank slates with no thoughts of their own. :rolleyes: Smh...

 

How insulting is it for right wingers to insinuate that students that work hard to get ahead in the world can't think for themselves. 

Edited by Heisenberg

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3 minutes ago, Heisenberg said:

How insulting is it for right wingers to insinuate that students that work hard to get ahead in the world can't think for themselves. 

I wonder if they feel the same when it comes to young people who decide to go into the military? Somehow I doubt they do. Phonies...

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3 minutes ago, Heisenberg said:

How insulting is it for right wingers to insinuate that students that work hard to get ahead in the world can't think for themselves. 

It goes beyond insulting college students.

It speaks to teh Right's new-found license to hate intellectuals, education, 'book-learning' and the Professions.

Granted, the trades and other 'dirty jobs' have taken it on the chin in recent decades.  Generally portrayed by the media as oafs and morons, the working class is right to rebel.

But going all 'Cultural Revolution' on America's professional class won't solve anything either.  Can the Trump revolution be seen as anything but a rebellion against the 'upper classes' that have made unpopular political decisions for so long??

Of course, America needs all of us... all our work... all our professions.  We need to re-learn to appreciate each other and respect work that we may not perform ourselves.  This infighting among the '90%' will do nothing but place us in the 'loving hands' of the financial elite.

'The Right' has lost it's way.  It has gotten into bed with America's enemies and has awakened with fleas.  There is and will be much denial, then anger.  The best thing 'the left' can do is to clearly focus on the basics... of liberalism, of patriotism, of compassion... and give the Right space to deal with their big mistake.

Trump and his minions will be prosecuted.  The 'long knives' will come out.  Some will go to prison, others into exile.

The sooner this purge takes place, the better.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, ncbirdfan said:

Have any specific examples of this?

Many have been discussed on this forum over the past year or so. There have been news reports about things such as Young Republican clubs having to fight efforts to push them off campus or otherwise harassed. And then of course there are the Berkley incidents. 

It's not just my opinion. The following opinion column appeared early this year in the Washington Post (giving some degree of credibility to the notion):

 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjNoa2U44HVAhVIdD4KHTciASQQFghAMAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fopinions%2Fliberal-but-not-tolerant-on-the-nations-college-campuses%2F2016%2F02%2F11%2F0f79e8e8-d101-11e5-88cd-753e80cd29ad_story.html&usg=AFQjCNELKZ6qLgcsurbd-qRf8EqYPwD8Vg

Edited by Papi

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6 hours ago, ivanbalt said:

 

Please explain how colleges are indoctrinating people.  I must have missed those courses while I got my degrees.

Perhaps by not supporting "free speech" unless it is a subject/person/idea that is appropriately liberal. To be fair, most of those were examples of cancellations due to fear of potentially violent protests but it seems likely to me that part of that fear stems from the overall atmosphere of the campus. 

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4 minutes ago, Papi said:

Many have been discussed on this forum over the past year or so. There have been news reports about things such as Young Republican clubs having to fight efforts to push them off campus or otherwise harsassed. And then of course there are the Berkley incidents. 

It's not just my opinion. The following opinion column appeared early this year in the Washington Post (giving some degree of credibility to the notion):

 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjNoa2U44HVAhVIdD4KHTciASQQFghAMAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fopinions%2Fliberal-but-not-tolerant-on-the-nations-college-campuses%2F2016%2F02%2F11%2F0f79e8e8-d101-11e5-88cd-753e80cd29ad_story.html&usg=AFQjCNELKZ6qLgcsurbd-qRf8EqYPwD8Vg

The interesting point about this story is, it isn't the college or professors who are too liberal, or intolerant of racist/sexist speech, but the students themselves.

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Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, Rael said:

Perhaps by not supporting "free speech" unless it is a subject/person/idea that is appropriately liberal. To be fair, most of those were examples of cancellations due to fear of potentially violent protests but it seems likely to me that part of that fear stems from the overall atmosphere of the campus. 

Free speech is as much a trojan horse of the alt right to provoke college campuses as it is for the left on campuses.  This is the effect social media like facebook is having on society. Everybody needs to get a life.

Edited by zenwalk

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Just now, zenwalk said:

Free speech is as much trojan horse of the alt right to provoke college campuses as it is for the left on campuses.  This is the effect social media like facebook are having on society. Everybody needs to get a life.

Here is a decent article: I agree with you regarding the role of social media. 

https://www.jamesgmartin.center/2017/01/letter-conservatives-need-college-college-definitely-needs/

The truth is, it is not just the case that you need college. Colleges also desperately need you. Leftist academics accuse conservatives of not sufficiently supporting science but turn a blind eye to their postmodernist colleagues who reject the entire scientific enterprise. Many of the concepts campus progressives are obsessed with such as stereotype threat, implicit bias, and microaggressions have not stood up well to empirical scrutiny but remain the foundation of social justice-oriented training programs on campus.

Progressive groupthink has set in and at many universities the line between education and re-education is disappearing. At some colleges, students can earn a history degree without ever taking a class in U.S. history. Some universities are considering dropping required math courses and adding classes in diversity studies that take an exclusively leftist point of view. Teaching males how to deconstruct their “toxic masculinity” is all the rage.

The campus safe space movement is being aggressively used to suppress freedom of speech, particularly speech that challenges leftist orthodoxy. And, in certain fields, scholars seem to care more about engineering the social world than actually studying and understanding it. Having more conservatives involved in university life and scholarship would help restore some order to the academic universe.

 

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