Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
OriginalColtsFan

Meet the new 2nd half O's, same as the 2nd half of the first half O's

87 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, CROUSEMAN said:

?????  Not sure what u are saying, but Wallace and Chiti are not the major league pitching coaches in ATL. Check the O's pitching numbers from 2014-2016 against 2017.  Wallace and Chiti turned DD's water into wine, LOL!!!   ANd how does DD repay them?  He sides with Brady and disses them on the way out the door.!!  DD is a moron when it comes to anything related to pitching.  And Brady is clueless as well. 

I don't think that decision rested solely with Duquette since Brady also appears to have an in with both Showalter and Angelos. 

Wallace and Chiti left last year of their own volition, due in part to what they saw as Anderson's rising influence and interference. Wallace had planned to retire from major league coaching regardless, but resisted overtures from the Orioles to remain in the organization. 

Quote

Wallace said that he had planned to retire from major-league coaching, but that Anderson was part of the reason he resisted overtures to remain with the Orioles in a player-development role.

Chiti said, “I’m not going to deny that Brady was part of why I left,” but declined further comment.

Some of the Orioles players--most notably Adam Jones--swear by Brady, but others, including Matt Wieters, weren't particularly fond of Anderson having a locker in the inner sanctum of the clubhouse.

 

Quote

 

“A baseball clubhouse is always going to be something that players want to keep locked down as much as possible. That’s where it’s a fine line,” said former Orioles catcher Matt Wieters, who recently ended his eight-year tenure with the club by signing a free-agent contract with the Nationals.

“Brady was a great player for a long time. He was a member of that clubhouse. At the same time, when you get into the season, the 25 guys in that clubhouse are who you want in that clubhouse.

 

It isn't clear whether Brady is a cure or a cancer. What is clear, however, with Brady Anderson being in a position of total autonomy and no accountability, that's going to cause problems because it's unclear just whose interests he's truly serving.

 

Edited by mdrunning

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, mdrunning said:

As I said in the above post, I really wonder how much difference a pitching coach makes sometimes. These guys tend to bounce around from team to team, particularly if there's a managerial change, but they all really teach and preach the same things. The Orioles were Dave Wallace's sixth or seventh organization when he came here, which isn't a reflection on him; oftentimes organizational changes compel these guys to move on if they want to stay in baseball.

People talk about the importance of continuity, but that's just not the nature of major league coaching jobs. 

They were discussing the Orioles starters tonight on the The Fan (I don't know if you can hear someone holding their nose on the radio, but it seemed that way), and one critical and common thread that runs through the Orioles' starters is that they simply cannot get hitters out in the strike zone. For Oriole starters to have any success, they have to get ahead and then hope they can get batters to chase. That probably explains, at least in part, the high pitch counts and why you rarely see an Oriole pitcher put away a hitter on three pitches. Instead, they try to nibble with a lot of non-competitive pitches and more often than not, wind up either walking the guy or giving up a hit.

Coaches can only do so much. I know Arrieta and a few others had issues with Rick Adair whose rather rigid approach may not have been the best thing for young pitchers trying to find their way, but at the major league level, coaches are more of a mentor than a drill sergeant who tries to make major changes in pitchers' mechanics or their approach toward hitters. They might try to smooth out the rough spots (which on the Orioles would keep one gainfully employed) and offer suggestions, but they're not there to make radical changes. I doubt seriously if Roger McDowell is working with Gausman on a hanging slider. The player has to show the initiative to figure things out on his own.

I normally agree with your line of thinking.  That its the players and not the coaches that make the difference.  But I'm really searching for some kind of explanation for this total collapse of the pitching staff.  I mean Gausman goes from our best pitcher the second half of last year to an absolute turd in one off season.  Yes there have been injuries, but the staff ERA is a full run higher this year than last year with basically the same staff.  And Wallace/Chiti had Gallardo on the staff as well with his 5 plus ERA. I don't know, it seems like we had guys developing and moving forward with Wallace/Chiti.  They made Britton and Brach into All Stars from journeyman. Tillman/O'SDay took their games to the next level. Bundy/Givens developed into solid major leaguers last year.  And Gausman had turned the corner the second half of last year.  Oh and Hart was really good last year and now is a turd.  Just so many coincidences, it makes me wonder.  Its just my opinion that Wallace/Chiti were very, very good at what they did and their loss was under rated.  They turned DD's water into wine for the pitching staff.  And now the proof is in the pudding with a disastrous season and a staff setting records for futility.  Oh well the silver lining is we still have Brady working his magic, :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, bleedingorangeandblack said:

Where are Wallace and Chiti now 

Also shows how sad things are when we debate over PC who sucked prior to Roger

Last I saw, Wallace and Chiti were working for the Braves in player development - minors and scouting.

And are you really saying that Wallace and Chiti sucked???  Last laughable.  Look at their record over their 3 years with the O's. You must be into Coltsman's fireball. Stick to the Angry Orchard my friend :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, CROUSEMAN said:

Last I saw, Wallace and Chiti were working for the Braves in player development - minors and scouting.

And are you really saying that Wallace and Chiti sucked???  Last laughable.  Look at their record over their 3 years with the O's. You must be into Coltsman's fireball. Stick to the Angry Orchard my friend :)

Lol im with MD i think PC and HC are about as useful to the day to day as our keystrokes are to DD 

BTW Fireball and Angry Orchard 

You're welcome ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, bleedingorangeandblack said:

Lol im with MD i think PC and HC are about as useful to the day to day as our keystrokes are to DD 

BTW Fireball and Angry Orchard 

You're welcome ?

LOL!!  Yeah Britton and Brach turned into all stars from journeyman all on their own, eh???   Yeah we don't need no stinking PC.  Just stick Brady out there to fill the Gatorade cooler and look good in uniform :lol:  Seriously could the pitching staff be any worse with Brady as PC vs McDowell.  And where is McDowell?  Haven't heard a peep from I'm all year.  Must be hiding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

10 hours ago, mdrunning said:

I don't think that decision rested solely with Duquette since Brady also appears to have an in with both Showalter and Angelos. 

Wallace and Chiti left last year of their own volition, due in part to what they saw as Anderson's rising influence and interference. Wallace had planned to retire from major league coaching regardless, but resisted overtures from the Orioles to remain in the organization. 

 

Duquette, however, indicated that he was frustrated with the internal strife, mentioning Wallace and Chiti, unprompted, when asked if coaches generally were comfortable working with Anderson.

“Wallace and Chiti pissed on him for a couple of things they didn’t really like . . . they were critical of how Brady operated within the organization,” Duquette said. “But Brady was working on behalf of the organization. And those guys are not with the organization anymore.”

 

DD kicking Wallace/Chiti in rear end on the way out the door.  After they saved his bacon for 3 years turning an inadequate staff into something serviceable.  I guess DD is eating humble pie now with a dunce cap on his head.  What a dope!!

Edited by CROUSEMAN

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CROUSEMAN said:

I normally agree with your line of thinking.  That its the players and not the coaches that make the difference.  But I'm really searching for some kind of explanation for this total collapse of the pitching staff.  I mean Gausman goes from our best pitcher the second half of last year to an absolute turd in one off season.  Yes there have been injuries, but the staff ERA is a full run higher this year than last year with basically the same staff.  And Wallace/Chiti had Gallardo on the staff as well with his 5 plus ERA. I don't know, it seems like we had guys developing and moving forward with Wallace/Chiti.  They made Britton and Brach into All Stars from journeyman. Tillman/O'SDay took their games to the next level. Bundy/Givens developed into solid major leaguers last year.  And Gausman had turned the corner the second half of last year.  Oh and Hart was really good last year and now is a turd.  Just so many coincidences, it makes me wonder.  Its just my opinion that Wallace/Chiti were very, very good at what they did and their loss was under rated.  They turned DD's water into wine for the pitching staff.  And now the proof is in the pudding with a disastrous season and a staff setting records for futility.  Oh well the silver lining is we still have Brady working his magic, :lol:

And didn't the PC at the time negatively impact Arietta by trying to change his unorthodox pitching style? Clearly PCs can and do impact pitchers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, CROUSEMAN said:

LOL!!  Yeah Britton and Brach turned into all stars from journeyman all on their own, eh???   Yeah we don't need no stinking PC.  Just stick Brady out there to fill the Gatorade cooler and look good in uniform :lol:  Seriously could the pitching staff be any worse with Brady as PC vs McDowell.  And where is McDowell?  Haven't heard a peep from I'm all year.  Must be hiding.

We can agree to disagree on how much they can impact a player

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, bleedingorangeandblack said:

We can agree to disagree on how much they can impact a player

OK.  I'm just trying to find a logical explanation.  I know its not all on the PC.  But how can so many pitchers suck at one time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CROUSEMAN said:

OK.  I'm just trying to find a logical explanation.  I know its not all on the PC.  But how can so many pitchers suck at one time. 

I agree thats its not all on the PC but polishing a turd doesnt make it less of a turd 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, OriginalColtsFan said:

And didn't the PC at the time negatively impact Arietta by trying to change his unorthodox pitching style? Clearly PCs can and do impact pitchers.

In Arrieta's case, however, it was a young pitcher trying to find his way, and not a bunch of established veterans. A number of Orioles pitchers, not just Arrieta, had issues with Rick Adair's cookie-cutter, my-way-or-the-highway approach, so I think there's some credence to that angle. But in Adair's defense, Arrieta hadn't exactly been lighting it up with the Orioles prior to Adair being elevated to pitching coach. In fact, he seemed to be getting progressively worse. 

Here was one scout's take on Arrieta after the Orioles drafted him in the fifth round of the 2007 amateur draft. 

Orioles paid first-round money for a guy who really just isn’t that good. Disclaimer: Speed up his delivery and watch his velocity soar. If only I could convince them to do this, then Arrieta would not be as overrated.

Adair probably wasn't the best thing to happen to Arrieta; what the Orioles initially tried to do with him was make his current mechanics more efficient, since he had spurts where he was maddeningly inconsistent. It seems Adair tried to tear him down and start from scratch, which probably wasn't the best approach. Then again, if Arrieta had pitched better, maybe there wouldn't have been any perceived need for changes.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, CROUSEMAN said:

OK.  I'm just trying to find a logical explanation.  I know its not all on the PC.  But how can so many pitchers suck at one time. 

If either you or I can come up with a viable solution, let's be sure to let the other one know so we can both go out and make a helluva lot of money as private pitching coaches.:D

One theory I came across recently regarding McDowell is that he tends to work well with sinker/slider guys like he was, but not so well with guys who have different types of arsenals. I'd have to go back and look at his track record from his Atlanta days to see if there's anything to support this thesis, but at first glance, at least, it's an interesting take.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0