Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
pitbull

Just Think, If Big Dan Duquette Would Have Done His Job...

30 posts in this topic

...he would probably go down as one of the most beloved figureheads in Baltimore history.

Instead, he'll be recalled as a laughingstock, incompetent, lazy and aloof.

It doesn't take much effort for every Oriole fan to list at least five Big Dan blunders.

(1) Failure to bring back Nelson Cruz.

(2) Failre to bring back Nick Markakis.

(3) Trading away Miranda & Davies for nothing.

(4) Failure to acquire a staff ace.

(5) Failire to acquire a leafoff hitter.

  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

58 minutes ago, pitbull said:

...he would probably go down as one of the most beloved figureheads in Baltimore history.

Instead, he'll be recalled as a laughingstock, incompetent, lazy and aloof.

It doesn't take much effort for every Oriole fan to list at least five Big Dan blunders.

(1) Failure to bring back Nelson Cruz.

(2) Failre to bring back Nick Markakis.

(3) Trading away Miranda & Davies for nothing.

(4) Failure to acquire a staff ace.

(5) Failire to acquire a leafoff hitter.

  

If Duquette is merely a "figurehead" wouldn't that absolve him of any and all responsibility? Figureheads have no real authority, after all.

My guess is that Duquette has done his job well enough to land another executive position after he leaves here despite all of his faults. Winning more games in the American league that past five years than anyone else tends to make people sit up and take notice. If Duquette winds up in the hinterlands post-Orioles, it's because he's Dan Duquette, the man with the personality of a fig, and not because of his skill (or perceived lack of) as a GM.

Duquette has operated within the parameters ownership has placed on this team, and while that certainly doesn't make him blameless, it also doesn't come close to rendering him incompetent and lazy. 

Edited by mdrunning

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It sure was fun to see Cruz smiling and having a great time at the 2017 All Star Game. (Well, fun in a really sad sort of way.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Failure to acquire a [pitching] staff ace? How about failure to acquire a [pitching] STAFF PERIOD?!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, mdrunning said:

If Duquette is merely a "figurehead" wouldn't that absolve him of any and all responsibility? Figureheads have no real authority, after all.

My guess is that Duquette has done his job well enough to land another executive position after he leaves here despite all of his faults. Winning more games in the American league that past five years than anyone else tends to make people sit up and take notice. If Duquette winds up in the hinterlands post-Orioles, it's because he's Dan Duquette, the man with the personality of a fig, and not because of his skill (or perceived lack of) as a GM.

Duquette has operated within the parameters ownership has placed on this team, and while that certainly doesn't make him blameless, it also doesn't come close to rendering him incompetent and lazy. 

     This is an excellent point. There were several GM candidates who passed on interviewing for the position. These candidates knew that they would be handcuffed by ownership.

     I do think that the Orioles did a poor job of addressing their starting pitching situation this off season. They should have acquired a veteran starter after Tillman got the PRP 

     injection in his shoulder during the winter. Instead, they acquired Asher,( who seems to be a decent bullpen piece) Ynoa, Verrette, etc. to fill the potential void. In retrospect

     the Orioles have had a starting pitching depth issue since they released Gonzalez in a cost cutting move after the Davis signing. Further, I think that it is interesting that the 

     majority of Orioles fans put all the blame for the Orioles' disappointing season on DD's shoulders.Apparently,  Buck Showalter is the teflon manager. Despite the team's June

    swoon he is held in high regard. People seem to forget that Buck and DD are pretty much joined at the hip contractually and that the Norfolk/Baltimore shuttle is a concept that

   has partnered BUck and DD. Overall, I think that Showalter has done a poor job of handling Bundy's workload and Machado's on field approach. The bottom line is that Buck

  shares in the disappointment that this season has become as much as DD. Obviously there is a lot of work to do and the Orioles are going to have to figure out if they want to make

 one more run with a core of Davis, Jones , and Machado next year. DD' s major task this year is convincing ownership to either sign Machado long term or to trade him before he hits

free agency. IMO, this will be the stamp of DD's legacy with the Orioles. Also, I doubt that much will change when the GM position becomes open. Most candidates will run from 

the position instead of seeking it. The Orioles will probably elevate Brady Anderson to the position and whomever manages will be subject to the meddling and undermining of

a pet of Angelos. 

   

    

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, russsnyder said:

     This is an excellent point. There were several GM candidates who passed on interviewing for the position. These candidates knew that they would be handcuffed by ownership.

     I do think that the Orioles did a poor job of addressing their starting pitching situation this off season. They should have acquired a veteran starter after Tillman got the PRP 

     injection in his shoulder during the winter. Instead, they acquired Asher,( who seems to be a decent bullpen piece) Ynoa, Verrette, etc. to fill the potential void. In retrospect

     the Orioles have had a starting pitching depth issue since they released Gonzalez in a cost cutting move after the Davis signing. Further, I think that it is interesting that the 

     majority of Orioles fans put all the blame for the Orioles' disappointing season on DD's shoulders.Apparently,  Buck Showalter is the teflon manager. Despite the team's June

    swoon he is held in high regard. People seem to forget that Buck and DD are pretty much joined at the hip contractually and that the Norfolk/Baltimore shuttle is a concept that

   has partnered BUck and DD. Overall, I think that Showalter has done a poor job of handling Bundy's workload and Machado's on field approach. The bottom line is that Buck

  shares in the disappointment that this season has become as much as DD. Obviously there is a lot of work to do and the Orioles are going to have to figure out if they want to make

 one more run with a core of Davis, Jones , and Machado next year. DD' s major task this year is convincing ownership to either sign Machado long term or to trade him before he hits

free agency. IMO, this will be the stamp of DD's legacy with the Orioles. Also, I doubt that much will change when the GM position becomes open. Most candidates will run from 

the position instead of seeking it. The Orioles will probably elevate Brady Anderson to the position and whomever manages will be subject to the meddling and undermining of

a pet of Angelos. 

   

    

 

Don't count me in the group of those letting Showalter off the hook. In addition to what you've already listed, I'd add that he lacks properly preparing the team in some basic fundamentals, like bunting, and even base running. I remember an interview with him a few years ago when a reporter asked him why so-and-so hitter was so poor at bunting. His response was something like: "Oh, I wasn't aware of that". (I think it was the possibly in his first, non-full year he was here.) I figured by the next year, when he'd been here a full year, he'd address that. But bunting and small ball don't seem to be in his repertoire. And that's a problem. He's not a complete manager. He has holes. And those holes have hurt, and continue to hurt the team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, OriginalColtsFan said:

Don't count me in the group of those letting Showalter off the hook. In addition to what you've already listed, I'd add that he lacks properly preparing the team in some basic fundamentals, like bunting, and even base running. I remember an interview with him a few years ago when a reporter asked him why so-and-so hitter was so poor at bunting. His response was something like: "Oh, I wasn't aware of that". (I think it was the possibly in his first, non-full year he was here.) I figured by the next year, when he'd been here a full year, he'd address that. But bunting and small ball don't seem to be in his repertoire. And that's a problem. He's not a complete manager. He has holes. And those holes have hurt, and continue to hurt the team.

    Good points, i would add that this is quite easily the worst defensive team that Buck has had during his tenure here. The lack of execution on run downs goes back to your point

    regarding fundamentals. While I understand that the Orioles are not built for small ball, there are times that you have to use it to spark the offense. I think that Buck has failed to 

    adjust to the team's power outages the last two years. I'd like to see some more hit and runs, bunts and steals when the offense is struggling.  In short, while they have been blown out at times this year, he has not

    been very creative in sparking the offense this season or last IMO. Overall, I think he is a good manager whom has gotten a bit stale with this core. I don't think he should lose his 

   job, but while I think it's fair to criticize Duquette for his shortcomings, I think it is equally fair to point out Buick's flaws as well. 

Edited by russsnyder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, pitbull said:

...he would probably go down as one of the most beloved figureheads in Baltimore history.

Instead, he'll be recalled as a laughingstock, incompetent, lazy and aloof.

It doesn't take much effort for every Oriole fan to list at least five Big Dan blunders.

(1) Failure to bring back Nelson Cruz.

(2) Failre to bring back Nick Markakis.

(3) Trading away Miranda & Davies for nothing.

(4) Failure to acquire a staff ace.

(5) Failire to acquire a leafoff hitter.

  

DD has a boss like all of us. A boss with a budget. He is 1000% better than Syd Thrift. Remember his AWFUL trades!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, johnpolitics said:

DD has a boss like all of us. A boss with a budget. He is 1000% better than Syd Thrift. Remember his AWFUL trades!

 

 

It seems many here are longing for the Thrift days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, ncbirdfan said:

It seems many here are longing for the Thrift days.

His 1999 trades set the O's back YEARS. Gave up Charles Johnson, BJ Surhoff and got nothing in return. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, johnpolitics said:

His 1999 trades set the O's back YEARS. Gave up Charles Johnson, BJ Surhoff and got nothing in return. 

Indeed. I remember those days of Confederate money as well. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, mdrunning said:

My guess is that Duquette has done his job well enough to land another executive position after he leaves here despite all of his faults. 

Really?

Then why was he out of baseball for 10 years before Peter Angelos hired him, if he is so coveted?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, OriginalColtsFan said:

Failure to acquire a [pitching] staff ace? How about failure to acquire a [pitching] STAFF PERIOD?!!

Like I said, easy for fans to name five failures ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ncbirdfan said:

It seems many here are longing for the Thrift days.

?????

Specifically, who?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, pitbull said:

Like I said, easy for fans to name five failures ;)

But can you name 10 ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, bleedingorangeandblack said:

But can you name 10 ?

I'll vouch for him. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, russsnyder said:

    Good points, i would add that this is quite easily the worst defensive team that Buck has had during his tenure here. The lack of execution on run downs goes back to your point

    regarding fundamentals. While I understand that the Orioles are not built for small ball, there are times that you have to use it to spark the offense. I think that Buck has failed to 

    adjust to the team's power outages the last two years. I'd like to see some more hit and runs, bunts and steals when the offense is struggling.  In short, while they have been blown out at times this year, he has not

    been very creative in sparking the offense this season or last IMO. Overall, I think he is a good manager whom has gotten a bit stale with this core. I don't think he should lose his 

   job, but while I think it's fair to criticize Duquette for his shortcomings, I think it is equally fair to point out Buick's flaws as well. 

I disagree that Buck should keep his job. He's done okay or maybe better than okay with the hand that was dealt him, but, as another poster has (IMO) accurately pointed out, he's hit his ceiling. And while he did help raise the O's out of their decade + long morass, he's taken this team as far as he can with his skill set.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, OriginalColtsFan said:

I disagree that Buck should keep his job. He's done okay or maybe better than okay with the hand that was dealt him, but, as another poster has (IMO) accurately pointed out, he's hit his ceiling. And while he did help raise the O's out of their decade + long morass, he's taken this team as far as he can with his skill set.

    I doubt that either Buck or DD is fired. 

    However, as another poster pointed out, ( mdrunning?) Duquette and Buck will be in the last year of their contracts in 2018.

    I think that it is likely that Buck will be offered a two year extension so that he does not enter 2018 as a lame duck manager. ( not so sure about DD)

    He may very well turn it down and stay with the organization in a front office role or resign.

    I think the Orioles are in a tough spot with DD and Buck's contracts running out while a rebuild is on the horizon.

    

    

    

    

    

 

    

Edited by russsnyder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, russsnyder said:

    I doubt that either Buck or DD is fired. 

    However, as another poster pointed out, ( mdrunning?) Duquette and Buck will be in the last year of their contracts in 2018.

    I think that it is likely that Buck will be offered a two year extension so that he does not enter 2018 as a lame duck manager. ( not so sure about DD)

    He may very well turn it down and stay with the organization in a front office role or resign.

    I think the Orioles are in a tough spot with DD and Buck's contracts running out while a rebuild is on the horizon.

    

    

    

    

    

 

    

While I don't necessarily disagree in terms of what might happen, I do disagree in terms of what should happen. It's time to move on IMO. Across the board. GM. Manager. Coaches. And a lot of players as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, pitbull said:

Really?

Then why was he out of baseball for 10 years before Peter Angelos hired him, if he is so coveted?

As I stated, I think Duquette's biggest enemy can sometimes be Duquette. Diplomacy is not one of this strong suits by any means, which oftentimes doesn't sit well with prospective employers. I imagine he sometimes isn't the easiest guy to get along with.

Remember, Duquette wasn't fired at his last stop in Boston; new ownership was coming in and naturally wanted to bring in their own people. Baseball is as much a relationship business as anything else; it's based not just on how good of a job you do, but who else you know within the game who can keep you in the inner circle as far as upper management positions. Duquette probably didn't have anyone to keep him the loop, and thus was passed by for other positions. By the time he took the Orioles' job, he was, for all intents and purposes, an outsider, but not because of his lack of skill as a GM. He just lacked that patron saint every executive needs to keep his foot in the door.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, OriginalColtsFan said:

While I don't necessarily disagree in terms of what might happen, I do disagree in terms of what should happen. It's time to move on IMO. Across the board. GM. Manager. Coaches. And a lot of players as well.

    Fair enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any new GM would want his manager choice. Unless its forced on him by ownership. If that's the case, it could take awhile to find a GM replacement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, stevez51 said:

Any new GM would want his manager choice. Unless its forced on him by ownership. If that's the case, it could take awhile to find a GM replacement.

In that case, this hot mess/tire fire will keep on burning out of control.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/15/2017 at 5:34 PM, pitbull said:

Really?

Then why was he out of baseball for 10 years before Peter Angelos hired him, if he is so coveted?

Do you not remember when Toronto tried to poach DD away from the O's? They offered him a promotion...President of the club. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/15/2017 at 7:22 PM, OriginalColtsFan said:

I disagree that Buck should keep his job. He's done okay or maybe better than okay with the hand that was dealt him, but, as another poster has (IMO) accurately pointed out, he's hit his ceiling. And while he did help raise the O's out of their decade + long morass, he's taken this team as far as he can with his skill set.

Before this season I would have disagreed.  But with the continued starting of Ubaldo tells me Buck needs to go unless he has no control over his starters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0