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Made In America week....more hypocrisy on parade

95 posts in this topic

9 minutes ago, FatBoy said:

You did the best you could. 

We are caught between warring giants. American Giant makes affordable cars. Pay well, make profit, we get a good product everybody happy. Politicians get lobbied(paid in donations) to regulate, tax, anything to raise money for said lobby pet project. Prices go up, enter foreign giant. Imports cars at cheaper price, has no regulations or high taxes to deal with. American Giant responds by laying off, sending jobs overseas for labor to compete, and round and round we go. We remain stuck in the middle, fighting with each other.

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2 minutes ago, mrdeltoid said:

We are caught between warring giants. American Giant makes affordable cars. Pay well, make profit, we get a good product everybody happy. Politicians get lobbied(paid in donations) to regulate, tax, anything to raise money for said lobby pet project. Prices go up, enter foreign giant. Imports cars at cheaper price, has no regulations or high taxes to deal with. American Giant responds by laying off, sending jobs overseas for labor to compete, and round and round we go. We remain stuck in the middle, fighting with each other.

I get that. Let's call it protectionism vs. lower prices. I don't pretend to know the answers. But what I do know is post WW2 America was one of incredible prosperity. We did not import consumer goods. The common man could work hard and make a decent living. Now, not so much. 

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3 hours ago, EGoldstein said:

And just how do you find me on the same side as Trump?  You can have his support all to yourself as I find it quite hypocritical for Trump to tell people to buy and hire American while he does the opposite.  But he knows that the sale of his tinkets will not be hurt by his own hypocrisy because it is lost on his ardent followers.  Is it lost on you as well?  As he said, he could shoot someone on Fifth Ave and not lose voters.  While another show of insolence, it appears to be correct for a segment of the population.  

Do you think "Buy American" is a good idea, or should we buy Chinese?  If you believe the former, then on that issue you side with Trump. 

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7 hours ago, jdsample said:

Do you think "Buy American" is a good idea, or should we buy Chinese?  If you believe the former, then on that issue you side with Trump. 

your logic, as always, is flawed....

Buy American is a great idea....always has been and believe it or not, this isn't an original idea....

however, having a hypocrite sending the message makes it ring hollow. The slogan should be "Manufacture in America".....and then the messenger demonstrates his belief in this by making his junk in the USA...

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7 hours ago, jdsample said:

Do you think "Buy American" is a good idea, or should we buy Chinese?  If you believe the former, then on that issue you side with Trump. 

Trump should put his money where his fat orange mouth is.  And that goes for his whole crooked family.  He's got some nerve talking all the buy America, hire America crap when he and his kids have gone out of there way to NEVER do that in ANY of their businesses.

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9 hours ago, FatBoy said:

I get that. Let's call it protectionism vs. lower prices. I don't pretend to know the answers. But what I do know is post WW2 America was one of incredible prosperity. We did not import consumer goods. The common man could work hard and make a decent living. Now, not so much. 

That's because Europe and Japan and to a smaller extent China were in ruins.

Edited by bmore_ken

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37 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

That's because Europe and Japan and to a smaller extent China were in ruins.

That's one big detail ........

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10 hours ago, FatBoy said:

I get that. Let's call it protectionism vs. lower prices. I don't pretend to know the answers. But what I do know is post WW2 America was one of incredible prosperity. We did not import consumer goods. The common man could work hard and make a decent living. Now, not so much. 

War Machines always generate prosperity. After WWII, it was Korea. Then Vietnam. About a decade after Vietnam, the War Machine was slowly grinding to a halt...increased fuel prices, government hiring freezes, less manufacturing jobs, higher unemployment, higher crime rates, higher retail prices, higher taxes, etc.

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14 hours ago, jdsample said:

It is kind of hard to maintain the idea that Trump is enriching himself as president when he campaigns for people to not buy his products.  But consistency has never been terribly important when bashing the president. 

His ties aren't terribly expensive, nor are Ivanka's products.

Of course that's off point here. The point is he preaches made in America while virtually no Trump products are.

The real bonanza are the Trump properties where Trump funnels functions--dinners, rallies etc.

Edited by ms maggie

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10 hours ago, mrdeltoid said:

We are caught between warring giants. American Giant makes affordable cars. Pay well, make profit, we get a good product everybody happy. Politicians get lobbied(paid in donations) to regulate, tax, anything to raise money for said lobby pet project. Prices go up, enter foreign giant. Imports cars at cheaper price, has no regulations or high taxes to deal with. American Giant responds by laying off, sending jobs overseas for labor to compete, and round and round we go. We remain stuck in the middle, fighting with each other.

You seem to want to put all the blame on government.  Do you think CEO's and corporate boards wanting huge paychecks for themselves and shareholders wanting bigger and bigger returns on their investments have anything whatsoever to do with the problem?

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10 hours ago, mrdeltoid said:

We are caught between warring giants. American Giant makes affordable cars. Pay well, make profit, we get a good product everybody happy. Politicians get lobbied(paid in donations) to regulate, tax, anything to raise money for said lobby pet project. Prices go up, enter foreign giant. Imports cars at cheaper price, has no regulations or high taxes to deal with. American Giant responds by laying off, sending jobs overseas for labor to compete, and round and round we go. We remain stuck in the middle, fighting with each other.

Nonsense. Taxes were much higher in the fifties and sixties.

As to regulations, imported cars have to meet all the regulations that domestically made cars do.

 

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29 minutes ago, ODENTON said:

Helen Aguirre Ferre said Sunday; "For too long our government has forgotten the American worker. Their interests were pushed aside for global projects and their wealth was taken from the communities and shipped overseas," said Ferre. "Under the leadership of President Donald Trump, not only will the American worker never be forgotten, but they will be championed."

It is absolutely mind boggling that she said this to the press. 

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44 minutes ago, FatBoy said:

Helen Aguirre Ferre said Sunday; "For too long our government has forgotten the American worker. Their interests were pushed aside for global projects and their wealth was taken from the communities and shipped overseas," said Ferre. "Under the leadership of President Donald Trump, not only will the American worker never be forgotten, but they will be championed."

It is absolutely mind boggling that she said this to the press. 

Billionaires have no interest in helping the working man.  Never have, never will.

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2 hours ago, ms maggie said:

His ties aren't terribly expensive, nor are Ivanka's products.

Of course that's off point here. The point is he preaches made in America while virtually no Trump products are.

The real bonanza are the Trump properties where Trump funnels functions--dinners, rallies etc.

As has been pointed out (when convenient) his "products" are a trivial part of his empire.  It is also simplistic and child-like to think it appropriate to manufacture any and all products in America.  Americans are spectacularly good and have advantages when it comes to some products, and others not so much.  I have pointed out that Americans like Mercedes, but Europeans are not going to trade their Mercedes for a Silverado truck or Ford Fusion anytime soon.  But a generic message encouraging us to buy American is not in and of itself hypocritical like jetting around the country in a private jet lecturing people on reducing their carbon footprint. 

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1 minute ago, jdsample said:

As has been pointed out (when convenient) his "products" are a trivial part of his empire.  It is also simplistic and child-like to think it appropriate to manufacture any and all products in America.  Americans are spectacularly good and have advantages when it comes to some products, and others not so much.  I have pointed out that Americans like Mercedes, but Europeans are not going to trade their Mercedes for a Silverado truck or Ford Fusion anytime soon.  But a generic message encouraging us to buy American is not in and of itself hypocritical like jetting around the country in a private jet lecturing people on reducing their carbon footprint. 

Americans can't make ties, or belts, or dresses? Please.  His companies make things offshore because it's more profitable.  Which is apparently ok for Trumps but bad if you're Carrier or Ford.  Hypocritial?  Ya think?

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3 hours ago, mrsmlh said:

You seem to want to put all the blame on government.  Do you think CEO's and corporate boards wanting huge paychecks for themselves and shareholders wanting bigger and bigger returns on their investments have anything whatsoever to do with the problem?

I look at it, prolly in overly simple terms, but there are factors that remain constant, business owners start businesses with their money. Therefore, if it is not worth their while, they won't invest. People start businesses to make money. In order to make a good product, it costs money. The better the product, the better the profit. Expand production,= more jobs, more jobs, more money to pour into the economy. Competition = better product= better prices. 90% of any operating budget is payroll. Operating budget +Capitol budget + taxes+regulation is the overhead subtracted from gross =net. Problems start when taxes go up, regulations become incompatable with profits. Bottom line, the people putting up the money aren't going sacrifice their profit. Either we'll pick up the tab at the cash register, or they'll cut back on the biggest part of the budget, which is payroll. Are there greedy CEOs? Sure. But when the politicians responsible for the tax hikes and regulations are getting paid with perks , benefits, or making a million dollars for a ten minute speech, don't look for a greedy CEO to volunteer to pay for the program's greedy politicians push. So in short, sure, the CEOs get theirs, but not if they don't produce for the stockholders. The politicians get theirs, from us.

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1 hour ago, ms maggie said:

Americans can't make ties, or belts, or dresses? Please.  His companies make things offshore because it's more profitable.  Which is apparently ok for Trumps but bad if you're Carrier or Ford.  Hypocritial?  Ya think?

There are some Trump apologists on this board who refuse to see the hypocrisy. Of course, none of them voted for him.:rolleyes: 

Edited by FatBoy

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4 minutes ago, ms maggie said:
Quote

Whiting added, "This move would result in higher prices for flatware for the military, a wasteful use of scarce defense dollars."

Wow, that is hilarious.  Obviously half a trillion just doesn't buy what it used to.

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1 minute ago, ivanbalt said:

Wow, that is hilarious.  Obviously half a trillion just doesn't buy what it used to.

It's even funnier than that:

"Tenney defended the legislation in a speech before the vote. She said the amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act would allow the Defense Department to waive the domestic-sourcing requirement if American-made flatware could not be procured at market prices".

There is literally no good reason for not doing this.  Idiots in the House strike again. 

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14 minutes ago, mrdeltoid said:

I look at it, prolly in overly simple terms, but there are factors that remain constant, business owners start businesses with their money. Therefore, if it is not worth their while, they won't invest. People start businesses to make money. In order to make a good product, it costs money. The better the product, the better the profit. Expand production,= more jobs, more jobs, more money to pour into the economy. Competition = better product= better prices. 90% of any operating budget is payroll. Operating budget +Capitol budget + taxes+regulation is the overhead subtracted from gross =net. Problems start when taxes go up, regulations become incompatable with profits. Bottom line, the people putting up the money aren't going sacrifice their profit. Either we'll pick up the tab at the cash register, or they'll cut back on the biggest part of the budget, which is payroll. Are there greedy CEOs? Sure. But when the politicians responsible for the tax hikes and regulations are getting paid with perks , benefits, or making a million dollars for a ten minute speech, don't look for a greedy CEO to volunteer to pay for the program's greedy politicians push. So in short, sure, the CEOs get theirs, but not if they don't produce for the stockholders. The politicians get theirs, from us.

Please tell me what industry or industries that produce an actual product has a level that is 90% payroll expense?  Not even sure if service industries have that high a level of expenses in the single category for that matter.

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20 minutes ago, mrdeltoid said:

I look at it, prolly in overly simple terms, but there are factors that remain constant, business owners start businesses with their money. Therefore, if it is not worth their while, they won't invest. People start businesses to make money. In order to make a good product, it costs money. The better the product, the better the profit. Expand production,= more jobs, more jobs, more money to pour into the economy. Competition = better product= better prices. 90% of any operating budget is payroll. Operating budget +Capitol budget + taxes+regulation is the overhead subtracted from gross =net. Problems start when taxes go up, regulations become incompatable with profits. Bottom line, the people putting up the money aren't going sacrifice their profit. Either we'll pick up the tab at the cash register, or they'll cut back on the biggest part of the budget, which is payroll. Are there greedy CEOs? Sure. But when the politicians responsible for the tax hikes and regulations are getting paid with perks , benefits, or making a million dollars for a ten minute speech, don't look for a greedy CEO to volunteer to pay for the program's greedy politicians push. So in short, sure, the CEOs get theirs, but not if they don't produce for the stockholders. The politicians get theirs, from us.

The CEO and stockholders get theirs plus some.  Look at the productivity increases (which are the main driver of profit increases) in the last decades--pretty impressive.  And the stockholders have seen those increases, as well as the CEOs.  The workers? Nah. 

And what business models have 90% of their operating budget as payroll?

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14 hours ago, FatBoy said:

But what I do know is post WW2 America was one of incredible prosperity. We did not import consumer goods. 

Well, a fair portion of the world was decimated by the war so I'm pretty sure that figured into it. 

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