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can you hear me now!

Made In America week....more hypocrisy on parade

95 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, jdsample said:

As has been pointed out (when convenient) his "products" are a trivial part of his empire.  It is also simplistic and child-like to think it appropriate to manufacture any and all products in America.  Americans are spectacularly good and have advantages when it comes to some products, and others not so much.  I have pointed out that Americans like Mercedes, but Europeans are not going to trade their Mercedes for a Silverado truck or Ford Fusion anytime soon.  But a generic message encouraging us to buy American is not in and of itself hypocritical like jetting around the country in a private jet lecturing people on reducing their carbon footprint. 

Well that is the simplistic and child-like message he's pushing... and his simplistic and child-like supporters are buying it. Even though he doesn't practice what he preaches.  Oh, and it's not just his products.  It's EVERYTHING.  Even when he slaps his name on a building made here in America most of the materials aren't from here.  Why doesn't he insist that any building that wants to have his name on it has to use American resources and American labor?  Oh, I know why... because he's a big fat orange lying con artist and simply cannot be trusted.

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21 minutes ago, Rael said:

Well, a fair portion of the world was decimated by the war so I'm pretty sure that figured into it. 

I think that a great many people seem to ignore that rather gigantic advantage that we had during the post-WWII era.

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5 hours ago, ms maggie said:

Nonsense. Taxes were much higher in the fifties and sixties.

As to regulations, imported cars have to meet all the regulations that domestically made cars do.

 

Really? Do Mexico and China have to follow all the regulations concerning the production of the cars? Do they have to compete with American wages while following all the regs that are put on American manufacturers? Why do you think all the factories are moving to countries that have a high wage or regulations or corporate taxes like we do?

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10 minutes ago, mrdeltoid said:

Really? Do Mexico and China have to follow all the regulations concerning the production of the cars? Do they have to compete with American wages while following all the regs that are put on American manufacturers? Why do you think all the factories are moving to countries that have a high wage or regulations or corporate taxes like we do?

Are you saying a car built in Mexico doesn't have to meet EPA emissions standards?

Edited by bmore_ken

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59 minutes ago, ms maggie said:

The CEO and stockholders get theirs plus some.  Look at the productivity increases (which are the main driver of profit increases) in the last decades--pretty impressive.  And the stockholders have seen those increases, as well as the CEOs.  The workers? Nah. 

And what business models have 90% of their operating budget as payroll?

I was using a generic model where capitol budget was fixed assets, building expenses etc. The 90% was just a for instance. Even if it was 50%, most business cuts payroll when profits drop. Buildings, machines, assembly line etc was capitol budget in that model. (It was a government leadership course:unsure:sorry), but my point was the same. We can't compete with countrie that have very low safety standards, below even reasonable levels, forget some of the crazy regs. we must cough up. And of course stockholders and CEOs get paid, stockholders put up the cash and the CEOs must produce or they're gone. No union protection there.

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2 hours ago, ms maggie said:

Americans can't make ties, or belts, or dresses? Please.  His companies make things offshore because it's more profitable.  Which is apparently ok for Trumps but bad if you're Carrier or Ford.  Hypocritial?  Ya think?

So you would prefer that he do nothing about factories moving overseas.  Got it. 

Or should he encourage more to move, just so he can claim to be consistent?

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1 minute ago, jdsample said:

So you would prefer that he do nothing about factories moving overseas.  Got it. 

Or should he encourage more to move, just so he can claim to be consistent?

What has he done other than run his mouth??

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3 minutes ago, mrdeltoid said:

I was using a generic model where capitol budget was fixed assets, building expenses etc. The 90% was just a for instance. Even if it was 50%, most business cuts payroll when profits drop. Buildings, machines, assembly line etc was capitol budget in that model. (It was a government leadership course:unsure:sorry), but my point was the same. We can't compete with countrie that have very low safety standards, below even reasonable levels, forget some of the crazy regs. we must cough up. And of course stockholders and CEOs get paid, stockholders put up the cash and the CEOs must produce or they're gone. No union protection there.

so your solution would be what? Lower the US standards to meet those with low safety standards? that would make everyone but the workers happy...but then again the workers are the negative in the equation...

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6 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

Are you saying a car built in Mexico doesn't have to meet EPA emissions standards?

No, I mean basic safety standards every human being should have. They have no OSHA, ANSI, BOCA, MOSHA or the dozen other organizations to deal with. Slave wages, etc. It's not an even playing field.

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3 minutes ago, jdsample said:

So you would prefer that he do nothing about factories moving overseas.  Got it. 

Or should he encourage more to move, just so he can claim to be consistent?

We would prefer that he and his family business just do what he's telling everyone else to do.

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3 hours ago, ivanbalt said:

Billionaires have no interest in helping the working man.  Never have, never will.

It depends on the Billionaire. Look at Adolf Coors. For decades the union couldn't bust that plant because he took good care of his people. They had on site child care, a gym, pension plans, health insurance etc. Same goes for people like Bill Gates. He would be a great leader in a libertarian based democracy. Tax relief by people like him who would provide for his employees, he even said so. It can be done. But with people like Bernie Sanders pushing free college, free health care paid for by the tax payers. He would go heavy after the top 1% which is the reason they fight for every penny they can pinch with tax loop holes. They don't even have the chance to take care of their own employees. With all profit and no low corporate taxes, the companies that treat their employees best would draw the best people. The unions were needed when they formed early when industries took off, but they have gone to the other extreme and priced the union man right out of a job.

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18 minutes ago, mrdeltoid said:

No, I mean basic safety standards every human being should have. They have no OSHA, ANSI, BOCA, MOSHA or the dozen other organizations to deal with. Slave wages, etc. It's not an even playing field.

So you're talking about the workers, not the cars themselves?

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20 minutes ago, banner1124 said:

We would prefer that he and his family business just do what he's telling everyone else to do.

Like Al Gore?

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13 minutes ago, can you hear me now! said:

so your solution would be what? Lower the US standards to meet those with low safety standards? that would make everyone but the workers happy...but then again the workers are the negative in the equation...

I would say there is a reasonable level some where between Zero standards and Regulating the profits away on unreasonable regs. I remember in 1984 when 3 firefighters were killed in Baltimore county.There was a study done and one of the problems was outdated communications. They replaced it with the 800 Mghz(I think that the right acronym). Well during the installations the department ran into resistance from conservation groups. They wanted to move towers to locations that was not only out of the budget, but the reason was their concern for "migrating birds". They were willing to stop the upgrade to save the birds. So, long story short, common sense got the better of them and there was an upgrade.

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12 minutes ago, mrdeltoid said:

I would say there is a reasonable level some where between Zero standards and Regulating the profits away on unreasonable regs. I remember in 1984 when 3 firefighters were killed in Baltimore county.There was a study done and one of the problems was outdated communications. They replaced it with the 800 Mghz(I think that the right acronym). Well during the installations the department ran into resistance from conservation groups. They wanted to move towers to locations that was not only out of the budget, but the reason was their concern for "migrating birds". They were willing to stop the upgrade to save the birds. So, long story short, common sense got the better of them and there was an upgrade.

I asked for solutions, not stories about the BCFD (an outstanding group of people btw). What you have here is an environmental concern and a local government, not an example of an industry that is over-regulated. You are demonstrating one of those flaws with the libertarian mindset-- everyman for himself doesn't work very well in an organized and orderly society....the government does need to ensure there is a reasonable and enforceable standards...no matter how much the plutocrats scream... 

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41 minutes ago, mrdeltoid said:

It depends on the Billionaire. Look at Adolf Coors. For decades the union couldn't bust that plant because he took good care of his people. They had on site child care, a gym, pension plans, health insurance etc. Same goes for people like Bill Gates. He would be a great leader in a libertarian based democracy. Tax relief by people like him who would provide for his employees, he even said so. It can be done. But with people like Bernie Sanders pushing free college, free health care paid for by the tax payers. He would go heavy after the top 1% which is the reason they fight for every penny they can pinch with tax loop holes. They don't even have the chance to take care of their own employees. With all profit and no low corporate taxes, the companies that treat their employees best would draw the best people. The unions were needed when they formed early when industries took off, but they have gone to the other extreme and priced the union man right out of a job.

I'm sorry, but history in this country has shown that the "free market" will not take care of the working man.  For every business leader that does right by his employees, there are thousands that do not.  All taxes on businesses could be eliminated and within a couple quarters those at the top will be looking how to squeeze out more profit from layoffs.

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43 minutes ago, jdsample said:

Like Al Gore?

Al Gore isn't president.  We are talking about trump now.  Please do try to stay on topic

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1 minute ago, banner1124 said:

Al Gore isn't president.  We are talking about trump now.  Please do try to stay on topic

Just pointing out that the left really isn't horrified by hypocrisy unless it is Trump. 

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25 minutes ago, jdsample said:

Just pointing out that the left really isn't horrified by hypocrisy unless it is Trump. 

No, you're just deflecting because you will defend anything this moronic president does.

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1 hour ago, jdsample said:

So you would prefer that he do nothing about factories moving overseas.  Got it. 

Or should he encourage more to move, just so he can claim to be consistent?

No he should set an example.

HAHAHAHAHA.

Sorry, that was just too funny. 

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1 minute ago, ms maggie said:

No he should set an example.

HAHAHAHAHA.

Sorry, that was just too funny. 

It would be funny if it weren't so sad watching the way Trumpanzees twist themselves into pretzels to defend the indefensible

 

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27 minutes ago, jdsample said:

Just pointing out that the left really isn't horrified by hypocrisy unless it is Trump. 

Oh please.  If Gore flew a private jet every day for the rest of his life it wouldn't register as a rounding error in the amount of CO2 we are pumping into the atmosphere.  And Gore isn't driven by enriching himself unlike the Trumps.  

 

I don't give 2 ****s where Trump makes his ties.  But berating companies like Ford when he offshores everything to increase his profit margin is a bit much.  

 

The relevant comparison would be if Gore were telling people not to fly, commercially or private.  He's encouraging clean energy development and expansion.  As far as I know, he doesn't own a coal powered plant or oil fields. 

 

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12 minutes ago, ms maggie said:

Oh please.  If Gore flew a private jet every day for the rest of his life it wouldn't register as a rounding error in the amount of CO2 we are pumping into the atmosphere.  And Gore isn't driven by enriching himself unlike the Trumps.  

 

I don't give 2 ****s where Trump makes his ties.  But berating companies like Ford when he offshores everything to increase his profit margin is a bit much.  

 

The relevant comparison would be if Gore were telling people not to fly, commercially or private.  He's encouraging clean energy development and expansion.  As far as I know, he doesn't own a coal powered plant or oil fields. 

 

None of those silly details matter when you're trying to deflect in order to defend the indefensible

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11 minutes ago, ms maggie said:

Oh please.  If Gore flew a private jet every day for the rest of his life it wouldn't register as a rounding error in the amount of CO2 we are pumping into the atmosphere.  And Gore isn't driven by enriching himself unlike the Trumps.  

 

I don't give 2 ****s where Trump makes his ties.  But berating companies like Ford when he offshores everything to increase his profit margin is a bit much.  

 

The relevant comparison would be if Gore were telling people not to fly, commercially or private.  He's encouraging clean energy development and expansion.  As far as I know, he doesn't own a coal powered plant or oil fields. 

 

He does however use an exorbitant amount of energy.  If we all followed his example, it would have a major impact on CO2 production. 
Owning a coal plant is not relevant if you live on the grid.  You are using whatever energy comes from your local power plant. 

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2 hours ago, mrdeltoid said:

Really? Do Mexico and China have to follow all the regulations concerning the production of the cars? Do they have to compete with American wages while following all the regs that are put on American manufacturers? Why do you think all the factories are moving to countries that have a high wage or regulations or corporate taxes like we do?

I'm fairly certain that auto manufacturering today is pretty standard from plant to plant. I know it is for Toyota. These are massive, sophisticated operations and standardization is a must for quality control.

Wages are a different matter. 

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