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U.S. Army refuses to take Confederate general names off Fort Hamilton streets

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Posted (edited)

25 minutes ago, VOSA said:

Yeah, that Robert E. Lee was really and incompetent bum.

Apparently lincoln thought differently since he offered lee command of the army of the potomac.

Had lee accepted the war would likely have been over in 6 months.

Edited by Dr Johnny Fever

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1 minute ago, Dr Johnny Fever said:

Apparently lincoln thought differently since he offered lee command of the army of the potomac.

Not much to chose from.

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16 minutes ago, VOSA said:

Yeah, that's probably why the Civil War was so short.

You've got the Lost Cause talking points down cold.

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1 minute ago, hst2 said:

You've got the Lost Cause talking points down cold.

How does your "Lost Cause" reconcile all those documented battlefield victories by the south?  Are you saying they didn't happen?

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11 minutes ago, hst2 said:

Not much to chose from.

What do you mean?

He had the entire officer corps to chose from.

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18 hours ago, hst2 said:

You've got the Lost Cause talking points down cold.

It was a cause.

They lost.

Ergo the lost cause.

People should either learn how to use the English language or they should shut up.

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Posted (edited)

20 hours ago, Smokey 1 said:

How does your "Lost Cause" reconcile all those documented battlefield victories by the south?  Are you saying they didn't happen?

Worse generals on the other side?

The north's heart not in it until the war became about a moral Cause?

A South motivated by a defense of Homeland.

I have cited an article about how the Confederate generals were lousy, but neither of you have touched it. You make generalizations (lol!) That might be explained other ways.

Edited by hst2

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Posted (edited)

18 minutes ago, hst2 said:

Worse generals on the other side?

The north's heart not in it until the war became about a moral Cause?

A South motivated by a defense of Homeland.

I have cited an article about how the Confederate generals were lousy, but neither of you have touched it. You make generalizations (lol!) That might be explained other ways.

You are not being honest again.

You cited an opinion piece by a non-historian that claimed one general, Lee was bad at his job.  I replied that Lee did make some mistakes at Gettysburg.   I responded that you didn't cite anything against any other generals and that Stonewall Jackson was internationally recognized as a military genius which you didn't touch.  Most legitimate historians recognize that the southern officer corp was much better than those in the union army.

Edited by Smokey 1

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1 hour ago, VOSA said:

It was a cause.

They lost.

Ergo the lost cause.

People should either learn how to use the English language or they should shut up.

"The Lost Cause of the Confederacy, or simply Lost Cause, is a set of beliefs, common in the white American South,[citation needed] that describes the Confederate cause as a heroic one against great odds despite its defeat. The beliefs endorse the virtues of the antebellum South, viewing the American Civil War as an honorable struggle for the Southern way of life,[1] while minimizing or denying the central role of slavery. While it was not taught in the North, aspects of it did win acceptance there and helped the process of reunifying American whites.

...Supporters typically portray the Confederacy's cause as noble and its leadership as exemplars of old-fashioned chivalry and honor, defeated by the Union armies through numerical and industrial force that overwhelmed the South's superior military skill and courage. Proponents of the Lost Cause movement also condemned the Reconstruction that followed the Civil War, claiming that it had been a deliberate attempt by Northern politicians and speculators to destroy the traditional Southern way of life. In recent decades Lost Cause themes have been widely promoted by the Neo-Confederate movement in books and op-eds, and especially in one of the movement's magazines, the Southern Partisan. The Lost Cause theme has been a major element in defining gender roles in the white South, in terms of honor, tradition, and family roles.[7] The Lost Cause has inspired many prominent Southern memorials and even religious attitudes.[8]"

Link

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1 minute ago, Smokey 1 said:

You are not being honest again.

You cited an opinion piece by a non-historian that claimed one general, Lee was bad at his job.  I replied that Lee did make some mistakes at Gettysburg.   I responded that you didn't cite anything that against any other generals and that Stonewall Jackson was internationally recognized as a military genius which you didn't touch.  Most legitimate historians recognize that the southern officer corp was much better than those in the union army.

If the non-historian has not cited facts, please point them out.

Being not as bad as the generals on the other side is high praise, indeed.:)

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Just now, hst2 said:

If the non-historian has not cited facts, please point them out.

Being not as bad as the generals on the other side is high praise, indeed.:)

Still won't touch Jackson.  I wonder why.

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"How Lee Lost the Civil War"

Bonekemper does not just focus on the time from Gettysburg on – he starts from the beginning of Lee’s career in the Confederate Army. For instance, Lee placed his loyalty to Virginia. This was admirable, as Richmond was the capitol, and a major center of gravity for the Confederacy. However, Lee’s focus, and refusal to support other theaters (most notably Tennessee) led to disaster for the Confederacy. Bonekemper also shows how Lee supported bad commanders, like John Bell Hood, who destroyed his army with frontal attacks. This is one of the most interesting books on the Civil War. Bonekemper marshals the statistical argument that Lee’s flawed strategy and bad judgement cost the South dearly well, and in a very readable form. This book will also cause many a debate as well, because while it may be unpopular in some areas, it is also very hard to dismiss.

 

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2 minutes ago, hst2 said:

"The Lost Cause of the Confederacy, or simply Lost Cause, is a set of beliefs, common in the white American South,[citation needed] that describes the Confederate cause as a heroic one against great odds despite its defeat. The beliefs endorse the virtues of the antebellum South, viewing the American Civil War as an honorable struggle for the Southern way of life,[1] while minimizing or denying the central role of slavery. While it was not taught in the North, aspects of it did win acceptance there and helped the process of reunifying American whites.

...Supporters typically portray the Confederacy's cause as noble and its leadership as exemplars of old-fashioned chivalry and honor, defeated by the Union armies through numerical and industrial force that overwhelmed the South's superior military skill and courage. Proponents of the Lost Cause movement also condemned the Reconstruction that followed the Civil War, claiming that it had been a deliberate attempt by Northern politicians and speculators to destroy the traditional Southern way of life. In recent decades Lost Cause themes have been widely promoted by the Neo-Confederate movement in books and op-eds, and especially in one of the movement's magazines, the Southern Partisan. The Lost Cause theme has been a major element in defining gender roles in the white South, in terms of honor, tradition, and family roles.[7] The Lost Cause has inspired many prominent Southern memorials and even religious attitudes.[8]"

Link

The part I bolded and italicized is absolutely true and documented.

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6 minutes ago, Smokey 1 said:

Still won't touch Jackson.  I wonder why.

This doesn't explain why so many bases are named after bad generals.

Lost. Cause. Myth. 

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Posted (edited)

50 minutes ago, hst2 said:

This doesn't explain why so many bases are named after bad generals.

Lost. Cause. Myth. 

Lost Cause Myth is a myth itself and bunch of straw man arguments.  It takes a lot of gall to revise history and when challenged on it claim that documented history much from primary sources is a "myth". 

Edited by Smokey 1

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Just now, Smokey 1 said:

The part I bolded and italicized is absolutely true and documented.

It allows you to ignore the bad generals on your slave state side.

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Posted (edited)

12 minutes ago, hst2 said:

It allows you to ignore the bad generals on your slave state side.

Name the bad generals.  If the southern generals were so bad and the union generals so good then how come it took over four years to defeat an ill equipped army almost half the size of the union army which had not only more men but unlimited arms and equipment? 

If the southern army and generals were so bad then how could one general with one small army defeat three union armies, each larger than the southern army in the Valley Campaign?

Edited by Smokey 1

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1 hour ago, Smokey 1 said:

The part I bolded and italicized is absolutely true and documented.

Southern soldiers had more courage than northern soldiers? I don't think you mean that.

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47 minutes ago, ms maggie said:

Southern soldiers had more courage than northern soldiers? I don't think you mean that.

No, any soldier that stood in ranks taking fire was very courageous.

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On 8/8/2017 at 10:32 AM, FatBoy said:

Who's buried in Grants tomb?

No one.

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