flyboy56

North Korea Has Miniaturized A Nuclear Warhead

334 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, MiddleOfTheRoad said:

To make that connection is to relieve NK of three generations of bad decisions.  They could have resolved the issue in 1956, but instead decided to remain a belligerent, despotic barely there nation-state with hungry people and a corrupt "governing" entity.  

Nation-States most assuredly do respond to the conditions around them but NK has been on the edge of war for more than 6 decades.  Your position would have more merit had NK started their miltary focus in 2002, after the Axis of Evil meme was given life, but we both know that is not the case.  The move to nuclear weaponry is just the natural progression of a nation focused more on being a military power than taking care of its own people.

 

 

 

Well stated MOTR. The Kim family has not wavered from their agenda since the start of the Korean War. For them the war is not over. The regime is not looking to stay isolated forever, they do still have designs on the Korean peninsula. Only Kim and a few select know what the trigger is to start fighting again. I believe having ICBM's is part of their plan to restart the war which was made part of their doctrine after the fighting stopped. 

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4 minutes ago, SemiAuto said:

If someone within the regime does a rogue launch then it is the end of the regime anyways.   Kim Jung Un will not walk away from any nuclear attack that comes from North Korea.

Rogue launches by NK hitting US cities should be the concerns, not the NK regime being taken out. 

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Just now, flyboy56 said:

Rogue launches by NK hitting US cities should be the concerns, not the NK regime being taken out. 

Any attack coming from NK directed at the US, SK, or Japan will almost certainly result in a war that will destroy Kim Jung Un's regime.   I can't make it any clearer than that.

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30 minutes ago, flyboy56 said:

Why is it so hard for people to understand NK is still living in the 50's and the war is still going on for them? The regime does not want to be left alone, they want to finish what they set out to do. 

Or perhaps the regime realizes now more than ever that the best way for them to hold onto power is to become a nuclear power?  Unless you think they are morons and haven't seen what happened to Iraq, who had no nuclear weaapons, or Gaddafi, who gave up his nukes.

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Just now, SemiAuto said:

Any attack coming from NK directed at the US, SK, or Japan will almost certainly result in a war that will destroy Kim Jung Un's regime.   I can't make it any clearer than that.

Kim Jung Un may or may not be crazy, but one thing is for certain, the people around him don't want to die anymore than anyone else.  I have a feeling that if push comes to shove they'll make sure to do what's necessary so that they aren't obliterated.

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22 minutes ago, banner1124 said:

Or perhaps the regime realizes now more than ever that the best way for them to hold onto power is to become a nuclear power?  Unless you think they are morons and haven't seen what happened to Iraq, who had no nuclear weaapons, or Gaddafi, who gave up his nukes.

NK's weapons program dates back to the 80's. 

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Just now, flyboy56 said:

NK's weapons program dates back to the 80's. 

Please stop throwing up that strawman.  No one is arguing that they just started their nuclear program.  The point is how likely would you be to give it up if it's been made abundantly clear that having one is about the only way for your regime to stay in power?

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This has too high of a probability of sucking.

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1 hour ago, banner1124 said:

Or perhaps the regime realizes now more than ever that the best way for them to hold onto power is to become a nuclear power?  Unless you think they are morons and haven't seen what happened to Iraq, who had no nuclear weaapons, or Gaddafi, who gave up his nukes.

You have a point.  There is little incentive for Kim to give up his nukes after seeing what the US did with Gaddafi, who gave up his nukes and was trying to improve relations with the US.  Foolish foreign policy mistake driven by Hillary Clinton.  So if NK has been paying attention, they have seen Bush label them part of the axis of evil, Obama disregard Gaddafi's attempts at better relations with the west, and now see Trump who they can only view as a totally loose cannon.  Why would they have any incentive to play nice with the US?  Past history may lead them to believe they could be destroyed either way.  

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2 minutes ago, cprenegade said:

You have a point.  There is little incentive for Kim to give up his nukes after seeing what the US did with Gaddafi, who gave up his nukes and was trying to improve relations with the US.  Foolish foreign policy mistake driven by Hillary Clinton.  So if NK has been paying attention, they have seen Bush label them part of the axis of evil, Obama disregard Gaddafi's attempts at better relations with the west, and now see Trump who they can only view as a totally loose cannon.  Why would they have any incentive to play nice with the US?  Past history may lead them to believe they could be destroyed either way.  

This!

Plus  the fact that the US is the only nation to have ever used nuclear weapons against another nation. What does anyone honestly expect, that other nations do not obtain the means to defend and protect themselves if they are able to?

Maybe now the US and the ROTW will treat North Korea with a little respect and sit around a table and talk to them, instead of just calling them a nation of madmen. 

A new chapter begins ...

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2 hours ago, gonzoliberal said:

That's the big question,isn't it?

So-called negotiations with the Chinese have not been encouraging, nor have Tillotson's remarks.

'Little Kim' is likely to shoot off another 'harmless' test.

What should US's response to such an event be?

What about uninhabited allied real estate?

...or a nuke anywhere but under their own dirt?

Trump has threatened 'fire and fury' if provoked.  

 

Not addressing you personally; these are just questions that have been rattling around our table of late.

IMO,

- another launch really doesn't change the calculus on the ground.  We know they can launch, they've told us they will not be dissuaded, so while another launch may be.a slap in the face, we've been slapped before.

- our response to a strike on uninhabited allied real estate should be treated as an act of war and our response should be the most aggressive possible under the terms of whatever treaty binds us.

- our response to a nuke is the same as above.  

"Fire and fury" may be a good bumper sticker, but this is too important to allow emotion into the equation.

China is the lynchpin in this event.  We need to convince China to stop this fool, but China needs to be able to do this without being seen as kowtowing to the US.  

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32 minutes ago, WKDWZD said:

This!

Plus  the fact that the US is the only nation to have ever used nuclear weapons against another nation. What does anyone honestly expect, that other nations do not obtain the means to defend and protect themselves if they are able to?

Maybe now the US and the ROTW will treat North Korea with a little respect and sit around a table and talk to them, instead of just calling them a nation of madmen. 

A new chapter begins ...

They are a nation of madmen - but that doesn't mean we should not sit down with them one on one.

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46 minutes ago, Ode2Joy said:

North Korea says it will preemptively strike Guam.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-usa-idUSKBN1AO2L9

So should the U.S. just surrender now or act while the threat is still at an early stage? 

Nobody wants a war except, it seems, Kim and NK. 

He who shoots first, dies next...

 

MOTR... Yes, China is the wild card.

If Little Kim really does something 'crazy', like nuke Guam,all bets are off...

...and I hope China knows that.

 

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Posted (edited)

Let's all assume there will be no unexpected complications from what we see as an upcoming easy win for a scandal-plagued president over a small, backwards, and despotic asian country overseas.

How'd that work out for us last time?

Edited by Calamari

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Quote

President Donald Trump's warning Tuesday that North Korea "will be met with fire and fury" if it continues its saber rattling sparked new fears that the standoff over the regime's advancing nuclear and missile programs could devolve into a shooting war.

The seemingly off-the-cuff broadside also reignited concerns raised during the presidential campaign that Trump's tough rhetoric, including his previous calls to build up the American nuclear arsenal, could be dangerously destabilizing.

"The greatest North Korean threat we face is not from a nuclear-tipped missile hitting the U.S. mainland but from Washington stumbling into an inadvertent nuclear war on the Korean peninsula," Siegfried Hecker, a former director of Los Alamos National Laboratory and a nuclear expert who has visited North Korea seven times since 2004, said in an email. "The president's statements exacerbate" such concerns, Hecker said.

Link.

Sooooo... we're going to nuke North Korea if it continues its saber-rattling? They've rattled their friggin sabers every day for decades! How about our president just keep his mouth shut and let the professionals in the State Dept and Pentagon handle it.

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2 minutes ago, Calamari said:

Let's all assume there will be no unexpected complications from what we see as an upcoming easy win for a scandal-plagued president over a small, backwards, and despotic asian country overseas.

How'd that work out for us last time?

I sure don't assume that, even for a second.  Everything will go wrong, nothing will be easy and while NK is small, despotic and backward, they have a large, capable miltary, are more than willing to use it, and will have first strike advantage.

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2 minutes ago, regularguy said:

Link.

Sooooo... we're going to nuke North Korea if it continues its saber-rattling? They've rattled their friggin sabers every day for decades! How about our president just keep his mouth shut and let the professionals in the State Dept and Pentagon handle it.

Among other things, NK wants to be seen as an equal.  Sending Pence or the SoS to NK is a low cost expenditure to maybe stave off a war that will kill at least a million SKs.  Seems reasonable.

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14 minutes ago, gonzoliberal said:

He who shoots first, dies next...

 

MOTR... Yes, China is the wild card.

If Little Kim really does something 'crazy', like nuke Guam,all bets are off...

...and I hope China knows that.

 

An attack on Guam, even a conventional attack, is an act of war.

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33 minutes ago, MiddleOfTheRoad said:

They are a nation of madmen - but that doesn't mean we should not sit down with them one on one.

That is your opinion, one that I don't share.

An outsider looking a Kim Jong-un and Donald Trump would be hard pressed to figure out which one was maddest.

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24 minutes ago, MiddleOfTheRoad said:

An attack on Guam, even a conventional attack, is an act of war.

So it's a win-win for Trump (at least in what passes for his mind) if he manages to goad NK into attacking it.

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32 minutes ago, MiddleOfTheRoad said:

An attack on Guam, even a conventional attack, is an act of war.

Agreed.  I hope China can back this down 

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8 minutes ago, Calamari said:

So it's a win-win for Trump (at least in what passes for his mind) if he manages to goad NK into attacking it.

Very concerned about that.  Trump would love to have his own little war.  Of course he would not understand or care about the long term results

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9 minutes ago, demopublican said:

Very concerned about that.  Trump would love to have his own little war.  Of course he would not understand or care about the long term results

A disastrous war that ruined America would rid him of his debts and absolve him of his crimes entirely.

He will sit in his safe, cozy, gold-plated bunker and flee to Russia if it gets hot.

Russia, if anyone cares to notice, would love for this to happen.

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