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RalR

Some former US spies don't buy russia hoax

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In 2003, when a number of former intelligence professionals formed a group to protest the way intelligence was bent to accuse Iraq of producing weapons of mass destruction, New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof wrote a sympathetic column quoting the group's members. In 2017, you won't read about this same group's latest campaign in the big U.S. newspapers.

The Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS) have been investigating the now conventional wisdom that last year's leaks of Democratic National Committee files were the result of Russian hacks. What they found instead is evidence to the contrary.

Unlike the "current and former intelligence officials" anonymously quoted in stories about the Trump-Russia scandal, VIPS members actually have names. But their findings and doubts are only being aired by non-mainstream publications that are easy to accuse of being channels for Russian disinformation. The Nation, Consortium News, ZeroHedge and other outlets have pointed to their findings that at least some of the DNC files were taken by an insider rather than by hackers, Russian or otherwise.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-08-10/why-some-u-s-ex-spies-don-t-buy-the-russia-story

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- Hoax used as an excuse for election loss -

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Do they offer an alternative theory on "who" did it if not Russia? 

The DNC wasn't the only organization that got hacked. There was also the Podesta emails, the DCCC, the Voting Machine manufacturer, and several State Election Databases.

Who other than Russia had the motive, means, and opportunity? 

Edited by soulflower

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1 hour ago, RalR said:

No election collusion  Emails were leaked by DNC insider who was not happy how DNC rigged primiaries against Sanders

 

http://yournewswire.com/stanford-university-confirm-democratic-election-fraud/

 

Why was Wasserman let go by dnc

What about the other people who were Hacked?

The DCCC, John Podesta, State Election Databases, Voting Machine companies? What's the theory on who did those things?

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1 hour ago, soulflower said:

What about the other people who were Hacked?

The DCCC, John Podesta, State Election Databases, Voting Machine companies? What's the theory on who did those things?

John Podesta was never "hacked". He was dumb enough to fall prey to a phishing scam, that ultimately landed his emails in the hands of Wikileaks. Nine months later, and you're still peddling this crap? 

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13 minutes ago, volperdinger said:

John Podesta was never "hacked". He was dumb enough to fall prey to a phishing scam, that ultimately landed his emails in the hands of Wikileaks. Nine months later, and you're still peddling this crap? 

Do you want address the other organizations I listed or no? 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, soulflower said:

Do you want address the other organizations I listed or no? 

I'm trying to decipher your attempt at English, I don't  need an address, but feel free to answer to answer the question I posed specifically about John Podesta.  

Edited by volperdinger

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I don't think there is any question that Russia was behind all of these things.  Two things are still in question.  First, was the actual vote total affected by any of there activities?  So far, I haven't seen any proof that votes were changed or nullified by any Russian activity.   Second, was the Trump campaign or Trump himself actively involved in any of this activity.  I will let the investigations figure that out.  Otherwise, hacking and releasing emails, or planting fake news propaganda stories, that's on us to counter.  Especially since we have done the same things to other countries.  If the Russians did affect the outcome of the election it was because they successfully figured out America's fascination with social media and were able to run a psych ops game that got the job done.  It's up to us to figure that problem out.  And if we knew this was happening during the campaign and did nothing about it, then that is on us too.  

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13 minutes ago, cprenegade said:

I don't think there is any question that Russia was behind all of these things.  Two things are still in question.  First, was the actual vote total affected by any of there activities?  So far, I haven't seen any proof that votes were changed or nullified by any Russian activity.   Second, was the Trump campaign or Trump himself actively involved in any of this activity.  I will let the investigations figure that out.  Otherwise, hacking and releasing emails, or planting fake news propaganda stories, that's on us to counter.  Especially since we have done the same things to other countries.  If the Russians did affect the outcome of the election it was because they successfully figured out America's fascination with social media and were able to run a psych ops game that got the job done.  It's up to us to figure that problem out.  And if we knew this was happening during the campaign and did nothing about it, then that is on us too.  

There's no question that Russia was helping Trump. 

Maybe it didn't affect the outcome of the election. 

There's a ton we don't know 

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19 minutes ago, soulflower said:

There's no question that Russia was helping Trump. 

Maybe it didn't affect the outcome of the election. 

There's a ton we don't know 

I don't disagree that Russia was helping Trump.  But were they helping Trump because that is who they preferred to win or because Trump was working with them?  Big difference.  The US has done things to tilt many elections, especially in South America.  I wouldn't say it didn't affect the outcome.  The propaganda may have been very effective.  Without it, the result might have been different.  But as long as voting machines weren't hacked and votes actually manipulated, no harm no foul.  You can't really be pissed off when you get punked with the same tactics you have used on others in the past.  The big question I would have is that if this was known while the campaign was underway, why was it kept a secret?  Maybe knowing about it might have changed the outcome.  That is on the last administration.  

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8 hours ago, cprenegade said:

I don't disagree that Russia was helping Trump.  But were they helping Trump because that is who they preferred to win or because Trump was working with them?  Big difference.  The US has done things to tilt many elections, especially in South America.  I wouldn't say it didn't affect the outcome.  The propaganda may have been very effective.  Without it, the result might have been different.  But as long as voting machines weren't hacked and votes actually manipulated, no harm no foul.  You can't really be pissed off when you get punked with the same tactics you have used on others in the past.  The big question I would have is that if this was known while the campaign was underway, why was it kept a secret?  Maybe knowing about it might have changed the outcome.  That is on the last administration.  

Obama wanted to make a bi-Partisan statement about Russian interference during the election. Mitch McConnell said No. 

Obama correctly assumed that his statement would have less credibility if it was made by his administration alone without the support of Republicans...

The Atlantic:

...the White House was probably afraid of looking like it was tipping the scale in Hillary Clinton’s favor, especially in an election that her opponent repeatedly described as rigged. Though Obama stumped for Clinton around the country, the administration didn’t want to open him up to attacks that he unfairly used intelligence to undermine Trump’s campaign, the Post reported.

Instead, top White House officials gathered key lawmakers—leadership from the House and Senate, plus the top Democrats and Republicans from both houses’ intelligence and homeland security committees—to ask for a bipartisan condemnation of Russia’s meddling. The effort was stymied by several Republicans who weren’t willing to cooperate, including, reportedly, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. (On Sunday morning (Dec 2016), a bipartisan statement condemning the hacks came from incoming Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, Jack Reed, a Democrat, and Republicans John McCain and Lindsey Graham.)


It’s also possible that the administration, like most pollsters and pundits, was overconfident in its assessment that Clinton would win the election. Officials may have been more willing to lob incendiary accusations—and risk setting off a serious political or cyber conflict with Russia—if they had thought Trump had a good chance to win.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/12/why-didnt-obama-reveal-intel-about-russias-influence-on-the-election/510242/

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18 hours ago, soulflower said:

What about the other people who were Hacked?

The DCCC, John Podesta, State Election Databases, Voting Machine companies? What's the theory on who did those things?

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/08/homeland-security-tied-to-attempted-hack-of-georgias-election-database-report.html

 

Everything you ask for is online use indy media for all real news

 

6 companies control msm news remember that

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Posted (edited)

Report: Russia hacked election systems in 39 US states

Russia's US election meddling was much more widespread than the public has been told, according to a report from Bloomberg. Hackers attacked voting systems in 39 states, accessed campaign finance databases in one state and tried to delete or alter voter data in Illinois. While officials don't believe the attackers changed any results, the situation was serious enough that President Obama took the unusual step of complaining to the Kremlin on "red phone" back channels.

After the November elections, officials in the Obama administration accused Russian President Vladimir Putin of attacking the US election and imposed sanctions on the nation. Reuters later reported that the FBI was conducting three separate investigations into Russian election hacking that targeted Democrat party workers.

The latest reports from unnamed US officials, however, suggest that things were actually worse than thought. In July of 2016, Illinois election officials discovered a breach in the voter database, which led investigators to IP addresses and other digital signatures. Investigators subsequently discovered similar signs of attacks in 37 other US states.

 

https://www.engadget.com/2017/06/13/report-russia-hacked-election-systems-in-39-us-states/

Edited by Baltimatt
Too long a quote

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20 hours ago, soulflower said:

Do they offer an alternative theory on "who" did it if not Russia? 

The DNC wasn't the only organization that got hacked. There was also the Podesta emails, the DCCC, the Voting Machine manufacturer, and several State Election Databases.

Who other than Russia had the motive, means, and opportunity?

I try to stay away from these "Russian hacked the _____ " because, as someone else points, the only thing that really is important is if Trump colluded; all of the rest is on our shoulders.

The line I bolded just cracked me up. Who other than Russia had the motive, means and opportunity?  Just about every teenage hacker out there.  The motive?  Because they can.  The opportunity?  Just 24/7/365.  The means?  Cracking an unsecured server is not all that difficult.

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2 minutes ago, MiddleOfTheRoad said:

I try to stay away from these "Russian hacked the _____ " because, as someone else points, the only thing that really is important is if Trump colluded; all of the rest is on our shoulders.

The line I bolded just cracked me up. Who other than Russia had the motive, means and opportunity?  Just about every teenage hacker out there.  The motive?  Because they can.  The opportunity?  Just 24/7/365.  The means?  Cracking an unsecured server is not all that difficult.

It was probably a 400-pound teenager with nothing better to do. :D

 

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1 minute ago, ncbirdfan said:

It was probably a 400-pound teenager with nothing better to do. :D

 

It probably was the Russians, but that line was so silly I had to respond - and now I'm out of this silly thread.

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Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, MiddleOfTheRoad said:

I try to stay away from these "Russian hacked the _____ " because, as someone else points, the only thing that really is important is if Trump colluded; all of the rest is on our shoulders.

The line I bolded just cracked me up. Who other than Russia had the motive, means and opportunity?  Just about every teenage hacker out there.  The motive?  Because they can.  The opportunity?  Just 24/7/365.  The means?  Cracking an unsecured server is not all that difficult.

You really think one teenage hacker could attack Voter Databases in 39 States? 

The level of coordination is not something that could be accomplished by one person. 

Edited by soulflower

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Just now, MiddleOfTheRoad said:

It probably was the Russians, but that line was so silly I had to respond - and now I'm out of this silly thread.

It was not original. That was what Trump has said. I'm just repeating it.

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1 minute ago, soulflower said:

You really think one teenage hacker could attack Voter Databases in 39 States? 

Nope.  Do you really think there is one teenage hacker out there?

As I responded to NCBF, it probably was the Russians but your reasoning was, frankly, silly.

And now again, I am it of this thread.

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11 minutes ago, MiddleOfTheRoad said:

Nope.  Do you really think there is one teenage hacker out there?

As I responded to NCBF, it probably was the Russians but your reasoning was, frankly, silly.

And now again, I am it of this thread.

Maybe my comment should've been more detailed. I was referring to the all the coordinated cyber attacks on the Democrats as well as cyber attacks on Voter info. I think that type of high level cyber warfare could only be executed by a foreign government 

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11 minutes ago, soulflower said:

Maybe my comment should've been more detailed. I was referring to the all the coordinated cyber attacks on the Democrats as well as cyber attacks on Voter info. I think that type of high level cyber warfare could only be executed by a foreign government 

I agree. And it is ridiculous to state that it was a teenager or even several teenagers who orchestrated it. But then some people will believe anything I guess.

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57 minutes ago, ncbirdfan said:

I agree. And it is ridiculous to state that it was a teenager or even several teenagers who orchestrated it. But then some people will believe anything I guess.

Did someone state that on this thread?  Please point it out to me so I join you in chastising them.  

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17 minutes ago, MiddleOfTheRoad said:

Did someone state that on this thread?  Please point it out to me so I join you in chastising them.  

Wow. I have to narrow it down to this specific thread? :lol:

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2 minutes ago, ncbirdfan said:

Wow. I have to narrow it down to this specific thread? :lol:

That's what I thought.

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