soulflower

Immigration crackdown leads to Farm worker shortage in CA

62 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, hst2 said:

I exceed the speed limit everyday, and walk my dog without a leash. Should I be deprived of a livelihood because it would be "rewarding law breakers".

When you get caught doing either of those.  There are charges.  Minor as they may be, still charges.  Then again, your dog could attack someone or you could kill someone by speeding.  Then the charges won't be so minor.

So depending upon your savings, you may or may not be deprived of a livelihood.

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3 hours ago, hst2 said:

I exceed the speed limit everyday, and walk my dog without a leash. Should I be deprived of a livelihood because it would be "rewarding law breakers".

Sure.

After a day or two w/o an income I bet you'd obey the speed and leash laws.

And I bet if all the able bodied folks on welfare were to lose their payments unless they got a job you'd have plenty of lettuce pickers.

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, FatBoy said:

The U.S. farmer then must provide transportation... meals and housing.

Well DAMN!

If farmers go through all this for people who live in other countries., then imagine if they did this for continental unemployed Americans, or students looking for summer jobs.

Fish might bite.

Edited by EL-FLIPPO

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Interestingly, there are plenty of jobs available to immigrants, "illegal" or otherwise, at wages Americans won't accept. If you want Americans to take these jobs, the wages should be raised.

"But as readers of this column have heard me say before, one of the big—perhaps the biggest—problem in the labor market today is that employers aren’t willing to pay people enough to fill their open positions. And this is happening even as they must fill a record number of openings. Hiring today means you have to convince someone to leave their job, leave school, or get off the couch. And if the incentive isn’t sufficiently large, it is hard to find a new employee.

...It’s not just happening in rural areas. At the end of June, there were 225,000 open positions in construction, up 31 percent from 171,000 in June 2016; 723,000 open positions in accommodations and food services (hotels and restaurants), up 12 percent from June 2016, and more than 1 million in trade, transportation, and utilities (which includes retail).

When you operate in a market, you have to keep raising your price until someone is willing to accept your bid. But for the last several years, American employers have steadfastly refused to raise wages. And now their stinginess is catching up with them. In many instances, employers simply aren’t offering sufficient incentives for people to apply for their jobs, show up to interviews, accept their offers, or show up to work. Some number of people would prefer the low level of income they have, or no income at all, to doing the work on offer at the wages listed. As Minneapolis Fed President Neel Kashkari told a group of businesspeople earlier this week, “If you’re not raising wages, then it just sounds like whining.”"

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5 hours ago, hst2 said:

I exceed the speed limit everyday, and walk my dog without a leash. Should I be deprived of a livelihood because it would be "rewarding law breakers".

A false equivalency.  All crimes are not the same.  Do we put shoplifters in jail for life like we do murderers?  The crime of exceeding the speed limit or walking a dog without a leash is not as serious as entering a country illegally.  Still we do not jail people who have entered the country illegally.  We simply deport them back to the country they originally came from where they are free to begin the legal process of coming to the United States of America.  

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1 hour ago, hst2 said:

Interestingly, there are plenty of jobs available to immigrants, "illegal" or otherwise, at wages Americans won't accept. If you want Americans to take these jobs, the wages should be raised.

"But as readers of this column have heard me say before, one of the big—perhaps the biggest—problem in the labor market today is that employers aren’t willing to pay people enough to fill their open positions. And this is happening even as they must fill a record number of openings. Hiring today means you have to convince someone to leave their job, leave school, or get off the couch. And if the incentive isn’t sufficiently large, it is hard to find a new employee.

...It’s not just happening in rural areas. At the end of June, there were 225,000 open positions in construction, up 31 percent from 171,000 in June 2016; 723,000 open positions in accommodations and food services (hotels and restaurants), up 12 percent from June 2016, and more than 1 million in trade, transportation, and utilities (which includes retail).

When you operate in a market, you have to keep raising your price until someone is willing to accept your bid. But for the last several years, American employers have steadfastly refused to raise wages. And now their stinginess is catching up with them. In many instances, employers simply aren’t offering sufficient incentives for people to apply for their jobs, show up to interviews, accept their offers, or show up to work. Some number of people would prefer the low level of income they have, or no income at all, to doing the work on offer at the wages listed. As Minneapolis Fed President Neel Kashkari told a group of businesspeople earlier this week, “If you’re not raising wages, then it just sounds like whining.”"

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Won't disagree with this.  If you can't find people to do the work needed to be done, then you might have to increase the salary you are offering.  

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5 hours ago, cprenegade said:

Won't disagree with this.  If you can't find people to do the work needed to be done, then you might have to increase the salary you are offering.  

And that's called "supply & demand". Farmers ignore this maxim to their own detriment.

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17 hours ago, soulflower said:

Why aren't Trump's "forgotten men" filling these job openings? 

Pay too low and conditions not acceptable to American standards 

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19 hours ago, FatBoy said:

Temporary foreign farm workers do not get green cards. The legal path for them is the H2A visa. 

There is also an H1A visa that works the same way, except it's for non farm workers.

Donny's various businesses use lots of these types of workers. Not that there is anything wrong with that. 

 

Thank you.  I've seen people push around that term "green card" rather loosely in this thread. 

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57 minutes ago, Baltimatt said:

Thank you.  I've seen people push around that term "green card" rather loosely in this thread. 

Right. And renewing visas. They seem to think it's like renewing a driver's license. It's handy, though. It allows them to adopt an untenable position on immigration without admitting that they simply don't want them here.

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17 hours ago, hst2 said:

I exceed the speed limit everyday, and walk my dog without a leash. Should I be deprived of a livelihood because it would be "rewarding law breakers".

There's a penalty for speeding, just like there's a penalty for violating immigration law. Next question.

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Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

There's a penalty for speeding, just like there's a penalty for violating immigration law. Next question.

Predictabily simplistic and self-serving answer.

The issue is, as a law breaker, should I be rewarded for it through gainful employment.

Clearly, no.

Obama's policy was a pretty good approach to this issue, in the face of an utterly dysfunctional Congress.

Trump's approach serves to appeal to basest, most simplistic instincts, but as we see from this thread topic, utterly against our national interest.

Edited by hst2

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