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AgentOrange

The Gilman Rehab Project

84 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, jbmad said:

I don't believe that at all. What he wanted was total control of who he wanted to get into the school to play football, without having to answer to anyone including the MIAA. You know as well as I do they had a couple of 5th year guys play last year. Your a city guy so you know at least one of them. He also wanted to be able to control grades.  Funny thing to me is everyone says he is getting guys to school. Most of the guys he brings in already  have multiple offers, talk about taking credit for someone else's work 

We are pretty much on the same page here....  

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6 minutes ago, AgentOrange said:

....he was also upset because his teams lacked heart and often enough turned soft in the face of challenges....Biff felt he needed tougher players....

That was more likely The DayWalker who questioned Gilman's heart ---- Recall my chants for bravehearts and warriors needed at Roland Park.  Yes, that was me who opined GA, g-Spot, and the rest lacked heart.  Now was I correct AO?  I still see GA lack heart.  He will no longer Come Walk With Me.....but rather go gangsta and beat up my friends in Columbia...

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2 minutes ago, DayWalker said:

That was more likely The DayWalker who questioned Gilman's heart ---- Recall my chants for bravehearts and warriors needed at Roland Park.  Yes, that was me who opined GA, g-Spot, and the rest lacked heart.  Now was I correct AO?  I still see GA lack heart.  He will no longer Come Walk With Me.....but rather go gangsta and beat up my friends in Columbia...

I found out about Biffs concerns when he tried to schedule scrimmages against City league teams...although a real game situation would  not have worked out In Edmondson or Bcc's favor, Biff wanted to use them as whipping boys as both teams had the reputation for laying wood on D and dominating scrimmages....

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26 minutes ago, jbmad said:

I don't believe that at all. What he wanted was total control of who he wanted to get into the school to play football, without having to answer to anyone including the MIAA. You know as well as I do they had a couple of 5th year guys play last year. Your a city guy so you know at least one of them. He also wanted to be able to control grades.  Funny thing to me is everyone says he is getting guys to school. Most of the guys he brings in already  have multiple offers, talk about taking credit for someone else's work 

Exactly - if Biff wanted inner city kids, he would focus on recruiting and developing them.  The reality is that he and his staff recruit multiple states and every county in MD and focus on talent, not demographics.

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1 minute ago, gillytech said:

Exactly - if Biff wanted inner city kids, he would focus on recruiting and developing them.  The reality is that he and his staff recruit multiple states and every county in MD and focus on talent, not demographics.

Biff is not interested in developing anyone, he takes kids who already have offers puts them together to win games and then takes credit for getting them into college.  He is more interested in winning football game and blowing up his already big head. 

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2 hours ago, GREYHOUND ALUM said:

This was without a doubt about Biff asking for a certain number of guarenteed slots. This isn't up for debate, this is a fact.

Who cares what Biff has done, you can't bring in a C or whatever average kid to a school like Gilman! It's damn near child abuse, and helping no one. There is other schools for that, not Gilman. 

 

Edited by DMVfootballwizard

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So school a vamp, what pack of kids did Biff bring in who couldn't cut it academically at Gilman because a copy Gilman's guy here NEVER related there were classroom issues going on during those balling to the max years.  In fact, they touted how major scholar colleges recruited the lot of Gilman we were told end up at Goldman-Sachs, Legg-Mason, and many of the finer institutions on wall street and elsewhere.  I mean Biff / Gilman was churning out future major success stories by the dawg pooper shovel load according to some.  So now we are saying that was not the case and we were lied to by the very some lot now telling us Biff and his scheme to dominate the world Gilman bought into for a while is at prime fault.  Come on G guys, school a vamp who thirst for knowledge....  <_<

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No, what I and others have said about Gilman's academics generally and regarding the football program specifically were accurate - the problem was that Biff wasn't satisfied with the status quo and demanded more control and a quota of X football players per class that he alone decided upon.  Gilman's headmaster told Biff that the number of football players admitted would depend on their academic credentials and the school's overall admissions process, so in reality some years he would get the number of football players he wanted admitted, but other years he wouldn't.  That wasn't good enough for Biff so he claimed Gilman was racist, took his ball and left.

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27 minutes ago, gillytech said:

No, what I and others have said about Gilman's academics generally and regarding the football program specifically were accurate - the problem was that Biff wasn't satisfied with the status quo and demanded more control and a quota of X football players per class that he alone decided upon.  Gilman's headmaster told Biff that the number of football players admitted would depend on their academic credentials and the school's overall admissions process, so in reality some years he would get the number of football players he wanted admitted, but other years he wouldn't.  That wasn't good enough for Biff so he claimed Gilman was racist, took his ball and left.

So perhaps Biff learned the real deal of the admissions network to Gilman like being the son of a prominent city/state official, or attorney, or businessman.  You know the networking your lot talk about so much to even secure big time jobs without merit by merely being a "Gilman guy" as GA talks about folks in another area call getting a "hook up".  Maybe Biff knew how business was really done there and wanted his own setup like others could do to get who they wanted in like a simple phone call to the right person who could in-turn grease the skids in admissions.  To The DayWalker, this all sounds like what Malcolm talked about in "...when chickens come home to roost..."

So what Biff wouldn't agree to and departed with his claims you just articulated, remind me again of how many other coaches also bolted with Biff, and I understand McGregor was one.  So how many others not including Biff flew the coop?

Edited by DayWalker

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1 hour ago, DayWalker said:

So perhaps Biff learned the real deal of the admissions network to Gilman like being the son of a prominent city/state official, or attorney, or businessman.  You know the networking your lot talk about so much to even secure big time jobs without merit by merely being a "Gilman guy" as GA talks about folks in another area call getting a "hook up".  Maybe Biff knew how business was really done there and wanted his own setup like others could do to get who they wanted in like a simple phone call to the right person who could in-turn grease the skids in admissions.  To The DayWalker, this all sounds like what Malcolm talked about in "...when chickens come home to roost..."

So what Biff wouldn't agree to and departed with his claims you just articulated, remind me again of how many other coaches also bolted with Biff, and I understand McGregor was one.  So how many others not including Biff flew the coop?

That's because he was paying there salaries,  he basically owned them boys who call themselves men, as seen with his current co head coach

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1 hour ago, jbmad said:

That's because he was paying there salaries,  he basically owned them boys who call themselves men, as seen with his current co head coach

Unless you are independently wealthy or self-employed you too were once "owned" or are "owned" by employer.  Some even supplement their income with part-time jobs like the Gilman assistant coaches.

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8 hours ago, GREYHOUND ALUM said:

Yes, this is very true. The issue was all about the admission process, and Biff wanting to circumvent it. 

I don't know if Gilman can go back to the old model, because I don't know if there's many of those sort of multisport athletes left. We're in the age of specialization. It's sad IMO, because I absolutely believe that kids benefit more from playing more than one sport. You will always have a few studs, but I don't know if you can compete in the A with those sort of athletes anymore. 

GA, in you anger about Gilman's meal ticket leaving for broken glass and condom-filled pastures you posted about Trump rally town halls at Gilman where black students got a real taste of what Gilman blue bloods thought of them.  Do you recant that post?

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2 hours ago, gillytech said:

They all did except 1-2 if I recall correctly.

Okay and all is how many I asked, 3-4-5, how many?  I want to know how many others sided with Biff said to go because Biff was the employer and not Gilman.  So not only did Gilman benefit from athletes it allowed in who merely took empty available seats to play football and bring great accolades to Gilman at little or no cost, but Gilman got a football coaching staff it also paid nothing to very little.  What a deal I would say.  No wanted Biff wanted more control if this was what was going on.  Gilman should have known you got to give the devil its due.....  This kinda reminds me of the play / movie Damn Yankee where a sports jock made a deal with the devil to be a stellar athlete.  The player was all in until he had to give the devil his due....his soul.  Damn Gilman, The DayWalker would think you would run a better operation than this....

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2 hours ago, jbmad said:

That's because he was paying there salaries,  he basically owned them boys who call themselves men, as seen with his current co head coach

I feel you insanemadman but tell me, do the coaches at Loyola work for Loyola or paid/employed by a third-party?  Would Loyola do what Gilman did with a person like Biff?  Was Loyola ever driven to win at any cost like Gilman?

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Some are teachers at the school and some just work for the school as coaches. To answer your question about would they like Gilman, no because Biff applied for the head coaching job at Loyola  a few years back and was shown the door when he showed up in flip flops and shorts. Also the new Ryken coach applied for job this year but wanted Biff like considerations

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46 minutes ago, TheGuru said:

GA, in you anger about Gilman's meal ticket leaving for broken glass and condom-filled pastures you posted about Trump rally town halls at Gilman where black students got a real taste of what Gilman blue bloods thought of them.  Do you recant that post?

That's two different things! They don't have to be mutually exclusive. Poggi leaving had to do with the reasons that Gilly spelled out. But yes, they're plenty of people who didn't like the changing of the color of the team. It wasn't the reason he left, nor the reason the administration wanted him to leave. And I said that many times on here when it happened. People's true colors just showed afterwards. Kind of like when Trump was elected. 

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14 hours ago, DayWalker said:

Okay and all is how many I asked, 3-4-5, how many?  I want to know how many others sided with Biff said to go because Biff was the employer and not Gilman.  So not only did Gilman benefit from athletes it allowed in who merely took empty available seats to play football and bring great accolades to Gilman at little or no cost, but Gilman got a football coaching staff it also paid nothing to very little.  What a deal I would say.  No wanted Biff wanted more control if this was what was going on.  Gilman should have known you got to give the devil its due.....  This kinda reminds me of the play / movie Damn Yankee where a sports jock made a deal with the devil to be a stellar athlete.  The player was all in until he had to give the devil his due....his soul.  Damn Gilman, The DayWalker would think you would run a better operation than this....

With the exception of people who I'd classify as Gilman lifers (Holley, Foreman, Gouline, Wilson), the whole staff left with Poggi, including McGreggor, Baucia, Russell, White, Kormanik, Payne, etc.  That being said, the majority of the staff leaving with Poggi was a consequence Gilman anticipated and somewhat desired since Poggi's staff had for years operated outside the traditional Gilman teacher-coach model (ie - where all coaches have teaching or admin. roles within the school).

With regard to your comment that football athletes "merely took empty available seats", that is incorrect.  Every year, Gilman has dozens of qualified applicants for each available spot in the student body, so it wasn't like the football players were simply filling otherwise empty spots.

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2 minutes ago, gillytech said:

With the exception of people who I'd classify as Gilman lifers (Holley, Foreman, Gouline, Wilson), the whole staff left with Poggi, including McGreggor, Baucia, Russell, White, Kormanik, Payne, etc.  That being said, the majority of the staff leaving with Poggi was a consequence Gilman anticipated and somewhat desired since Poggi's staff had for years operated outside the traditional Gilman teacher-coach model (ie - where all coaches have teaching or admin. roles within the school).

With regard to your comment that football athletes "merely took empty available seats", that is incorrect.  Every year, Gilman has dozens of qualified applicants for each available spot in the student body, so it wasn't like the football players were simply filling otherwise empty spots.

Okay, I understand what you are saying.  I'm just stuck in the mud to now hear it was Poggi's insistence on having complete autonomy on fooball player recruitment when GA convinced me that Biff merely wanted to leave Gilman.  It was also essentially said that the headmaster had approached Poggi about getting more involved in Gilman's admission process and now you all are saying the headmaster wanted Poggi out of the admission mix and that launched Poggi.  So it is the inconsistent statements and floating Gilman talking points to perhaps better shine light on Gilman while placing a cloud over Biff who paid for Gilman coaches, paid or assisted on the tuition of Gilman players, etc etc and Gilman greatly benefited in what Poggi had done until as I see, Tyrone was playing and Kyle was not.  Moreover, I recall even you proclaimed NOT A SINGLE player Biff "bought in" failed to keep pace with the general Gilman population in the class room and I specifically recall you pointed to who went the Stanford.  So the headmaster should not have questioned the quality of the players Biff brought into Gilman GA called would be child abuse for any unprepared kid to attend Gilman.  Some name like Feritta or something like that was cited as the only one who met the chopping block.  And yes, I'm sure Gilman has dozens of qualifies applicants for all available seats but right now they are not D1 beasts you had when Poggi ran that pound.

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I don't think I've ever contradicted myself re: the reasons that led to Poggi leaving Gilman, but I'll try to break down the supposed inconsistencies in your post:

3 minutes ago, DayWalker said:

 It was also essentially said that the headmaster had approached Poggi about getting more involved in Gilman's admission process and now you all are saying the headmaster wanted Poggi out of the admission mix and that launched Poggi.  

Asking Poggi to be more involved in the admissions process and refusing to agree to a quota of X football players per year are not mutually exclusive.  

5 minutes ago, DayWalker said:

 floating Gilman talking points to perhaps better shine light on Gilman while placing a cloud over Biff who paid for Gilman coaches, paid or assisted on the tuition of Gilman players, etc etc and Gilman greatly benefited in what Poggi had done until as I see, Tyrone was playing and Kyle was not. 

Like I said, I've never heard alums complain about "Tyrone" playing over "Kyle" and I've never heard that issue being a basis for pushing Poggi out except on this board.  In any event, it wasn't like that became an issue towards the end of Poggi's term at Gilman, but was always the case.

9 minutes ago, DayWalker said:

I recall even you proclaimed NOT A SINGLE player Biff "bought in" failed to keep pace with the general Gilman population in the class room and I specifically recall you pointed to who went the Stanford.  So the headmaster should not have questioned the quality of the players Biff brought into Gilman GA called would be child abuse for any unprepared kid to attend Gilman.  Some name like Feritta or something like that was cited as the only one who met the chopping block.  

I don't think I ever said that no players brought in by Poggi failed to keep pace, but rather that the football players kept pace (or exceeded) the general student body academically.  2 kids from the 2015 team are now at Stanford (Dorrian Maddox and Devery Hamilton) are now at Stanford, and Poggi's teams traditionally sent players to top academic colleges like Northwestern, Duke, Wake, and the Ivies.  But that was the result of the admissions process that Poggi wanted to change in order to give himself total control over the admissions process for X number of students each year.  It was Poggi's insistence on changing the status quo to gain more control over the admissions of football players that led to the rift, not the existing process.

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13 minutes ago, gillytech said:

I don't think I've ever contradicted myself re: the reasons that led to Poggi leaving Gilman, but I'll try to break down the supposed inconsistencies in your post:

Asking Poggi to be more involved in the admissions process and refusing to agree to a quota of X football players per year are not mutually exclusive.  

Like I said, I've never heard alums complain about "Tyrone" playing over "Kyle" and I've never heard that issue being a basis for pushing Poggi out except on this board.  In any event, it wasn't like that became an issue towards the end of Poggi's term at Gilman, but was always the case.

I don't think I ever said that no players brought in by Poggi failed to keep pace, but rather that the football players kept pace (or exceeded) the general student body academically.  2 kids from the 2015 team are now at Stanford (Dorrian Maddox and Devery Hamilton) are now at Stanford, and Poggi's teams traditionally sent players to top academic colleges like Northwestern, Duke, Wake, and the Ivies.  But that was the result of the admissions process that Poggi wanted to change in order to give himself total control over the admissions process for X number of students each year.  It was Poggi's insistence on changing the status quo to gain more control over the admissions of football players that led to the rift, not the existing process.

I meant to understand you said Gilman football players followed the general pace of non-football players.  And yes I know and recall your comment about Gilman players going to Stanford and I specifically recall commenting that Maddox and Hamilton could be greeted by a player from Friendly, #4 Alameed Murphy, who went to Stanford  the season before.

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I don't think I ever said Gilman cornered the market on sending kids to great academic institutions, just that they have a strong track record of doing so.

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This is simple, there are 2 classes remaining from the "Poggi Era"  check there offers and see where they end up..... I'm pretty sure they will all go to highly academic football school....  So yes he was bring in kids who could handle the Gilman School work load.    This issue was he wanted to bring in more of them.  The school didn't want him to have that type of control.     Oh well move on its really nothing to see here.....  

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1 hour ago, HoundsDad said:

This is simple, there are 2 classes remaining from the "Poggi Era"  check there offers and see where they end up..... I'm pretty sure they will all go to highly academic football school....  So yes he was bring in kids who could handle the Gilman School work load.    This issue was he wanted to bring in more of them.  The school didn't want him to have that type of control.     Oh well move on its really nothing to see here.....  

Hey Snake, what were you saying about tossing a rock at a pack of G-dawgs and the ones who holler are probably the ones struck.....  :o

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Exactly HoundsDad, I don't understand the conflict. Gilman was ranked in the Top 20 in the final poll of 2015. The process that he started vs Bear Creek at Unitas Stadium had finally started to bear fruit and run itself. He had a great frosh class and incoming class that would have kept the machine rolling at Gilman. But that wasn't enough! He needed MORE, more studs, more recognition, more control over aspects of his alma mater contradicted the schools mission, even after they had given him and his staff more rope than any coach in the program. Like Daywalker said, they would routinely come up small under the bright national lights. I thought they turned the corner in that St. Ed's loss, that was a legit crew that should have gone undefeated that season. He wanted MORE, Gilman denied, and he bounced. He won Gilman the vaunted 100th Game vs McD and moved to the next challenge. Case closed. My major point of contention with the move was the unethical smear campaign that he and his staff launched on his alma mater on the way out. That whole crew should be persona non grata at Gilman for the way they handled the situation.

 

To his credit, Poggi has a clear vision of what he wants, how his program should look, and how to go about making that a reality. Not to mention, the resources to buy players. He has had the IMG type vision and SFA was more than willing to give him the keys to upgrade their program. Poggi got what he wanted and Gilman got what they wanted. It's just not a pretty transition for the Hounds, especially when unfairly compared to the SFA machine now in motion.

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