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RavingManiac

Dean Pees

95 posts in this topic

I think it's OK to be encouraged by the way the Ravens' defense played last Sunday, but given how abysmal Cincy's offense looked for a second straight game Thursday, it's probably wise to not get overjoyed.

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56 minutes ago, OriginalColtsFan said:

C'mon, man. You know exactly what I'm talking about. Archuletta knew exactly what he was talking about, and exactly what he saw. The corner back was on ONE page, and the safety was on ANOTHER page. And the coverage got BLOWN. And the exact same thing has been going on for years. So this is a brand new season, with the "new and improved" Ravens defense, and yet the SAME OLD PROBLEMS are reappearing. And EVERY time Harbaugh is asked about it he says the same thing: 1. "We're aware of the problem" and then he VOWS to fix it. 2. He says he needs to look at the tape. And yet it never gets fixed. His entire interaction with the media is like that of a stubborn obstinate child. And it's a COP OUT! He knows EXACTLY what went wrong, yet he DOESN'T know how to fix it. And he resents being asked "loaded" questions because of his arrogance.

Sports is sports BECAUSE it's in the public eye! To run away from the media and shun one's responsibility to the public is, unfortunately, the way things are in the 21st century, but it doesn't make it right. There is NO accountability on this team, from the owner on down. And I will not accept that.

Sure, I know what your talking about. I'm just not concerned with what Harbaugh tells the media. It could be something you and I may not even consider, and that's what's frustrating about it. That's why coaches spend hours upon hour watching tape. And really, it wouldn't be a solid break down of whatever happened until he studies the tape. Talks to the S, talks to the CB, talks to the DC, then the DB coach, figure something out then get back to us with a detailed breakdown of the problem and tell us what steps they are taking to correct it. It would be nice if he told us all that, but it ain't gonna happen. Relax my friend. I wonder what kind of answers they've been getting in places like Cleveland and Detroit.lol Even if they said "Hey, it's my fault and I don't know how to fix it, it prolly isn't gonna turn them into a SB contender. Trust me, the owner ain't a dummy. I'm sure he's having a lot of discussions with him, and he must be satisfied that they are doing everything they can to correct it, or Harbaugh and anybody else responsible would be gone. So like I said, sit back and relax, enjoy the game. Let them have the headaches over blown coverages and how to fix them. That's why they make the big bucks. Our job is to scream at the TV.B)

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On ‎9‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 0:34 PM, OriginalColtsFan said:

I've been through 3 quarters so far. The third was basically the Ravens inhaling clock with a long, time consuming drive that ended in a FG. What I did see, as I posted, was that the least effective formation so far was the non-disguised 3 man rush. (Since you and I had been discussing it. The 3 1/2 man rush was effective. And variations off of the 6 or 7 man fronts where the disguise factor was effective netted good results. The one straight up 3 man rush in the Ravens red zone, which has been present since the Super Bowl, was the least effective.)

I agree with this. There is nothing wrong with showing the three man front, but for it to be effective you gotta bring a delayed blitz, or a fake blitz now and then. But if every single time you show that front you drop 8 into zone, then the QB (if he's experienced) will know he's got all day.

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34 minutes ago, mrdeltoid said:

Sure, I know what your talking about. I'm just not concerned with what Harbaugh tells the media. It could be something you and I may not even consider, and that's what's frustrating about it. That's why coaches spend hours upon hour watching tape. And really, it wouldn't be a solid break down of whatever happened until he studies the tape. Talks to the S, talks to the CB, talks to the DC, then the DB coach, figure something out then get back to us with a detailed breakdown of the problem and tell us what steps they are taking to correct it. It would be nice if he told us all that, but it ain't gonna happen. Relax my friend. I wonder what kind of answers they've been getting in places like Cleveland and Detroit.lol Even if they said "Hey, it's my fault and I don't know how to fix it, it prolly isn't gonna turn them into a SB contender. Trust me, the owner ain't a dummy. I'm sure he's having a lot of discussions with him, and he must be satisfied that they are doing everything they can to correct it, or Harbaugh and anybody else responsible would be gone. So like I said, sit back and relax, enjoy the game. Let them have the headaches over blown coverages and how to fix them. That's why they make the big bucks. Our job is to scream at the TV.B)

I'm more concerned that he is not fixing the problem(s) no matter how many times he looks at the tape, talks to the players/coaches, and vows to fix it, than by what he says. Still, we live in an age now where talking around problems has become more "real" than actually solving problems. The Ravens have become little more than a PR machine. And I don't like it.

Look. I respect you. And I respect your opinion(s). And I respectfully disagree. I believe Harbaugh has done his best to avoid taking full responsibility for these chronic, on-going problems. I guarantee it was NOT that way with real, old time coaches like Lombardi, Landry, Parcells, and others. Furthermore, the press has the right/responsibility to continue to ask "loaded" questions, and fans have a right to voice outrage over chronic problems for which the brain trust has no solutions.

As for the owner being no dummy, just making a lot of money in a temp service agency does not make him a competent NFL owner. You've been around long enough to know -- whether or not you agree -- that Bisciotti is no Modell. His handling of the Ray Rice situation was amateurish at best. And he's already on record as stating that he doesn't care if fan dissatisfaction is as high as 20%. He values consistency. Well, when you have chronic problems going on for 5 years and counting with no apparent solution/end in sight, you've got consistency alright. Just the wrong kind.

Peace.

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31 minutes ago, mrdeltoid said:

I agree with this. There is nothing wrong with showing the three man front, but for it to be effective you gotta bring a delayed blitz, or a fake blitz now and then. But if every single time you show that front you drop 8 into zone, then the QB (if he's experienced) will know he's got all day.

That's the way it was on at least one of the 3 man rushes in the red zone. I want to watch this year to see if that pattern repeats itself, or not. Because if I can spot it just watching a replay, you know damn well opposing OCs are picking up on it as well.

The other pattern was press coverage. I think that that's what FilmStudy was talking about when he looked at the Ravens D late in games. The pattern seemed to be that the DBs were pressing for the first 3 quarters, but then played off, giving a cushion, allowing QBs to pick up easy first downs and move the chains. 4 or 5 of those easy pass plays chewed up 50 yards, whereas the D had been stingy in the first 3 quarters. So it wasn't just D-line/pass rush formations that factored in, it was the difference between press and soft coverage by the secondary.

Edited by OriginalColtsFan

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1 hour ago, mdrunning said:

I think it's OK to be encouraged by the way the Ravens' defense played last Sunday, but given how abysmal Cincy's offense looked for a second straight game Thursday, it's probably wise to not get overjoyed.

True but the Texans had a number one defense last year and our defense played better against the Bengals than the Texans did. We finished with the number one defense in preseason and it carried over to game one in the regular season. There will be people who will say that it was the Bengals so it doesn't mean anything and we just got lucky. When we dominate the Browns it will only be because it was against a rookie QB and "IF" they had a better offense and a better defense we would have lost. I may be overly excited about the defense. I'll admit that but I feel very confident this defense will be special.

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I am skeptical of Pees. He is a fan of zone defenses and the 3 man rush. I expect him to revert back to his old ways at any time.

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19 minutes ago, RavingManiac said:

True but the Texans had a number one defense last year and our defense played better against the Bengals than the Texans did. We finished with the number one defense in preseason and it carried over to game one in the regular season. There will be people who will say that it was the Bengals so it doesn't mean anything and we just got lucky. When we dominate the Browns it will only be because it was against a rookie QB and "IF" they had a better offense and a better defense we would have lost. I may be overly excited about the defense. I'll admit that but I feel very confident this defense will be special.

Having the No. 1 defense during the preseason is about as useful as being named Best Dressed at a nude beach. Nothing carries over from the preseason because no one does anything during the preseason. If carryover momentum meant anything, then last year's Ravens team should have gone 16-0 due to their perfect 4-0 preseason. It just doesn't work that way.

I'm not saying the 2017 defensive unit can't be a good one, but I'd tone down the hyperbole a bit after just one game.

The Bengals, by the way, are the first team since the (you guessed it!) 1939 Eagles to not score a touchdown in their first two regular season games. 

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Not to mention that the Texans #1 defense from last year gave up 29 points to Jacksonville.  That's Jacksonville with Blake Bortles.   No reason to dis the Ravens defense, they performed great.  But one game against a team that hasn't scored a TD in 8 straight quarters is no reason to anoint them the second coming of the Ravens first super bowl defense.  

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1 hour ago, cprenegade said:

Not to mention that the Texans #1 defense from last year gave up 29 points to Jacksonville.  That's Jacksonville with Blake Bortles.   No reason to dis the Ravens defense, they performed great.  But one game against a team that hasn't scored a TD in 8 straight quarters is no reason to anoint them the second coming of the Ravens first super bowl defense.  

Are there reasons to dis Pees?

;)

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13 hours ago, mdrunning said:

Having the No. 1 defense during the preseason is about as useful as being named Best Dressed at a nude beach. Nothing carries over from the preseason because no one does anything during the preseason. If carryover momentum meant anything, then last year's Ravens team should have gone 16-0 due to their perfect 4-0 preseason. It just doesn't work that way.

I'm not saying the 2017 defensive unit can't be a good one, but I'd tone down the hyperbole a bit after just one game.

The Bengals, by the way, are the first team since the (you guessed it!) 1939 Eagles to not score a touchdown in their first two regular season games. 

The defense played great during the preseason and they played great during game one in the regular season. When I say it carried over to the regular season all I'm saying is just that. They played great during preseason and now played great in game one of regular season. I understand preseason means nothing on this board unless it's negative. If it's negative during the preseason then it means everything.

The Ravens are going to win the division. Nobody wants to hear that here and I realize that. It's "cool" to say they are going 8-8 at best. This defense is going to shut down everyone's favorite team on here and that's the Steelers. Sounds crazy? We will see. This will also prove that if a team can win the division or at least make the playoffs, coaching means absolutely nothing in the NFL.Ravens have a terrible head coach, an inept defensive coordinator, a GM who doesn't understand 21st century football who drafted Tim Williams over Kareem Huny and a clueless offensive coordinator.

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14 hours ago, cprenegade said:

Not to mention that the Texans #1 defense from last year gave up 29 points to Jacksonville.  That's Jacksonville with Blake Bortles.   No reason to dis the Ravens defense, they performed great.  But one game against a team that hasn't scored a TD in 8 straight quarters is no reason to anoint them the second coming of the Ravens first super bowl defense.  

Comparing this D to the 2000 D is ridiculous. For one thing , the 2000 D was a 4-3 base that seldom blitzed. They didn't have to. Opposing offenses knew what was coming, but couldn't stop it. Plus, that defense would be the most penalized team in the NFL playing under today's rules. That said, today's defense is pretty good!

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9 hours ago, mrdeltoid said:

Comparing this D to the 2000 D is ridiculous. For one thing , the 2000 D was a 4-3 base that seldom blitzed. They didn't have to. Opposing offenses knew what was coming, but couldn't stop it. Plus, that defense would be the most penalized team in the NFL playing under today's rules. That said, today's defense is pretty good!

The 2000 defense wasn't that good. They played against a lot of bad teams with very bad quarterbacks.

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7 minutes ago, RavingManiac said:

The 2000 defense wasn't that good. They played against a lot of bad teams with very bad quarterbacks.

Err, I wouldn't say they weren't that good - they also beat some teams with very good QB's too. 

For my money though, the 2006 defense was better.  Overall, the 2011 team was the best total team.

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13 minutes ago, alienrace said:

Err, I wouldn't say they weren't that good - they also beat some teams with very good QB's too. 

For my money though, the 2006 defense was better.  Overall, the 2011 team was the best total team.

“We can look at the 2000 Ravens in two ways. We can acknowledge that many of the regular-season records they set came courtesy of one of the easiest defensive schedules in history,” Shatz said. “Or, we can focus on the fact that the Ravens are almost as superlative in Football Outsiders’ advanced stats, even after we’ve adjusted for that super-easy schedule. The Ravens have the best run defense DVOA of all time, and they famously allowed only 2.7 yards per carry for the entire regular season.

They had four shutouts and held opponents to 10 points or fewer in 11 of 16 regular-season games. But the Ravens really became legends in the playoffs, allowing just 23 total points in four games to Denver (No. 3 in offensive DVOA), Tennessee (No. 16), Oakland (No. 6) and the New York Giants (No. 8). That postseason performance moves the Ravens up from No. 12 to No. 3 on this list.”

http://ravenswire.usatoday.com/2017/06/23/are-2000-ravens-really-the-3rd-best-defense-in-last-30-years/

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49 minutes ago, RavingManiac said:

The 2000 defense wasn't that good. They played against a lot of bad teams with very bad quarterbacks.

And what do you think the 2017 defense has faced thus far? Andy Dalton, Whoever the Browns Stick Under Center, and next up, Blake Bortles. 

Not exactly Murderer's Row.

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16 minutes ago, mdrunning said:

And what do you think the 2017 defense has faced thus far? Andy Dalton, Whoever the Browns Stick Under Center, and next up, Blake Bortles. 

Not exactly Murderer's Row.

Look...some people post passionately about how they really feel. Some people post snarky little comments for...reasons known mainly to themselves. And one or two posters post outrageous comments merely to draw attention to themselves and to evoke a response. Any response. They're called attention whores. Don't feed the aw's.

Here's an insightful comment on today's defense from someone who knows. Eric Weddle:

“We made too many mistakes, too many blown coverages, too many big plays as a defense, so we’re not happy about the performance we had,” Weddle said. “We let those mistakes creep in and if we don’t fix them, it’s going to hurt us down the road. It may look like a great, great defensive effort, but when you look at it, we made too many mistakes out there. Luckily, we clutched up.”

Edited by OriginalColtsFan

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1 hour ago, RavingManiac said:

The 2000 defense wasn't that good. They played against a lot of bad teams with very bad quarterbacks.

I'm going to assume that is sarcasm aimed at people you feel are negative.  I do respect that you can analyze football and nobody with an ability to do that would make a comment like that being serious.  The 2000 Ravens defense is generally acknowledged as one of the top three single season defenses in the modern era of football.....the 2000 Ravens, the 1985 Bears, and one of the 70's Steelers.  The schedule wasn't a killer, and the Titans certainly helped them in the playoffs, but that defense was legit.  It was fast, physical, and big up front.  Giants head coach and later Raven's OC, Jim Fassel,  acknowledged they couldn't prepare for the Raven's speed.  The current Raven's defense is good, very good, but comparing it to the 2000 defense is like comparing a nice expensive sports car to an Indy race car.  The sports car is good, but it would get smoked by the Indy car.  

Edited by cprenegade

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Why isn't anybody complaining about the 4 man rush? It was the 4 man rush that gave the Browns first touchdown. It was also the 4 man rush that gave up the huge  play in the 3rd qtr that set the Browns up for a field goal. How many points did the browns score on 3 man rushes?

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On 9/16/2017 at 9:31 PM, mdrunning said:

Having the No. 1 defense during the preseason is about as useful as being named Best Dressed at a nude beach. Nothing carries over from the preseason because no one does anything during the preseason. If carryover momentum meant anything, then last year's Ravens team should have gone 16-0 due to their perfect 4-0 preseason. It just doesn't work that way.

I'm not saying the 2017 defensive unit can't be a good one, but I'd tone down the hyperbole a bit after just one game.

The Bengals, by the way, are the first team since the (you guessed it!) 1939 Eagles to not score a touchdown in their first two regular season games. 

That made me lol 

‘I shall steal that line

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