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PinkFlamingo

Race related covenants on Rodgers Forge deeds

71 posts in this topic

They are legally unenforceable.  Old news.

From time to time some prominent Republican is discovered to live in a house with racially restrictive covenants.  Oh, the wailing and gnashing of teeth!  I wonder how many prominent Democrats, including black ones, live in such houses.

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As an African-American, he said, “it’s like finding that we’re still considered [three fifths] of a human in the Constitution.”

Only if you are a slave.  Are you a slave?

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31 minutes ago, SonOf Scribbler said:

Will the left soon be demanding that these houses be torn down?

Or removed to a museum ..???

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Torn down, or moved to a museum is extreme. What these neighborhoods are now are monuments of a sort to an institutional racism that represents the income disparity that has grown between the races. Think of all the people who were not allowed to buy in these neighborhoods, and how much the houses there have appreciated. That is hundreds of thousands of dollars of generational wealth that was afforded some and denied others. 

It is great that they are unenforceable and that they are coming off the books, but they did exist and were enforced for years after most people thought the Civil War was over and the civil rights movement had ended. If there is an argument for reparations, and I am not totally convinced that there is, this is one of the arguments for them. 

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They are unenforceable now. they weren't for the last half century. The opportunity for acquiring an asset that could be handed down in a family was denied for generations. It is a good thing that they are not being enforced now, but the lost time and opportunity can not be easily assessed. 

 

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2 hours ago, sparky1 said:

They are unenforceable now. they weren't for the last half century. The opportunity for acquiring an asset that could be handed down in a family was denied for generations. It is a good thing that they are not being enforced now, but the lost time and opportunity can not be easily assessed. 

 

Well, over the last half century there were plenty of other opportunities to acquire assets. And just look at those assets now. 

Maybe Rodgers Forge knew what they were doing afterall. 

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I am pretty sure it was a systematic effort to deny economic advantages to some in favor of others. The whole point is that while yes there were other opportunities why would one group of people have to look for them, while another just got them?

I think most financial advisors and economists would agree that your house is your primary asset. Its ability to appreciate over time and be borrowed against is often the only way a family could rise out of poverty to the middle class, or from the middle class to affluence. This is especially true in an era when wages have been flat or stagnant, and higher education expenses have skyrocketed in the last quarter century. 

 

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2 hours ago, sparky1 said:

They are unenforceable now. they weren't for the last half century. The opportunity for acquiring an asset that could be handed down in a family was denied for generations. It is a good thing that they are not being enforced now, but the lost time and opportunity can not be easily assessed. 

 

They have been unenforceable since Shelly v. Kraemer in 1948.  How many blacks or other excluded people are today living in such houses with covenants that theoretically exclude them?

Yes, there have been other practices to keep blacks an others out of certain neighborhoods, but not deed covenants.

Edited by Baltimatt

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How many black families do you see living in Roland Park, Homeland, Guilford, Lauraville, Roland Park, any part of Towson other than West Towson even now?  It is not just economics that made the city and county segregated. 

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1 hour ago, PinkFlamingo said:

Well, over the last half century there were plenty of other opportunities to acquire assets. And just look at those assets now. 

Maybe Rodgers Forge knew what they were doing afterall. 

Are you related to hst2?

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25 minutes ago, sparky1 said:

How many black families do you see living in Roland Park, Homeland, Guilford, Lauraville, Roland Park, any part of Towson other than West Towson even now?  It is not just economics that made the city and county segregated. 

Plenty

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28 minutes ago, sparky1 said:

How many black families do you see living in Roland Park, Homeland, Guilford, Lauraville, Roland Park, any part of Towson other than West Towson even now?  It is not just economics that made the city and county segregated. 

How many black families do you see living in Northwood?

 

http://anteropietila.com/books.html

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The top grade, colored green, was given only to a dozen or so neighborhoods. Even in the depth of the Depression, mortgage money was available there for qualified buyers at liberal terms. Interestingly, Roland Park was not given that grade, because federal officials thought that its houses, the oldest about 40 years of at the time, had outlived their usefulness. By contrast, the same development company’s more recent Guilford, Homeland and Northwood all were given the top grade. They were white, mostly Protestant and upper middle class and so new that houses were still being built there. Blacks were prohibited by deeds, Jews through a stringently enforced company policy.

 

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4 hours ago, sparky1 said:

Torn down, or moved to a museum is extreme. What these neighborhoods are now are monuments of a sort to an institutional racism that represents the income disparity that has grown between the races. Think of all the people who were not allowed to buy in these neighborhoods, and how much the houses there have appreciated. That is hundreds of thousands of dollars of generational wealth that was afforded some and denied others. 

It is great that they are unenforceable and that they are coming off the books, but they did exist and were enforced for years after most people thought the Civil War was over and the civil rights movement had ended. If there is an argument for reparations, and I am not totally convinced that there is, this is one of the arguments for them. 

Plenty of people who were targeted by those covenants now own homes in those communities. Not only did the SCOTUS rule them to be unenforceable (69 years ago!!), but federal fair housing law makes them meaningless. The problem is that trying to get the words removed from deeds that date back so far will cost way too much in time, trouble, and money than the end result is worth. Much ado about nothing. 

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1 hour ago, sparky1 said:

How many black families do you see living in Roland Park, Homeland, Guilford, Lauraville, Roland Park, any part of Towson other than West Towson even now?  It is not just economics that made the city and county segregated. 

Any black family that can afford it can live anywhere they wish. This is nothing new. In the early 1980's in my neighborhood in Forest Hill my next door neighbors were a black family, and they bought the house from the Mexican family that owned it when I had moved in. I still live in the same neighborhood, and although those folks moved away in 1990 when he got transferred to Ohio, and I moved to a different house in 1992 about three blocks away, I am aware of at least two black families that live within a couple of blocks from me (and my neighbors across the street are from Puerto Rico). This is a neighborhood that has houses that sell for anywhere from about $390,000 to over $570,000. The only barrier to ownership is economics. And besides, how many people who bought a house in a "restricted" neighborhood pre-1948 are even still alive today and living there? Maybe a few folks in their 90's. 

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As an African-American, he said, “it’s like finding that we’re still considered [three fifths] of a human in the Constitution.”

I'm constantly amazed at how many people don't understand the "three-fifths" provision of the original Constitution. The anti-slavery delegates to the Constitutional Convention wanted slaves to count as zero percent for purposes of Congressional districting.

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4 hours ago, bmore_ken said:

Are you related to hst2?

You know I'm not. :rolleyes:

This thread is going just the way I thought it would. 

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8 minutes ago, PinkFlamingo said:

You know I'm not. :rolleyes:

This thread is going just the way I thought it would. 

Bad quoting. My comment was meant for sparky. My bad.

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3 hours ago, Papi said:

Plenty of people who were targeted by those covenants now own homes in those communities. Not only did the SCOTUS rule them to be unenforceable (69 years ago!!), but federal fair housing law makes them meaningless. The problem is that trying to get the words removed from deeds that date back so far will cost way too much in time, trouble, and money than the end result is worth. Much ado about nothing.

I know it is. But when I saw the article in the Sun, I just couldn't resist. 

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12 hours ago, stevez51 said:

Looks like a protest march in the future ......

Do it!!

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10 hours ago, SonOf Scribbler said:

Will the left soon be demanding that these houses be torn down?

Based on what?

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32 minutes ago, Bawlmerian said:

Based on what?

duuhhhhh.....that it had to do with racial discrimination? A long time ago? Ax.....grinding wheel.

Memo: Time and place don't matter....direct impact doesn't matter....time...place don't matter to the perpetually irratated and self perceived sack cloth and ashes group...they are ticked and they want their pound of flesh.

This whole deed thing is SSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH like the statues.................till 'they' brought it up.....ancient history....no one gave a rats butt.

 

 

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