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Cameron

Bernie backers' attacks on Democrats infuriate the party

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Demands for ideological purity are stoking divisions heading into the 2018 midterms and 2020 presidential election.

At no point was this worry more apparent than after the leaders of the National Nurses Union refused last month to rule out supporting primary challenges for Senate Democrats who don’t support his Medicare-for-all health care bill. The group, one of Sanders' closest allies, vowed to “[hold] the Democrats accountable.”

Sanders’ own campaign pollster called the measure a litmus test in the same POLITICO report. And Turner — whose group houses the huge email list Sanders’ team built during his campaign and subsequently refused to hand over to the DNC — said “there’s something wrong” with Democrats who don’t support Sanders’ measure.

Yet it took three weeks for Sanders himself to weigh in. He told The Washington Post that his health care legislation wouldn’t serve as a litmus test for whether or not to back fellow senators. It was hardly a disavowal of his allies’ rhetoric, though, and the delay left other lawmakers sweating about primary challenges for nearly a month.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/08/bernie-backers-attacks-infuriate-democrats-242386

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Perhaps his supporters should suggest that Mr. Sanders join the party whose membership they want to conform to him.

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16 minutes ago, soulflower said:

The head of the Nurses Union supported Trump because she believes he will get Single Payer healthcare :(

http://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2017/01/political-powerful-nurses-union-head-im-counting-on-trump-for-real-health-care-reform-108511

Good luck with that.

Mainstream Democrats better learn how to sell their message and reach the purists as best as they can. 

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9 minutes ago, ivanbalt said:

Good luck with that.

Mainstream Democrats better learn how to sell their message and reach the purists as best as they can. 

I think most Dem Base voters support Single Payer. If anything should a be a litmus test, it should be that

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1 hour ago, soulflower said:

I think most Dem Base voters support Single Payer. If anything should a be a litmus test, it should be that

Do the Democrats have litmus tests?

If they did, I'd expect being a Democrat to be the first order of business.

Both parties are divided right now.

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I find that far too often, scratch a Bernie bro and you find a Trumpanzee.

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10 minutes ago, Cameron said:

Do the Democrats have litmus tests?

If they did, I'd expect being a Democrat to be the first order of business.

Both parties are divided right now.

I don't believe in litmus tests but I guarantee you that whomever the Dems nominate in 2020 will be For Single Payer. The Base is ready for it

Edited by soulflower

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6 minutes ago, soulflower said:

I don't believe in litmus tests but I guarantee you that whomever the Dems nominate in 2020 will be For Single Payer. The Base is ready for it

 I wouldn't guarantee it.

The Base is a bit giddy about the failure to repeal ObamaCare right now.

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Whether or not 'single payer' makes it onto the Dem Platform will be a good indication of how well they are able to resist/control the access BigInsure has freely had into their heads.

I agree that 'single payer' is on most folks' list right now.

Only 'gotta-make-Obamacare-fail' Republicans and BigInsure sycophants will oppose it.

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4 hours ago, Cameron said:

Do the Democrats have litmus tests?

They haven't in the past. It used to be a 'big tent' party. It increasingly feels like the willingness of the left wing to accept the necessity of 'Blue Dog' type Democrats in order to win in less urban areas is waning though. Be a shame to make the same mistake the Tea Party made in 2010 when they nominated far right fringe candidates in places they could not possibly win.

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4 hours ago, soulflower said:

I don't believe in litmus tests but I guarantee you that whomever the Dems nominate in 2020 will be For Single Payer. The Base is ready for it

And I guarantee you they won't give an honest explaination of how they are going to pay for it.

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39 minutes ago, Jimmy Jazz said:

They haven't in the past. It used to be a 'big tent' party. It increasingly feels like the willingness of the left wing to accept the necessity of 'Blue Dog' type Democrats in order to win in less urban areas is waning though. Be a shame to make the same mistake the Tea Party made in 2010 when they nominated far right fringe candidates in places they could not possibly win.

You couldn't be farther from the truth

Jon Ossoff didn't lose because he ran as a Far Left candidate. He was pretty moderate. 

Joe Manchin gets a lot of criticism from the Far Left but it's unlikely that he will lose to his Primary challenger. 

Dems have some problems with unity and turnout. Their problem isn't that they've gone too far Left though. 

Edited by soulflower

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35 minutes ago, soulflower said:

Dems have some problems with unity and turnout. Their problem isn't that they've gone too far Left though. 

The Dems haven't gone too far left, but the youth has.  That's their biggest problem really, in a nutshell. 

On the other side, the Republicans face something similar, in quite a strange parallel.  They have a faction that has gone insanely far right.  Both parties now have a division, with moderates on both sides trying to hold things together. 

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53 minutes ago, soulflower said:

You couldn't be farther from the truth

Jon Ossoff didn't lose because he ran as a Far Left candidate. He was pretty moderate. 

Joe Manchin gets a lot of criticism from the Far Left but it's unlikely that he will lose to his Primary challenger. 

Dems have some problems with unity and turnout. Their problem isn't that they've gone too far Left though. 

I'm talking about the current atmosphere and the mindset described in the OP. Look at where Democrats held House seats in '06 and '08 and tell me how they win those seats again when people demand litmus tests over issues.

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8 hours ago, alienrace said:

The Dems haven't gone too far left, but the youth has.  That's their biggest problem really, in a nutshell. 

On the other side, the Republicans face something similar, in quite a strange parallel.  They have a faction that has gone insanely far right.  Both parties now have a division, with moderates on both sides trying to hold things together. 

I agree with that but given that the Young are ascending, what's far left now is likely to be mainstream in the future (i.e. Single Payer, Universal Basic Income, etc).

Dems in Congress today are mostly 50 years old and older. So there's a gap between the elected Dems and the mostly 40 and younger Base. 

 

Edited by soulflower

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8 hours ago, Jimmy Jazz said:

I'm talking about the current atmosphere and the mindset described in the OP. Look at where Democrats held House seats in '06 and '08 and tell me how they win those seats again when people demand litmus tests over issues.

I think the Politico article is very misleading. 

Dems are recruiting candidates in Red Districts who can win in those districts. Joe Manchin isn't being kicked out of the Party. There's no doubt that Coastal Liberals dominate the leadership in the Democratic party and they have less representation in Red States nowadays. But there's no movement within the party to purge Moderates or Red State Dems

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13 minutes ago, soulflower said:

I think the Politico article is very misleading. 

Dems are recruiting candidates in Red Districts who can win in those districts. Joe Manchin isn't being kicked out of the Party. There's no doubt that Coastal Liberals dominate the leadership in the Democratic party and they have less representation in Red States nowadays. But there's no movement within the party to purge Moderates or Red State Dems

But if those Coastal Liberals keep trying to tell those other states what to do they will leave on their own.

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On 9/12/2017 at 1:29 PM, soulflower said:

I think most Dem Base voters support Single Payer. If anything should a be a litmus test, it should be that

LOL.  Litmus, or IQ?  If you support it, you don't understand anything.  Medical care will be worse than a visit to the DMV.  There is one place the government provides healthcare and the VA is an ongoing scandal with fantastic cost overruns.  Check out the efficiency and cost effectiveness of the new Denver VA hospital.  If government can't handle healthcare for veterans, how do you think they will do handling the entire aging US population, plus illegal immigrants.  And once you jump in that quicksand, there is no return.  

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17 hours ago, RileyMartin said:

And I guarantee you they won't give an honest explaination of how they are going to pay for it.

Sure they will.

We're gonna make Mexico pay for it.

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8 minutes ago, Cameron said:

Sure they will.

We're gonna make Mexico pay for it.

Cutting taxes would have also been an acceptable answer.

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19 minutes ago, ivanbalt said:

Cutting taxes would have also been an acceptable answer.

Sure you would also accept I have no idea how much it will cost you'll have to pass it to find out.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, RileyMartin said:

Sure you would also accept I have no idea how much it will cost you'll have to pass it to find out.

 

 

Of course we'll have to pass it to find out.

We have to pass every bill before we find out.

Civics. Civics. Civics.

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20 minutes ago, RileyMartin said:

Sure you would also accept I have no idea how much it will cost you'll have to pass it to find out.

 

 

We can worry about the details later 

Just as Republicans took back Congress by running on replacing Obamacare without having a plan to replace Obamacare :lol:

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