Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
DisaptdDon

Loyola Dons

343 posts in this topic

Army, Navy, Air Force and GT recruit talented athletes that fit their system and also meet academic requirements.  They are not normal high school kids and think this comparison is incorrect. Loyola has not shown any interest in recruiting.

Running the triple option requires buy in from the players and confidence in the coaches teaching it.  The feedback from LB  is that the boys have not bought into the program.  

I have been told that their is a serious communication problem and a lack respect between the players and certain coaches.

Agree they need to move to the B conference.  It also needs to be recognized that immediate attention needs to be payed by the administration  to  understanding and correcting current player/coach divisions.  With kids leaving the program and others questioning whether they will play next year these issues must be addressed now before there are not enough players to field a team.  At the end of the day,  hs football is supposed to be fun and a positive experience for the participants to remember when it all over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, DisaptdDon said:

Army, Navy, Air Force and GT recruit talented athletes that fit their system and also meet academic requirements.  They are not normal high school kids and think this comparison is incorrect. Loyola has not shown any interest in recruiting.

Running the triple option requires buy in from the players and confidence in the coaches teaching it.  The feedback from LB  is that the boys have not bought into the program.  

I have been told that their is a serious communication problem and a lack respect between the players and certain coaches.

Agree they need to move to the B conference.  It also needs to be recognized that immediate attention needs to be payed by the administration  to  understanding and correcting current player/coach divisions.  With kids leaving the program and others questioning whether they will play next year these issues must be addressed now before there are not enough players to field a team.  At the end of the day,  hs football is supposed to be fun and a positive experience for the participants to remember when it all over.

Nah Don, an option offense doesn't require buy in so to speak or specially talented players (athletes) except a quick thinking mobile QB rather than dropback QB but merely pure execution by all the pieces.  Do what you are taught to do.  That is, just do your finite job.  But yes, coaching who can properly teach the scheme is of paramount importance, yes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe not having enough kids to field a team would be the wake up call these fools in the building need to get things back on track. Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom and we are headed in that direction. There is and has been for a while a general lack of interest from the student body in even attending games. There is no internal promotion of games, schedules to the current student body much less the parents and alums. There is zero promotion of the fact that Loyola has put many kids onto D1 and D3 FB rosters over the years. Many who are on active on rosters today. This kind of stuff is easy, yet Keeney and company are completely incompetent. Buy hey, winning isn't everything right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you read Keeney's epitaph aka his retirement interview, he references his best memories as an AD: When Loyola lost the swimming championship to MCD and how well the boys handled the devastating defeat (as reference they had won 20 plus straight titles). Not the miraculous 2013 lacrosse championship, not the undefeated football season, but losing with dignity. You can't make up this stuff. I'm ok with the sentiment but to put that out in a widely read publication is a PR nightmare. We, Loyola Blakefield, are a school that loses with dignity. That's branding.... OMG. The Jesuits I knew are rolling over in their grave. 

While athletics is often measured in outcomes reflected in the win/loss column and championships earned, Keeney looks back on less tangible performances. “I have always lived by and imparted to coaches and athletes that long after the game is won or lost, what is most remembered is how you conduct yourself in moments of victory and defeat,” said Keeney. “Loyola is blessed with so many great young men who display exceptional character, and I am blessed to have witnessed it on display over the years.”

Amidst the many moments of excitement, including nail-biting victories, or brilliant underdog performances, one of the most vivid and impactful memories Keeney cherishes came in a moment of defeat. “Our swim teams have been very dominant in consistently winning MIAA titles over the past 20 years. In the year their streak was broken, the opposing team celebrated in our home pool. Our guys could have held their heads low and stepped off into the locker room with all sorts of emotions running through their minds,” said Keeney. “Instead, they stood by respectfully and waited for the chance to shake the hands of their opponents and wish them a well-earned victory. I can’t get that moment out of my mind, and I’ll likely never forget how proud it made me feel.”
Edited by mop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, DayWalker said:

Nah Don, an option offense doesn't require buy in so to speak or specially talented players (athletes) except a quick thinking mobile QB rather than dropback QB but merely pure execution by all the pieces.  Do what you are taught to do.  That is, just do your finite job.  But yes, coaching who can properly teach the scheme is of paramount importance, yes. 

DW,

Someone asked the following question to the HC at the football alumni kick off meeting: Who on your staff has experience implementing and coaching the triple option? His response, only our OC. One coach can't install this offense in a vacuum especially when you decide not to retain your best option offense QB because of his summer (not in season) commitments to his scholarship sport. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, mop said:

DW,

Someone asked the following question to the HC at the football alumni kick off meeting: Who on your staff has experience implementing and coaching the triple option? His response, only our OC. One coach can't install this offense in a vacuum especially when you decide not to retain your best option offense QB because of his summer (not in season) commitments to his scholarship sport. 

That's a very big problem of not having the ENTIRE coaching staff to include the defensive coaching ( scout practice ) versed in the Flex, Wishbone, or whatever you wish to call it.  Besides the OC coordinator, the line coach needs to teach them how to option block -- the double team and who/how one is to peel off to level two.  The RB/Slot coach need to be well versed in teaching those players who / who not to block and how, meaning I've seen many kids (the slot) come down and block the read or pitch keys or even take on an already engaged d-lineman low ( chop block ).  Receivers need to be able to recognize the pitch key to know who to block.

Just the OC very aware of an option offense is a disaster.  A poorly executed option offense looks like a train wreck.  A well run option looks like a thing of beauty as I said seeing very good defensive players lost in space frustrated when they don't make the right attack selection and the ball carrier dash by them up field.

Edited by DayWalker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DW,

Here's the timeline. Coach Hall announces his retirement mid-season last year. AD and administration decide to hire the existing O line coach who has little to no experience running the Flex, Wishbone, Veer, etc. as the HC. New HC is scrambling to fill out his staff (no HC experience in MD hence no extensive coaching or recruiting network). Some alums help the School out and refer him to the former Curly OC. Not having many viable options, the HC hires him. No extensive training for the remainder of the staff in the Spring/Summer regarding the option O. No additional assistants who are masters of the new offense are hired. Only quarterback with some option experience is cashiered. Football is unlike most sports. You need to have a well thought out plan and great teachers as coaches to implement a new system. That's not what happened at Loyola this year. I'm reluctant to criticize anyone other than the Administration because they've been the only constant thought the last decade of poor performance. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The O Line coach is the most important coach in the triple option. Next comes the timing and footwork of the QB and backs. Then comes reps, reps, reps....I have attended Navy football O Line training sessions and I can tell you that if you don't coach, drill and rep rules and technique daily, things won't run smoothly. They may be doing all of this, but it is not showing up on game day. I just think many kids are used to or want to play spread, and have not bought in 100%. I also think many uninformed parents are having an influence on their kids attitude. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fact: Most parents and rec coaches don't know diddly about football. That being said, if you can't coach them up and folks aren't seeing improvement, the doubting Thomases will rule the roost. OL, QB handler and backfield coach are all important. Its a heavily choreographed offense. Proper preparation (the right coaches, veer training and installation, reps, and the right QB are all ingredients required to succeed) prevents poor performance. 

Edited by mop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where is the last MSJ full game video I can look at the offense?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, mop said:

DW,

Here's the timeline. Coach Hall announces his retirement mid-season last year. AD and administration decide to hire the existing O line coach who has little to no experience running the Flex, Wishbone, Veer, etc. as the HC. New HC is scrambling to fill out his staff (no HC experience in MD hence no extensive coaching or recruiting network). Some alums help the School out and refer him to the former Curly OC. Not having many viable options, the HC hires him. No extensive training for the remainder of the staff in the Spring/Summer regarding the option O. No additional assistants who are masters of the new offense are hired. Only quarterback with some option experience is cashiered. Football is unlike most sports. You need to have a well thought out plan and great teachers as coaches to implement a new system. That's not what happened at Loyola this year. I'm reluctant to criticize anyone other than the Administration because they've been the only constant thought the last decade of poor performance. 

Actually Hall announced before the season even started last year he was leaving

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jbmad said:

Actually Hall announced before the season even started last year he was leaving

You're right, I was being too generous to the Keystone Cops. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DayWalker said:

Where is the last MSJ full game video I can look at the offense?

On Hudl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Total LD offense Friday 93 yards, 70 rushing.   MCD 295 total offense, 275 rushing.  The numbers say it all.

Gilman this week? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GA should soon provide his injury report as to why Gilman couldn't keep pace but the all-world special real deal players they brought up and coached up did an excellent job of holding SFA to under 100 points.

Edited by DayWalker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/11/2017 at 11:16 PM, Campy19 said:

The offensive scheme isn't the problem, they don't have the horses to play the teams they are currently playing. I have watched Loyola twice this year and the Offensive scheme is a perfect fit for Loyola. The Triple Option makes perfect sense for a team that lacks the talent level of their opponents. Why do you think Army, Navy & Air Force run the triple? They don't have the same type of athletes as the teams they play.  Loyola ran the spread for the past 10 years with more talent and won nothing. This is by far their least talented team. In the Spread, you need a very good Qb, athletic linemen and receivers who can get open and catch the ball. In the Triple, you need an athlete at Qb and a tough kid at the fullback/super back position. The linemen can be smaller and less talented, look at the academies. It's easier to recruit two kids to fit the scheme then the many parts it takes to run the spread.  Loyola will be fine running the Triple Option, give them a year or two and they will be solid on the offensive side, they just have to get out of the A Conference. 

Finally, The OC at Loyola had success with the offense at New Town & John Carroll. He also coached the OLINE at Curley where they ran the ball.  Curley hasn't won this year and is it any coincidence that haven't won since going away from the run game to the spread? Just my thoughts. 

Quick question for all of the talk on the Triple option with Loyola. Are they running the "true" triple option where the QB has to make 2 reads very quickly or are they really running the double with one QB read (think Nebraska for years). That makes all the difference, at the HS level. You can teach the double with one read over a summer (similar idea to the read option out of a spread or the double out of the veer) and can do that with a pretty athletic QB, but if he is really running the triple then please don't say it's the perfect offensive set. To run the triple you have to have a  very athletic QB with the ability to make the reads, you need a stud for a FB (and hope he doesn't get hurt) and a top notch RB with hands. Most years you won't have all of those at this level, and a HS never puts in the hours that a major college program does. And don't compare any HS to the service academies. Your talking about extremely hard working, disciplined players  who put in a lot of study hours (and by the way, very talented the last 15 years). If the Loyola's HC wanted to create something "different" than what everyone else is running, I agree with that logic (hard to defend what you don't see a lot of)...but the double option out of the veer  (you can also run cross bucks from that) or even the double wing might be better than if they are running a true triple.  PS - I haven't even talked about line and end play in the triple! PSS - I agree on Curely (should be running the football) but play calling goes a long way. I've watched Curley gain 5 yards on 1st down this year and then throw 2 incomplete passes  and punt. Lots of coaches at the HS level are forgetting the basics. You call plays to set up other plays and "move the chains" (sustained drives win's games). Too many coaches have fallen into the spread mentality of lets just keep throwing and hit a big play here and there (hard to win the clock management side with that). Arm chair QBing at it's best - ha ha    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Express said:

Quick question for all of the talk on the Triple option with Loyola. Are they running the "true" triple option where the QB has to make 2 reads very quickly or are they really running the double with one QB read (think Nebraska for years). That makes all the difference, at the HS level. You can teach the double with one read over a summer (similar idea to the read option out of a spread or the double out of the veer) and can do that with a pretty athletic QB, but if he is really running the triple then please don't say it's the perfect offensive set. To run the triple you have to have a  very athletic QB with the ability to make the reads, you need a stud for a FB (and hope he doesn't get hurt) and a top notch RB with hands. Most years you won't have all of those at this level, and a HS never puts in the hours that a major college program does. And don't compare any HS to the service academies. Your talking about extremely hard working, disciplined players  who put in a lot of study hours (and by the way, very talented the last 15 years). If the Loyola's HC wanted to create something "different" than what everyone else is running, I agree with that logic (hard to defend what you don't see a lot of)...but the double option out of the veer  (you can also run cross bucks from that) or even the double wing might be better than if they are running a true triple.  PS - I haven't even talked about line and end play in the triple! PSS - I agree on Curely (should be running the football) but play calling goes a long way. I've watched Curley gain 5 yards on 1st down this year and then throw 2 incomplete passes  and punt. Lots of coaches at the HS level are forgetting the basics. You call plays to set up other plays and "move the chains" (sustained drives win's games). Too many coaches have fallen into the spread mentality of lets just keep throwing and hit a big play here and there (hard to win the clock management side with that). Arm chair QBing at it's best - ha ha    

No they're not running the triple option at least not correctly. On film, its doesn't look like they're running any option football: predetermined calls or QB decisions? I'm not sure. Lineman miss critical blocks on almost every play and the QB isn't managing the mesh point correctly. Very little smash mouth football. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0