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DisaptdDon

Loyola Dons

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LB hasn't been successful since Abbot, and they had football kids.  Thats great kids play multi-sports, but if i'm trying to build something, I want kids around for summer workouts, 7v7, ect.  I want kids to earn their spots and get in football shape.  Doesn't mean they can't go play golf or lax on the weekends, gotta buy in to the program.  Sounds like people are making excuses for why these kids can't buy in to what they trying to build.  It's obvious they are not dropping down to the B, and sounds like they got some size according to earlier posts.  Just gotta trust the process and be patient.

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1 hour ago, spreadball85 said:

LB hasn't been successful since Abbot, and they had football kids.  Thats great kids play multi-sports, but if i'm trying to build something, I want kids around for summer workouts, 7v7, ect.  I want kids to earn their spots and get in football shape.  Doesn't mean they can't go play golf or lax on the weekends, gotta buy in to the program.  Sounds like people are making excuses for why these kids can't buy in to what they trying to build.  It's obvious they are not dropping down to the B, and sounds like they got some size according to earlier posts.  Just gotta trust the process and be patient.

They definitely have some size up front but that doesn't always translate to toughness.  They have been pushed around by much smaller opponents so far this season. We will soon see what kind of heart these players have when the A conf teams start coming in. One thing I can say for past teams were that they always showed heart and toughness.  

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This team just needs to get the timing of their new offense down. I saw at least a few times in the Curley game when the QB made bad decisions to either keep or pitch. Better decisions to pitch or keep would have picked up good yardage. Reading the DE was a little slow IMO. Also, the OC ran to the short side of the field a few times allowing no space for the play to develop. With a few tweaks, they could be better for sure. The Dons need a few new wrinkles for league play if they hope to sneak out a win or two.

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After reading all of this - it seems like a few are afraid to state the obvious. Loyola is just plain bad. They got extremely lucky to get out of Curley with the win. I see nothing but a$$ whooping for Loyola. How many points do you think Spalding will put up coming off the GC loss? How many wins will Loyola end up with this season? I read on here give the new staff some time, while your giving them time the schools around them are loading up and getting better. Tough times are ahead for the Don's.

 

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3 minutes ago, BumpyJohnson said:

After reading all of this - it seems like a few are afraid to state the obvious. Loyola is just plain bad. They got extremely lucky to get out of Curley with the win. I see nothing but a$$ whooping for Loyola. How many points do you think Spalding will put up coming off the GC loss? How many wins will Loyola end up with this season? I read on here give the new staff some time, while your giving them time the schools around them are loading up and getting better. Tough times are ahead for the Don's.

 

They were definitely lucky to get the win, no offense at all. Teams in the A conf will probably average 50 pts a game if not more. But you can't call for the coaches head just yet, he wasn't hired until Jan 24 when most kids had long made their decisions.  He also can't do it alone, he needs the support of the Alumni and administration if anything is going to change. But teams around them are just doing what they have always done besides SFA with the poaching of all top talent. It really won't matter who does what in the league as long as SFA is still there. Most programs don't have the resources to compare, outside money (Poggi, Plank) and the small tuition that the school has makes the money go a lot farther than all the other schools. Just gonna be a side show eventually 

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Agree - now I don't know the in's and out's but are you saying the HC was hired back in Jan? They have a lot of experience on that staff..the former Curley coaches...isn't one the former HC from John Carroll? I don't think most school will have the money to compete w/SFA. However, they should be able to compete with the likes of Spalding...but I think they are going to get a running clock on them. Until things change the B Conference is where they are headed. The first 3 games is a sign the Don's are in some serious trouble - they won't beat CH, McD, AS or SFA. They got a shot to squeak out a win against Gilman.

 

Edited by BumpyJohnson

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10 minutes ago, BumpyJohnson said:

Agree - now I don't know the in's and out's but are you saying the HC was hired back in Jan? They have a lot of experience on that staff..the former Curley coaches...isn't one the former HC from John Carroll? I don't think most school will have the money to compete w/SFA. However, they should be able to compete with the likes of Spalding...but I think they are going to get a running clock on them. Until things change the B Conference is where they are headed. The first 3 games is a sign the Don's are in some serious trouble - they won't beat CH, McD, AS or SFA. They got a shot to squeak out a visit against Gilman.

 

They have zero chance to beat Gilman! Gilman is better this year than they were last year, when Gilman scored 50 on them. Gilman has a great chance to make the playoffs! CHC would be their best chance for a win IMO, and that at happening. 

There is this real false narrative about Gilman this year. We all know their offense is horrible, but their defense is really good. Their problem could be if they get anybody hurt. Already have some injuries, playing a bunch of kids both ways. Any of them get hurt, will be a major problem. But Gilman's win over Episcopal, was very big. People fail to realize that they were ranked #11 in the Washington Post, has a four year starting QB and probable POY in the IAC.  This is the same team that was beating Boys Latin team with a running clock in the third quarter, who beat Loyola. So, Loyola really don't have a chance against Gilman. 

Edited by GREYHOUND ALUM

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5 minutes ago, BumpyJohnson said:

Agree - now I don't know the in's and out's but are you saying the HC was hired back in Jan? They have a lot of experience on that staff..the former Curley coaches...isn't one the former HC from John Carroll? I don't think most school will have the money to compete w/SFA. However, they should be able to compete with the likes of Spalding...but I think they are going to get a running clock on them. Until things change the B Conference is where they are headed. The first 3 games is a sign the Don's are in some serious trouble - they won't beat CH, McD, AS or SFA. They got a shot to squeak out a visit against Gilman.

 

Yes coach Zehyoue was hired on Jan 24 as head coach, was the Oline coach last 2 yrs. They knew Hall was leaving before season started and waited until then to make a hire. Then had to go out and find coaches to fill out staff. The coaches from Curley probably weren't hired until 2 months later. Not the best situation to put a new coaching staff into No matter how much experience.  The starting Qb from the last 2 yrs decided not to play due to the change in the offense and his golf scholarship to MD.

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36 minutes ago, GREYHOUND ALUM said:

They have zero chance to beat Gilman! Gilman is better this year than they were last year, when Gilman scored 50 on them. Gilman has a great chance to make the playoffs! CHC would be their best chance for a win IMO, and that at happening. 

2 and 9 last year GA....  Having 1 win in 4 outings so far, it's a coin flip as to if Gilman will be better this year.  But just 3 wins, only 2 more, will be all you need to claim better lil pup.  What a freakin fall off the cliff from Poggi's reign!!!  What's the Vega over and under on the hounds being better?  Gilman gonna get BLASTED by CHC!!!!

Sorry DC Sniper I said that curse word to you, Vegas....  My Bad

 

Edited by DayWalker

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Recipe for Veer success: Dons need to start by offering at least 5 50% ($50k per year) scholarships (augmented by financial aid) to the following players: 1) (two best 8th grade linemen in the GB area, need to be able to go both ways (DT and OT),  2) two guard/ILB types (projected to be in the 220-235 lbs range) and 3) a great running qb with a good arm. You backfill the RB and WR positions with smart multi-sport athletes. You drill the heck out of them until they can run the offense perfectly: then you control the clock and keep your D off of the field. In any case you'll control the line of scrimmage with this front seven. To implement this plan, you have to be able to evaluate talent and have great relationships with the youth coaches. This initiative may not win the Conference every year but you'll be very competitive. 

 

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1 hour ago, mop said:

Recipe for Veer success: Dons need to start by offering at least 5 50% ($50k per year) scholarships (augmented by financial aid) to the following players: 1) (two best 8th grade linemen in the GB area, need to be able to go both ways (DT and OT),  2) two guard/ILB types (projected to be in the 220-235 lbs range) and 3) a great running qb with a good arm. You backfill the RB and WR positions with smart multi-sport athletes. You drill the heck out of them until they can run the offense perfectly: then you control the clock and keep your D off of the field. In any case you'll control the line of scrimmage with this front seven. To implement this plan, you have to be able to evaluate talent and have great relationships with the youth coaches. This initiative may not win the Conference every year but you'll be very competitive. 

 

I agree with you totally, but how do you get the best lineman at 50% and financial aid when SFA is giving 100%. It's all about the money when it comes to high school football now a days. 

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3 minutes ago, jbmad said:

I agree with you totally, but how do you get the best lineman at 50% and financial aid when SFA is giving 100%. It's all about the money when it comes to high school football now a days. 

You have to sell the whole school. The other 50% of the tuition has to be worth it for everything that happens off the football field. Selling the parents and not the boys is the most important trait. If you start running a school to the whims and visions of a 14 year old you are going to be in trouble fast. 

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That's what I am talking about, the kids don't make the money decisions its the adults. 

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1 hour ago, mop said:

Recipe for Veer success: Dons need to start by offering at least 5 50% ($50k per year) scholarships (augmented by financial aid) to the following players: 1) (two best 8th grade linemen in the GB area, need to be able to go both ways (DT and OT),  2) two guard/ILB types (projected to be in the 220-235 lbs range) and 3) a great running qb with a good arm. You backfill the RB and WR positions with smart multi-sport athletes. You drill the heck out of them until they can run the offense perfectly: then you control the clock and keep your D off of the field. In any case you'll control the line of scrimmage with this front seven. To implement this plan, you have to be able to evaluate talent and have great relationships with the youth coaches. This initiative may not win the Conference every year but you'll be very competitive. 

 

Your mistake is saying "RECIPE FOR VEER SUCCESS!!! What Dual Threat QB or WR wants to play in that type of offense.  WR's want to catch the ball.  Plus the veer is so easy to stop. Why don't they just charge 100% tuition and get Barry Switzer to come coach. 

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the problem is the unrealistic expectations of parents who don't realize that only 2% of HS kids will play D1 football. Many will be willing to send their kids to SFA to increase those odds. Never mind the huge numbers that actually make it onto a D1 roster only to get injured, burned out, fail out or just plain quit. The Loyola experience will prepare a kid IMO far better for life after HS and college.  

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1 hour ago, EaglePride said:

the problem is the unrealistic expectations of parents who don't realize that only 2% of HS kids will play D1 football. Many will be willing to send their kids to SFA to increase those odds. Never mind the huge numbers that actually make it onto a D1 roster only to get injured, burned out, fail out or just plain quit. The Loyola experience will prepare a kid IMO far better for life after HS and college.  

That's for sure. Just ask the WV Qb who just went back home

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1 hour ago, Dmvballer said:

Your mistake is saying "RECIPE FOR VEER SUCCESS!!! What Dual Threat QB or WR wants to play in that type of offense.  WR's want to catch the ball.  Plus the veer is so easy to stop. Why don't they just charge 100% tuition and get Barry Switzer to come coach. 

LOL, the veer is easy to stop..... Clearly you've never watched Paul Johnson coach at Navy or GT. You run the veer if you don't have the horses but have highly intelligent players that can learn a complex system. Its about using motion and option football to create a man advantage at the point of attack. Try preparing for a well coached great veer team in one week. No DC worth his salt will tell you its easy. Do I think the veer is the best offense for everyone? No. Its about turning a program around and controlling the game. Running a spread with an undersized line and lesser skill players is a recipe for three and out. By the way the best offensive player in the MIAA a couple of years ago ran some option at Spalding and is now the starter at Navy. He was one of the best QBs in this league during the last decade. 

Edited by mop

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23 hours ago, GREYHOUND ALUM said:

They have zero chance to beat Gilman! Gilman is better this year than they were last year, when Gilman scored 50 on them. Gilman has a great chance to make the playoffs! CHC would be their best chance for a win IMO, and that at happening. 

There is this real false narrative about Gilman this year. We all know their offense is horrible, but their defense is really good. Their problem could be if they get anybody hurt. Already have some injuries, playing a bunch of kids both ways. Any of them get hurt, will be a major problem. But Gilman's win over Episcopal, was very big. People fail to realize that they were ranked #11 in the Washington Post, has a four year starting QB and probable POY in the IAC.  This is the same team that was beating Boys Latin team with a running clock in the third quarter, who beat Loyola. So, Loyola really don't have a chance against Gilman. 

agree Gilman got a bit better and Loyola didn't. I don't see Loyola come even close to winning a conference game this year, unless something crazy happens again like when they should have beat SFA last year. 

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23 hours ago, BumpyJohnson said:

After reading all of this - it seems like a few are afraid to state the obvious. Loyola is just plain bad. They got extremely lucky to get out of Curley with the win. I see nothing but a$$ whooping for Loyola. How many points do you think Spalding will put up coming off the GC loss? How many wins will Loyola end up with this season? I read on here give the new staff some time, while your giving them time the schools around them are loading up and getting better. Tough times are ahead for the Don's.

 

Got to see the game, and was impressed with what curley had talent wise and shocked they were sitting at 0-3 (should win this week).  Seems like they get pass happy in he wrong situations and do well when they run the ball.  New coaches and new system shouldn't matter need to be able to run the ball regardless to win games. 

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1 hour ago, Dmvballer said:

Your mistake is saying "RECIPE FOR VEER SUCCESS!!! What Dual Threat QB or WR wants to play in that type of offense.  WR's want to catch the ball.  Plus the veer is so easy to stop. Why don't they just charge 100% tuition and get Barry Switzer to come coach. 

Nah Dmv, a dual threat QB would actually love a veer / option offense to run or throw.  The option is a thing of beauty to behold if run well and see the pressure it places on ends and LBs, particularly athletic defenders who are slowed up in making decisions rather than coming hard and fast downhill.  The double team blocks on lineman defenders at the point of attack help smaller option lineman and LBs get caught up in the wash all time with the option and unable to get clean to the outside.  Now a poorly executed option looks like a train wreck, yes.  For me in high school, the inside/outside veer / option is NOT so easy to stop for kids trained to take on the ball carrier who changes multiple times in one play in a span of fractions of seconds.

There is nothing I laugh at more than seeing the 9-technique out in space pivoting left and right and back left to figure out who to attempt to tackle between the dive FB, QB, or pitch back...  And this is all 5 to 7-yard plays time consuming drives and not big strike plays.  Defenders of good options tend to leave the field spent.

Edited by DayWalker

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10 minutes ago, DayWalker said:

Nah Dmv, a dual threat QB would actually love a veer / option offense to run or throw.  The option is a thing of beauty to behold if run well and see the pressure it places on ends and LBs, particularly athletic defenders who are slowed up in making decisions rather than coming hard and fast downhill.  The double team blocks on lineman defenders at the point of attack help smaller option lineman and LBs get caught up in the wash all time with the option and unable to get clean to the outside.  Now a poorly executed option looks like a train wreck, yes.  For me in high school, the inside/outside veer / option in NOT so easy to stop for kids trained to take on the ball carrier who changes multiple times in one play in a span of fractions of seconds.

Spot on. I love the folks that disparage the veer in favor of an I formation or a spread offense. Use whatever scheme gives you the best chance to win based on your personnel. Hat on hat blocking only works if you have a great OL and a running back that hits the hole hard and makes the right reads. IMO most high school coach position coaches don't have what it takes to teach a complicated version of zone blocking. Lot of fat kids holding the DL with most RBs hunting and pecking or bouncing it outside. Doesn't work against good high school Ds.  

Edited by mop

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I am a big fan of the veer/flexbone as well but until your rep the hell out of the footwork. motion, pitch etc. you get poor results like the 2017 version of the Dons offense. It does take time to oil the machine, but can be deadly when hitting on all cylinders. I have defended against this offense many times and unless your defensive kids are disciplined and role focused, they will get burned. Flexbone is also a liability when playing from behind. Once you get down, its hard to put points on the board in a ball control offense. Give the Dons a little more time, we'll hopefully see improvement each week.

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4 minutes ago, EaglePride said:

Flexbone is also a liability when playing from behind. Once you get down, its hard to put points on the board in a ball control offense..

Yep, Flex has that play from behind issue and all offenses have downsides with the ups.  Run and Shoot poorly especially when its cold and that will put one behind big and quick.  And yes yes yes flex need a lot of reps.  But that's started at feeder programs and JV so the basics are down for varsity reps.  I can see the Dons falling flat on their face if they unfolded the option to all in 2017.  Yet I do understand MOST coaches go with what they were raised with and know best.

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2 minutes ago, DayWalker said:

Yep, Flex has that play from behind issue and all offenses have downsides with the ups.  Run and Shoot poorly especially when its cold and that will put one behind big and quick.  And yes yes yes flex need a lot of reps.  But that's started at feeder programs and JV so the basics are down for varsity reps.  I can see the Dons falling flat on their face if they unfolded the option to all in 2017.  Yet I do understand MOST coaches go with what they were raised with and know best.

You can implement it in one year but only if every position coach can teach it at a high level and you have a really quick learner and good decision maker as your QB. Loyola's problem is their OC is the only coach on their staff who knows the offense inside and out. Hard to coach every position with limited practice time. I agree with DW, that this type of offense is a program wide commitment. You have to hire coaches who are intimate with the workings of the O and their position responsibilities. Once again, if Loyola fails in this veer endeavor (I hope they don't) it will be another indicator that the management problems at Blakefield haven't been fixed. Its really simple: building (in this case re-building) a football program is akin to making a three legged stool, personnel (partial scholarships at key positions and sell the School), great coaching hires (extensive expertise in the schemes you will run) on both sides of the ball and excellent game preparation including a robust pre and in season lifting program and in game adjustments. 

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