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OriginalColtsFan

Perriman

199 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, bmore_ken said:

That's because of his limited opportunities. Who's better? The all star outfielder hitting .270 with 500 ABs or the rookie batting .666 with 9 ABs? The reality is he only dropped 5 passes.

There is a reason both Wallace and Perriman have limited opportunities- Flacco doesn't/can't trust them when he needs a play maker.  Woodhead is a play maker and so is Maclin.  Wallace and Perriman haven't proved that.  IMO, Wallace is pretty much done and Perriman is a bust, Matt Elam style....

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19 minutes ago, mikemor1 said:

There is a reason both Wallace and Perriman have limited opportunities- Flacco doesn't/can't trust them when he needs a play maker.  Woodhead is a play maker and so is Maclin.  Wallace and Perriman haven't proved that.  IMO, Wallace is pretty much done and Perriman is a bust, Matt Elam style....

This x 1000. And it's clearly been pointed out to Ken how to put his own stats into proper perspective. It's not rocket science. But what it shows is that once he latches onto some notion, no matter how misguided, he'll find ways to justify and rationalize the very stats used against him to "prove" his point. It's the ultimate absurdity. And trust me...I've seen Ken do this so many times it's no coincidence. It's the way he processes information.

We all saw in less than 1 quarter Woodhead's superior play making abilities, because he's GOOD, and it showed, and it was obvious. The same with Maclin. The same with Watson. OTOH, with players like Perriman, who are NOT good, that shows also. And it's also obvious. Wallace is better than Perriman, but as Lofton pointed out, he gets jammed at the LOS and that disrupts timing on passes and causes him to get no separation. Maclin doesn't get jammed, he gets separation, he holds onto the ball, and Joe will and should focus on him and away from Perriman and Wallace. Maybe use Wallace once in a while, but focus primarily on Maclin, Watson, Madd Maxx, and the backs. It's common sense to anyone who HAS common sense. But for those who don't, all the common sense in the world won't penetrate their malfunctioning brains.

Edited by OriginalColtsFan

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22 minutes ago, mikemor1 said:

There is a reason both Wallace and Perriman have limited opportunities- Flacco doesn't/can't trust them when he needs a play maker.  Woodhead is a play maker and so is Maclin.  Wallace and Perriman haven't proved that.  IMO, Wallace is pretty much done and Perriman is a bust, Matt Elam style....

I'll respectfully agree to disagree and bow out of the thread and leave you guys to it. :) 

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Praise. The. Lord.

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2 hours ago, mikemor1 said:

There is a reason both Wallace and Perriman have limited opportunities- Flacco doesn't/can't trust them when he needs a play maker.  Woodhead is a play maker and so is Maclin.  Wallace and Perriman haven't proved that.  IMO, Wallace is pretty much done and Perriman is a bust, Matt Elam style....

Wallace is done? Are you kidding me? After two games and Flacco throwing for a total of 338 yards combined in two games, you have seen enough to determine Wallace is done? 

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7 minutes ago, RavingManiac said:

Wallace is done? Are you kidding me? After two games and Flacco throwing for a total of 338 yards combined in two games, you have seen enough to determine Wallace is done? 

As I said in a previous post

Quote

Perriman has only been targeted 7 times in 2 games. Wallace 4. How much production can they give you with those numbers. They don't throw to themselves.

 

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2 minutes ago, RavingManiac said:

Wallace is done? Are you kidding me? After two games and Flacco throwing for a total of 338 yards combined in two games, you have seen enough to determine Wallace is done? 

James Lofton, HOF wide receiver (and NFL coach), made some interesting observations in the Ravens game against the Browns. He absolutely knows what he's talking about, and he provided genuine insight into what was going on on the field. On one of Perriman's drops he said he could see that Perriman was hearing footsteps. It happens. But once it starts happening it rarely reverses itself.

When it came to Wallace, he said that while Maclin had no trouble getting off the LOS during press coverage, Wallace did. When a receiver has trouble beating press coverage, it throws the timing of the pattern totally off, making that receiver unreliable. Lofton knows what he's talking about and he knows what he saw. And while it doesn't necessarily mean Wallace is done, it means that Maclin has landed himself atop the depth chart by what he's done on the field. It remains to be seen what Wallace can or can't do at this point. I think Wallace is certainly better than Perriman, but he's had little success after his initial success with the Steelers with several different teams. I don't think it's coincidence. It's just that in Baltimore the wide receiver pool has been so spotty that initially Wallace looked pretty good. Better, than, say, Kamar Aiken. But compared to Maclin he's not in Maclin's league. So we'll see. They have to be able to get something out of him, but it would make more sense to focus on Maclin, Watson, Madd Maxx, and the running backs. To keep relying on Perriman and Wallace, unless there's a major change, is counter productive.

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5 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

As I said in a previous post

 

Well, that didn't last very long, did it?

:rolleyes:

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5 hours ago, cprenegade said:

Wallace and Perriman have a combined output of 3 catches for 20 yards in 2 games.  That is absolutely horrible.  Too early and too small of a sample size to make a final judgement, but there are guys on other teams that had that kind of production in the first quarter of the first game.  It flys under the radar because the Raven's are 2-0, but eventually that kind of non-production will kill you.  Not sure what the problem is, whether it's lack of separation, drops, or QB.  But seriously, both of these guys are getting too much money to turn in 2 game statistics like that, especially against oppostion that isn't exactly top notch.  

You are comparing apples to oranges. That's like saying Flacco sucks because he has 338 yds passing through 8 qtrs and there are qbs that have more than that in 4 qtrs. Thid isn't a top flight offense. We aren't going to have multiple receivers who put up 1300 yds a season. If we do then that means the defense isn't doing their job. 

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338 passing yards and you guys expect 200 yard games by three different receivers. It just doesn't add up mathematically. 

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2 hours ago, OriginalColtsFan said:

This x 1000. And it's clearly been pointed out to Ken how to put his own stats into proper perspective. It's not rocket science. But what it shows is that once he latches onto some notion, no matter how misguided, he'll find ways to justify and rationalize the very stats used against him to "prove" his point. It's the ultimate absurdity. And trust me...I've seen Ken do this so many times it's no coincidence. It's the way he processes information.

We all saw in less than 1 quarter Woodhead's superior play making abilities, because he's GOOD, and it showed, and it was obvious. The same with Maclin. The same with Watson. OTOH, with players like Perriman, who are NOT good, that shows also. And it's also obvious. Wallace is better than Perriman, but as Lofton pointed out, he gets jammed at the LOS and that disrupts timing on passes and causes him to get no separation. Maclin doesn't get jammed, he gets separation, he holds onto the ball, and Joe will and should focus on him and away from Perriman and Wallace. Maybe use Wallace once in a while, but focus primarily on Maclin, Watson, Madd Maxx, and the backs. It's common sense to anyone who HAS common sense. But for those who don't, all the common sense in the world won't penetrate their malfunctioning brains.

i strongly disagree......each player you mentioned has proven to be a a playmaker.....Wallace helped the Ravens open the season last year with a huge catch and run......Perrriman may not be Jerry Rice but he has made some huge plays....whatever reason Flacco is not comfortable with him, it has nothing to do with his abilities....their may even be some racial overtones to your opinion...why does Woodhead get props from you with such limited production yet Perriman is a done deal..... 

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Just now, AgentOrange said:

i strongly disagree......each player you mentioned has proven to be a a playmaker.....Wallace helped the Ravens open the season last year with a huge catch and run......Perrriman may not be Jerry Rice but he has made some huge plays....whatever reason Flacco is not comfortable with him, it has nothing to do with his abilities....their may even be some racial overtones to your opinion...why does Woodhead get props from you with such limited production yet Perriman is a done deal..... 

Well, I strongly disagree right back atcha. Have you watched the games this year? Perriman has literally dropped more passes than he's caught. That's unacceptable on any and every level. So you stick to your opinion, and I'll stick to mine.

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ok....I'm ok with that...you have such strong opinions so early in the season....there is so much you need to learn.....

Edited by AgentOrange

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9 minutes ago, AgentOrange said:

ok....I'm ok with that...

Cool. I think there might be some semantics involved here. All players on an NFL team make plays. That does not, however, make them play makers. Play makers, the way I'm defining it, go above and beyond. In the short time Woodhead was in I could see he was special. He made a one handed grab, he made people miss, he got good YAC, etc. It's just something extra. Maclin has that as well. Lofton defined it as his ability to beat press coverage at the LOS. He also said Wallace was not able to do that. And Maclin's ability to take a quick slant to the house is exactly what this team has been missing, at least since Torrey Smith left. Has Wallace demonstrated that ability? I don't think so.

So again...there's a difference between a player and a play maker. Sure, some players make great plays. But do they do it consistently? Hell, there were even questions about Suggs throughout the years, because some games he'd do great, and other games he was a non-factor. But over the course of his career it's clear he's a play maker on defense. Doom was the same. However, not all players, even very good players, are game changing players. Players on offense that keep DCs up at night. Maclin is that kind of guy. Wallace? Not so much. And Perriman? Not at all as far as I'm concerned. But hey...if he proves me wrong, great. But so far, throughout his career, Perriman has been, at best, a reach as a #1 pick, and at worst, an outright bust. Just my 2 cents, no more, no less. Enjoy the season. It's been a while since you've posted here. Don't be a stranger.

Edited by OriginalColtsFan

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This is not an issue of semantics, neither do I seek a antagonistic or adversarial relationship with you....but I will tell you this and if you fail to understand, then it it would only mean that you are either arrogant or looking for a fight..... Jimmy Johnson once said the NFL stands for not for long.....Translation: The season starts one way and ends in another....passing teams thrive when it is warm and the ball is soft but running or run-pass balanced teams thrive when it is cold or late in the season......Once you consider this as truth and it is......and you factor in  depth, injuries, weather and so many different dynamics such as talent, scheme, player motivation...ect....2 games into the season is way to early to decide who is a fluke, bust or loser....at the least, wait unit the weather changes or at least game 8 into the season  to judge things bro.  

Edited by AgentOrange

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I don't think Mike Wallace is done. I think Cleveland schemed well against us.

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56 minutes ago, AgentOrange said:

This is not an issue of semantics, neither do I seek a antagonistic or adversarial relationship with you....but I will tell you this and if you fail to understand, then it it would only mean that you are either arrogant or looking for a fight..... Jimmy Johnson once said the NFL stands for not for long.....Translation: The season starts one way and ends in another....passing teams thrive when it is warm and the ball is soft but running or run-pass balanced teams thrive when it is cold or late in the season......Once you consider this as truth and it is......and you factor in  depth, injuries, weather and so many different dynamics such as talent, scheme, player motivation...ect....2 games into the season is way to early to decide who is a fluke, bust or loser....at the least, wait unit the weather changes or at least game 8 into the season  to judge things bro.  

Fair enough. And how can one argue with Jimmy Johnson? OTOH...this isn't JUST about 2 games into the season. Perriman's pattern goes back to his college days. He dropped easy passes there as well. The scouts saw it, and recognized it, and Ozzie Newsome took a gamble that Perriman's head coach was correct when he said he believed Perriman's drops to be due to a lack of concentration that could be corrected. Feel free to disagree, but I think it's a matter of record that more college receivers fail to correct for the dropsies once they reach the NFL, than the other way around. I do agree with you on one thing...time WILL ultimately tell. For my money, and for now, I'd roll the dice with Maclin, Watson, Maxx Williams, and the running backs. You cast your lot with whomever you like. And we'll meet back halfway through the season, and see what we see. Fair enough?

Oh. One last question. Can you think of another team on which Perriman would even see the field? Would he see the field on the Pats? Steelers? Seahawks? Falcons? Packers? Fill_in_the_blank...

And one last quote...not from Jimmy Johnson, but from Johnny Unitas: "Talk is cheap. Let's play football". For ultimately, regardless of what you say, or I say, it WILL be determined on the field. And either Perriman and Wallace perform, or they don't. My money? Perriman will not. Wallace might. As always...your mileage can and will vary. And to quote you: "if you fail to understand, then it it would only mean that you are either arrogant or looking for a fight....."

(I love that. I really do. And they say I'M condescending. Pfffftttt.)

Edited by OriginalColtsFan

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40 minutes ago, Rob said:

I don't think Mike Wallace is done. I think Cleveland schemed well against us.

OK. Do you see him as a #1 wide receiver, a #2 wide receiver, or a #3 wide receiver?

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11 hours ago, OriginalColtsFan said:

Except I just saw an article that stated Joe is committed to trying to work Perriman and Wallace more into the offense.

Of course Joe's going to say that.  While I do think he wants to get Wallace more involved since he obviously has big play potential, don't be surprised if Perriman becomes the forgotten man.  With more emphasis on the running game this year, there's only so many plays available to all the receivers.  You better believe Flacco was none too happy with Perriman's drops on Sunday but he won't say anything about it.  

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6 hours ago, OriginalColtsFan said:

OK. Do you see him as a #1 wide receiver, a #2 wide receiver, or a #3 wide receiver?

Since the Ravens don't have a Jerry Rice standing in the huddle, I really don't think they have a so called "No. 1 receiver."  Every game will be different but there's no denying that Joe loves a security blanket out there and I have a feeling after the Browns game, Watson may be that guy this year.  To me, Wallace is just another receiver that Joe will use during the course of the season.  

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16 hours ago, OriginalColtsFan said:

Seemingly simple solutions for clearly simple-minded people.

Or seemingly simple facts for you. Why do you continuously insult people simply because they disagree with you? Ken is simple minded because he brought you a fact? Why is that? 

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3 hours ago, jamesdean said:

Of course Joe's going to say that.  While I do think he wants to get Wallace more involved since he obviously has big play potential, don't be surprised if Perriman becomes the forgotten man.  With more emphasis on the running game this year, there's only so many plays available to all the receivers.  You better believe Flacco was none too happy with Perriman's drops on Sunday but he won't say anything about it.  

I sure hope so.

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3 hours ago, jamesdean said:

Since the Ravens don't have a Jerry Rice standing in the huddle, I really don't think they have a so called "No. 1 receiver."  Every game will be different but there's no denying that Joe loves a security blanket out there and I have a feeling after the Browns game, Watson may be that guy this year.  To me, Wallace is just another receiver that Joe will use during the course of the season.  

Again with the "security blanket"?

Maclin is a #1 IMO. Wallace might be a #3 on another team. Perriman wouldn't even BE on most other teams IMO.

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11 hours ago, AgentOrange said:

i strongly disagree......each player you mentioned has proven to be a a playmaker.....Wallace helped the Ravens open the season last year with a huge catch and run......Perrriman may not be Jerry Rice but he has made some huge plays....whatever reason Flacco is not comfortable with him, it has nothing to do with his abilities....their may even be some racial overtones to your opinion...why does Woodhead get props from you with such limited production yet Perriman is a done deal..... 

because Woodhead produces when it counts!  A team that scores 1TD and 3FG's every game is going nowhere, as evidenced last year. The RB's are doing pretty good even without Woodhead and Dixon, and hopefully Watson stays healthy. But the WR corp is still pretty sketchy.

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3 minutes ago, mikemor1 said:

because Woodhead produces when it counts!  A team that scores 1TD and 3FG's every game is going nowhere, as evidenced last year. The RB's are doing pretty good even without Woodhead and Dixon, and hopefully Watson stays healthy. But the WR corp is still pretty sketchy.

Also, Woodhead makes plays out of nothing; on his own. That's another difference between a player and a play maker. Ezekiel Elliot makes tacklers miss. He rarely goes down upon first contact. He does it on his own. It's not the blocking schemes, or anything else; it's his pure talent. Like Megatron could go up in triple coverage and come down with the grab. All on his own. Those are play makers/impact players. Perriman can't even catch passes right in his hands.

As far as the RBs go, West has a soft tissue injury and that's why he only took 15 snaps against the Browns. I'm not sure what his status is for this week.

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