mcorioles

Some Ravens Take Knee At London Game.

394 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, mcorioles said:

Just as it reaches none of you that most of the people who don't like it ARE'NT racist.

No, probably not. However, sometimes people need to be hit in their comfort zone in order to understand something. Have you stopped to consider that the people in the military, and others, found and died precisely so that people could protest? The very people you think are being offended fought for what you think offends them. The ability to express different opinions is fundamental to our political process here. Or, it used to be. Trump is trying to change that, because he's the sort of person who appears completely unable to understand or empathize with anyone who isn't a white, wealthy male.

One can make an excellent case that Trump is a racist. Without hearing him when he thinks no one is listening, it's impossible to be certain. But I'd put the odds at better than 95%, based on his various statements and actions. And since a lot of players in the NFL are black, it's not hard to see why they would have no respect for him. Coming hard on the heels of his comments at the Strange rally, I believe the tremendous upsurge in this type of protest is basically an upraised middle finger pointed in Trump's direction. Which he deserves.

Edited by Evil Yoda

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They kneeled before the game and stayed on their knees the entire game.

Poor showing from the get go.

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7 hours ago, ms maggie said:

I am having trouble understanding this.

I get if you feel this sort of protest should be limited to games played in the US. (Let's be honest: wouldn't have been any protest if not for that buffoon in the WH). But OK.

You seem to take issue with the players kneeling for the US anthem and standing for the UK anthem.

The protest is calling attention to black men being shot by police in questionable circumstances in the US. What does that have to do with the UK anthem?

I believe all politics stop at the shore line. Even if they didn't stand for the other country, I would still be against it. But you know as well as I do that standing for England was just another poke in the eye. Like I said, I never gave a crap about it here. I became a marine to protect that very right.. It must be because of my family history in the military I'm so amped up. I can't really explain it, but when I saw that done on a national stage it just really got me amped up. I felt the same way about Jane Fonda. I actually feel a rage I shouldn't as a Christian. I don't like Trump, he's a rude egotist, but I would never air our dirty laundry for the world to see. JMO

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4 minutes ago, mrdeltoid said:

I believe all politics stop at the shore line. Even if they didn't stand for the other country, I would still be against it. But you know as well as I do that standing for England was just another poke in the eye. Like I said, I never gave a crap about it here. I became a marine to protect that very right.. It must be because of my family history in the military I'm so amped up. I can't really explain it, but when I saw that done on a national stage it just really got me amped up. I felt the same way about Jane Fonda. I actually feel a rage I shouldn't as a Christian. I don't like Trump, he's a rude egotist, but I would never air our dirty laundry for the world to see. JMO

I get the stopping at shoreline thing. Actually rather agree.

But no, don't agree re the UK anthem thing being another poke in the eye.

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7 hours ago, ms maggie said:

I get the stopping at shoreline thing. Actually rather agree.

But no, don't agree re the UK anthem thing being another poke in the eye.

Come to think of it, you're prolly right.

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5 minutes ago, mrdeltoid said:

Come to think of it, you're prolly right.

I'm truly sorry this is so painful for you.

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24 minutes ago, mrdeltoid said:

I would never air our dirty laundry for the world to see. JMO

I understand your position, but I suspect that those Brits who were interested in American culture or politics already understood this. The Internet, and in particular social media like Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, etc. made it impossible to keep the dirty laundry hidden. Many people knew about the British and Irish "Troubles" - long before the Internet. If you contend that knowing about something is different in degree from pushing someone's face in it, that's true. But, again, it's when you take people out of their comfort zone that real change happens.

Those in the mega-rich class find these protests objectionable because the system as presently constructed has never harmed them and never will, and in fact serves them well. And, perhaps, for darker reasons in some cases. They don't like these protests because they don't want change or they see no need for it. They cast the protests in the context of national respect because that makes it easier to stir outrage.

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7 hours ago, ms maggie said:

I'm truly sorry this is so painful for you.

Thankyou. I wish all involved could have an experience like the "Free Speech crowd "had when they brought the "BLM guy"  up on stage. Seeing those two groups come together was so powerful.

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7 minutes ago, Evil Yoda said:

I understand your position, but I suspect that those Brits who were interested in American culture or politics already understood this. The Internet, and in particular social media like Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, etc. made it impossible to keep the dirty laundry hidden. Many people knew about the British and Irish "Troubles" - long before the Internet. If you contend that knowing about something is different in degree from pushing someone's face in it, that's true. But, again, it's when you take people out of their comfort zone that real change happens.

Those in the mega-rich class find these protests objectionable because the system as presently constructed has never harmed them and never will, and in fact serves them well. And, perhaps, for darker reasons in some cases. They don't like these protests because they don't want change or they see no need for it. They cast the protests in the context of national respect because that makes it easier to stir outrage.

Ravens owner Steve Bisciotti has released this statement. "We respect their demonstration and support them 100 percent, Bisciotti said in a statement. "All voices need to be heard. That's democracy in its highest form."

Financially the team will be hurt for awhile, but Steve will not go broke... in my lifetime.

Welcome back!

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7 hours ago, Evil Yoda said:

I understand your position, but I suspect that those Brits who were interested in American culture or politics already understood this. The Internet, and in particular social media like Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, etc. made it impossible to keep the dirty laundry hidden. Many people knew about the British and Irish "Troubles" - long before the Internet. If you contend that knowing about something is different in degree from pushing someone's face in it, that's true. But, again, it's when you take people out of their comfort zone that real change happens.

Those in the mega-rich class find these protests objectionable because the system as presently constructed has never harmed them and never will, and in fact serves them well. And, perhaps, for darker reasons in some cases. They don't like these protests because they don't want change or they see no need for it. They cast the protests in the context of national respect because that makes it easier to stir outrage.

I know it's a nuanced topic, and everybody brings their own experiences to the party. The problems start when emotion takes over logic. That's why I'm struggling mightily with this. I'm blinded by rage. That usually doesn't happen to me. But I really believe we'll get past this. 

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4 hours ago, karlydee2 said:

Nobody will stop watching.

For every person that gives up Season Tickets 5 are waiting in line.

No advertisers will stop.

All TRUMP did was piss off even more people and pave the way for anyone who is attached to him to lose in 2018.

Bingo!!!!!

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When the MLB players went on strike the league took a hit. It took them many years to get it back.

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4 minutes ago, stevez51 said:

When the MLB players went on strike the league took a hit. It took them many years to get it back.

How does that compare to this?

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16 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

How does that compare to this?

Pissed off fans .....

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2 minutes ago, stevez51 said:

Pissed off fans .....

The attendance numbers don't show a lot of pissed off fans. Oh wait, you mean bozos posting online. :D

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18 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

The attendance numbers don't show a lot of pissed off fans. Oh wait, you mean bozos posting online. :D

Lots of fans coming dressed as empty seats.

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1 minute ago, stevez51 said:

Lots of fans coming dressed as empty seats.

Attendance figures are generally "paid attendance". If the ticket to the seat was sold, it doesn't matter if the seat is empty at game time. So the attendance figure isn't usually reflective of actual attendance.

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1 minute ago, regularguy said:

Attendance figures are generally "paid attendance". If the ticket to the seat was sold, it doesn't matter if the seat is empty at game time. So the attendance figure isn't usually reflective of actual attendance.

I understand that for the NFL. Ravens games are sold out but many are owned by brokers that can't sell them.

MLB has less season fix holders and survive on the single game sales. Even some of the good teams can't sell out.

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Tickets are paid fir before the season even starts.

 

So any BS numbers you here don't reflect how the fans feel.

 

Go look at pictures from San Fran last Thurs.

New stadium

National TV

Lots of empty seats.

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5 hours ago, Calamari said:

Really, Trump shouldn't have attempted to violate free speech by ordering the owners to shut up the players.

Do you understand that free speech does not extend to the workplace, or did you miss that lesson in school. The owners are allowing their players to do this on company time; that's their prerogative since they own the company.

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1 hour ago, stevez51 said:

Pissed off fans .....

The fans are pissed off at TRump 

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13 minutes ago, Bassman said:

Do you understand that free speech does not extend to the workplace, or did you miss that lesson in school. The owners are allowing their players to do this on company time; that's their prerogative since they own the company.

Umm since the POTUS directed the OWNERS to fire people based upon speech it is Government censorship -- hence free speech comes into play.

 

Are you really that obtuse?

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4 minutes ago, karlydee2 said:

Umm since the POTUS directed the OWNERS to fire people based upon speech it is Government censorship -- hence free speech comes into play.

 

Are you really that obtuse?

lol Again, isn't what he said bad enough without exaggerating?  He didn't "direct" owners to fire anyone. 

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Steelers

Titans

Ravens

Seahawks

 

Trump should have learned the lesson that all Bullies learned in school -- don't [mess] with Football Players

Edited by Baltimatt

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45 minutes ago, karlydee2 said:

Umm since the POTUS directed the OWNERS to fire people based upon speech it is Government censorship -- hence free speech comes into play.

 

Are you really that obtuse?

Bingo.

Trump made it a constitutional issue when he started telling the owners to punish the players.

Edited by Calamari

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