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"I don't know where they're going to come from, but we'll have some good starting pitching." - Big Dan Duquette regarding 2018

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Evil, exact same thing for me...this guy has cost a lot of players time with HBP's

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9 hours ago, Evil Yoda said:

Those actually aren't terrible numbers compared to what the Orioles have. But they're borderline, and he'll be a year older. Unless he 'roids up, he's not likely to be better than those values. 

Those numbers in place of UJ probably puts the team in the playoffs.

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I'm sorry but Dumpster Dan feeds us this "pitching is our #1 priority" garbage every off-season. And every year, we end up with somebody's else scraps. Until he actually signs a legitimate starting pitcher, it's more of the same GM-speak.

He must be hanging with Harbaugh. 

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Posted (edited)

I'll grant that this is more an optics thing, but as I think about it I don't like Duquette saying he doesn't know where the pitching will come from. It doesn't inspire confidence in anyone, and part of his job is to inspire confidence - in the fans, to get them to purchase tickets, and in the players, manager, and coaches. If more fans reup their season tickets, that might encourage Angelos to actually spend a little money, for one example.

But, yeah, when someone pinpoints a problem and then fails to address it, it gets harder to take him seriously. We don't know how many pitching ideas he took to Angelos that got shot down (could be none, of course), but if the rumors about Angelos' disdain for pitching are true, he might be the real problem. I suspect he is.

Edited by Evil Yoda

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On 10/6/2017 at 6:00 PM, Rob said:

I'm sorry but Dumpster Dan feeds us this "pitching is our #1 priority" garbage every off-season. And every year, we end up with somebody's else scraps. Until he actually signs a legitimate starting pitcher, it's more of the same GM-speak.

He must be hanging with Harbaugh. 

I agree. 

I think bundy and gausman can be a key part of a bona fide major league rotation but we need what we have needed since we lost mussina, a real veteran ace. No combination of jimenez, hellickson, chen, gonzalez is ever going to cover for that.

i don't have a problem with tillman coming back on a one year deal as i think he's a good pitcher but if we're going to go for it we need a max sherzer type veteran ace

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8 hours ago, JoyinMudville said:

i don't have a problem with tillman coming back on a one year deal as i think he's a good pitcher but if we're going to go for it we need a max sherzer type veteran ace

At the right price. If a guy tries a little harder in a walk year and gets paid well, it should follow that if he can't perform well then, he doesn't deserve to be paid well. My brother believes Tillman has some kind of injury. I think he's done. But I'd offer him a base $1M - $2M larded up with incentives for quality starts, low ERA, low WHIP, that kind of thing, so that if he has a good year he could substantially improve on that. If he doesn't want that, then I'd offer him the opportunity to see what 29 other GMs have to say. :)

I don't think you'll ever see an ace here that they don't grow. Angelos does not seem to value pitching to the extent that he's willing to pay for it. IMO, The Davis money should have been spent on a pitcher.

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9 hours ago, JoyinMudville said:

I agree. 

I think bundy and gausman can be a key part of a bona fide major league rotation but we need what we have needed since we lost mussina, a real veteran ace. No combination of jimenez, hellickson, chen, gonzalez is ever going to cover for that.

i don't have a problem with tillman coming back on a one year deal as i think he's a good pitcher but if we're going to go for it we need a max sherzer type veteran ace

No we don't.Very few teams have those guys. 

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1 hour ago, Evil Yoda said:

At the right price. If a guy tries a little harder in a walk year and gets paid well, it should follow that if he can't perform well then, he doesn't deserve to be paid well. My brother believes Tillman has some kind of injury. I think he's done. But I'd offer him a base $1M - $2M larded up with incentives for quality starts, low ERA, low WHIP, that kind of thing, so that if he has a good year he could substantially improve on that. If he doesn't want that, then I'd offer him the opportunity to see what 29 other GMs have to say. :)

I don't think you'll ever see an ace here that they don't grow. Angelos does not seem to value pitching to the extent that he's willing to pay for it. IMO, The Davis money should have been spent on a pitcher.

I agree with your comments about Tillman and pitching.

On the topic of Davis, I've thought about that contract, since the whole negotiation process started that winter. Following this team over the Angelos years, there's something I'm convinced of. Pete doesn't like to let fan favorites (who also happen to be his favorites) get away. Pete likes to keep a player with name recognition (not all players, just 1 player). For example, Brian Roberts, who was the only bright spot, for years. I'm absolutely convinced that Buck pushed the Davis agenda. And I think Pete was further inspired to go along with it, because he knew Davis was a fan favorite. Jones is the Cap't, but Jones had a contract coming up in the near future, and is on the back 9 of his career. What better way to assure the long term presence of a star player, than to sign Davis. Many people will point to Manny as a fan favorite, and ask me why not target him? My estimation is that Davis was on the block at that moment, while Manny was under control for 3 more years. The O's are far too shortsighted to think about 4 years from then. Also, Manny will command far more money than Davis. Pete probably just broke it down to X's and O's, and went with the less expensive, fan favorite, bird in the hand. 

These are just ponderings. Because that Davis contract was a bad idea, from the word go. 

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Angelos does appear to understand the marketing aspects of the game. That is, he frequently signs men not because they can help the team, but because a lot of fans recognize their names and (he hopes) will come out to see them. There was a period of time where he'd get one of those guys every year, a guy nearly done but still well known. Second Palmeiro, Sosa, probably others I'm not remembering. It's also why he advertises in Boston and New York when the Orioles play their teams here. He doesn't care where the money comes from.

While marketing is important, I remain convinced that if your strategy is largely or entirely based on marketing fans will eventually see through it. This, I believe, is why they have trouble filling Camden Yards any more. Relatively few fans trust team management these days.

I suspect they will get a couple picks when Manny walks away, but we will see. If I were him, I'd want promises about building a solid team. And Angelos doesn't strike me as the sort of boss who would take that kind of, ah, request from an employee well. He strikes me as the kind of boss where you put in your time, pick up skills enough to interest a better boss, and then move on. They ought to collect a sandwich pick and someone's first round pick; we can hope, I guess, that he signs with a bad team due a high pick. Jones is beginning to fade. His batting has been painful to watch recently. I expect him to hang up the cleats after the '18 campaign, but Angelos may try to re-sign him as a consolation prize for letting Manny move on. That would depend on the medicals, of course.

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6 hours ago, bmore_ken said:

No we don't.Very few teams have those guys. 

well...

John Lester, Verlander, Sabathia, Scherzer are playing key roles on playoff teams.

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17 minutes ago, JoyinMudville said:

well...

John Lester, Verlander, Sabathia, Scherzer are playing key roles on playoff teams.

Verlander only started 5 games for his team, he didn't get them there. Lester pitched to a +4 era this season. Not exactly "ace" numbers. As I said few teams have a veteran ace on their staff. 

Edited by bmore_ken

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