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pitbull

Your last place Orioles

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Posted (edited)

40 minutes ago, jamesdean said:

I always said that if Jones could lay off bad pitches, he'd be a .320 hitter.  And I still think that. 

And you stick to your guns, JD. You stick to your guns.

(In other news...it's just been revealed that the Queen, in fact, does NOT have balls, and, is, in fact, NOT the King.)

;)

Carry on.

Edited by OriginalColtsFan

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I saw Chris Davis admitted he felt like he “wasnt there” for half the games. Ya think?

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9 hours ago, pitbull said:

I saw Chris Davis admitted he felt like he “wasnt there” for half the games. Ya think?

Well Thanks Chris for your effort to earn that 23 mil/yr.  Other then the starting pitching , he was the biggest anchor of the 2017 season.  The "Big Sleepwalker".  Again, where is the manager with a foot in the rear or how about benching the guy?  Oh, I forget Krush and Buck are best buddies.  So many failures on all levels for 2017.

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1 hour ago, CROUSEMAN said:

Well Thanks Chris for your effort to earn that 23 mil/yr.  Other then the starting pitching , he was the biggest anchor of the 2017 season.  The "Big Sleepwalker".  Again, where is the manager with a foot in the rear or how about benching the guy?  Oh, I forget Krush and Buck are best buddies.  So many failures on all levels for 2017.

Buck just gets a little too friendly with his players.  Too much of a mutual admiration society.  Then again, as much as they're paying Davis, how long would it take Petie to blow a gasket if Showalter was rarely playing him?

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2 minutes ago, jamesdean said:

Buck just gets a little too friendly with his players.  Too much of a mutual admiration society.  Then again, as much as they're paying Davis, how long would it take Petie to blow a gasket if Showalter was rarely playing him?

Yeah that is true.  I guess I was thinking along the lines of a couple days here and there to send some kind of message.  I mean do something anything to get this guys head out of his butt.  And there is no doubt Buck is too close to these guys.  I mean the way he slobbered all over JJ this year was quite frankly a little weird.  A .215 hitter that is always injured and you would of thought he was talking about a hall of famer.  Buck has run his course here.

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Posted (edited)

I think the blame goes all around here, and the most likely reality is that Dan and Buck really do partner up / agree on a lot of decisions and organizational philosophies.  You've had a few pitchers leave here and find greater success with other organizations, then mention how their new teams didn't limit their use of certain pitches as one of the reasons for their improvement.  The GM himself has said on record before that he / they "organizationally" just "don't like" certain pitches.  Same time... if Dan was forcing guys on Buck, and Buck's responsibility is to put his team in the best situation to win games, then Buck could / should have been leaving these guys on the end of the bench and in turn forcing Dan's hand.  But Buck chooses to continually pencil in veterans who in turn continually hurt the team.  Either he thinks they give them the best chance of winning (instead of forcing the GM to give him other options), or the alternative is that he's doing it out of spite (which would be similar to sabotage).  ;)  If Buck was really more powerful and in PA's ear, I have to wonder more why PA wouldn't have let DD go to Toronto a couple years back.  

Buck's level-headed strength and relative "calm" (which I think played a role in them avoiding a lot of free-falls that in past seasons would start after some atrociously blown game / loss) also contributes to his greatest weakness, in my opinion.  Will continue to say it until DD proves me wrong, but the vast majority of what made this team competitive for the previous 5 years was assembled by the previous administration.  DD got extremely lucky in my opinion with a few key acquisitions that paid dividends well above what their "track records" would have predicted, and coupled with the core that preceded his tenure here, they became a watchable team for a while.  Now that a lot of the core and the one-off lottery tickets are leaving or regressing with age (not living up to their "track records")... we're seeing that DD hasn't built up much of a next wave of talent to fill the void.  Tillman regresses, nobody else steps up.  Wieters leaves, his replacement posts one of the worst catcher's ERAs in recent Orioles history.  Cruz peaks, and he's gone after one year, but continues to rake the ball.  Trumbo peaks, he's retained, and immediately reverts back to more of his career normal baseline.  Gonzalez has one bad month and a bad spring, he's gone.  Jimenez has 3 mostly bad / awful years, and he still makes 25 starts (after being mostly bad the 3 years PRIOR to signing here).  Miley was trending down when he got here, and continued his downward spiral.  Hellickson, who I completely forgot to include in my abysmal pitching review, posted a near-7.00 ERA in 10 starts.  What his predecessor did well was take their most valuable pieces and turn them in to a bevy of prospects and role players. DD has shown ZERO interest in doing the same, and his keep vs. retain decisions have almost all backfired in the long-run.  People hopped on the "Beckham is a great move!" train in August, when he hit almost .400 after the deal.  Then he hit .180 in September.  We'll see in the long-run.  I know this... the one thing I'm most tired of with the Orioles in terms of offense is streakiness.  Of course there are ups and downs, but this lineup is too full of players who might have a week or a month of HoF caliber production, then followed by a week or a month of "gaping hole in the order" performance.  They've won a lot of games under Duquette's tenure here, but I think very little of it has to do with Duquette's acumen in the role.  But it's not JUST DD or not JUST Buck.  This product is a result of their time together.

Edited by Ravens2006

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11 minutes ago, Ravens2006 said:

I think the blame goes all around here, and the most likely reality is that Dan and Buck really do partner up / agree on a lot of decisions and organizational philosophies.  You've had a few pitchers leave here and find greater success with other organizations, then mention how their new teams didn't limit their use of certain pitches as one of the reasons for their improvement.  The GM himself has said on record before that he / they "organizationally" just "don't like" certain pitches.  Same time... if Dan was forcing guys on Buck, and Buck's responsibility is to put his team in the best situation to win games, then Buck could / should have been leaving these guys on the end of the bench and in turn forcing Dan's hand.  But Buck chooses to continually pencil in veterans who in turn continually hurt the team.  Either he thinks they give them the best chance of winning (instead of forcing the GM to give him other options), or the alternative is that he's doing it out of spite (which would be similar to sabotage).  ;)  If Buck was really more powerful and in PA's ear, I have to wonder more why PA wouldn't have let DD go to Toronto a couple years back.  

Buck's level-headed strength and relative "calm" (which I think played a role in them avoiding a lot of free-falls that in past seasons would start after some atrociously blown game / loss) also contributes to his greatest weakness, in my opinion.  Will continue to say it until DD proves me wrong, but the vast majority of what made this team competitive for the previous 5 years was assembled by the previous administration.  DD got extremely lucky in my opinion with a few key acquisitions that paid dividends well above what their "track records" would have predicted, and coupled with the core that preceded his tenure here, they became a watchable team for a while.  Now that a lot of the core and the one-off lottery tickets are leaving or regressing with age (not living up to their "track records")... we're seeing that DD hasn't built up much of a next wave of talent to fill the void.  Tillman regresses, nobody else steps up.  Wieters leaves, his replacement posts one of the worst catcher's ERAs in recent Orioles history.  Cruz peaks, and he's gone after one year, but continues to rake the ball.  Trumbo peaks, he's retained, and immediately reverts back to more of his career normal baseline.  Gonzalez has one bad month and a bad spring, he's gone.  Jimenez has 3 mostly bad / awful years, and he still makes 25 starts (after being mostly bad the 3 years PRIOR to signing here).  Miley was trending down when he got here, and continued his downward spiral.  Hellickson, who I completely forgot to include in my abysmal pitching review, posted a near-7.00 ERA in 10 starts.  What his predecessor did well was take their most valuable pieces and turn them in to a bevy of prospects and role players. DD has shown ZERO interest in doing the same, and his keep vs. retain decisions have almost all backfired in the long-run.  They've won a lot of games under Duquette's tenure here, but I think very little of it has to do with Duquette's acumen in the role.  But it's not JUST DD or not JUST Buck.  This product is a result of their time together.

Agree on the DD/Buck partnership produces the end product.  Very good 2012-2014.  Very average 2015-2017 overall.  Which goes to my point that they are pulling the cart in opposite direction every since DD tried to bolt after 2014.  See that thread I just posted on what AJ said.  These guys just aren't working well together and the results on the field show it.

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14 hours ago, OriginalColtsFan said:

Well...all I can say is this year, he was swinging at pitches that were simply unhittable by anybody.

It may also be a situation where he's good against not so good pitchers. Because his post season stats are bench worthy.

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15 minutes ago, weird-O said:

It may also be a situation where he's good against not so good pitchers. Because his post season stats are bench worthy.

Good point. Or it's something in his head. He hits a lot of solo HRs. Maybe he's more relaxed when the pressure is off. It's hard to say.

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, Ravens2006 said:

If Buck was really more powerful and in PA's ear, I have to wonder more why PA wouldn't have let DD go to Toronto a couple years back.

Wieters leaves, his replacement posts one of the worst catcher's ERAs in recent Orioles history.  Cruz peaks, and he's gone after one year, but continues to rake the ball.  Trumbo peaks, he's retained, and immediately reverts back to more of his career normal baseline.

It is possible that Angelos lost respect for Duquette after that Toronto fiasco. Some bosses feel that wanting a better job elsewhere is somehow "disloyal". If that's the case, Buck might have gained in power after Duquette would have left.

I can't fault them letting Wieters go. He had an exaggerated opinion of his value, considering that he faded following his injury. He still needed to prove his value. The Nats took a chance there. Cruz and Trumbo are kind of the same situation - what I've heard called "reversion to the mean", and sadly, in both cases Duquette made the wrong choice. I've seen enough walk-year superstars to conclude that a lot of players give it a little something extra in their walk year to get paid. Cruz was also a risk in that another PED bust would have taken him out for half a season. I kinda understand letting him go despite what happened. Trumbo is the big question mark; clearly the idea was to keep him and let Davis go elsewhere, because even if both of them are hitting well you really only need one. Then Angelos came along and had dinner with Davis and *boom* he's signed and overpaid. I felt he was overpaid even before this craptastic season.

Angelos is bad at baseball decisions but that doesn't stop him from making them. Like early Steinbrenner.

Edited by Evil Yoda

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2 minutes ago, Evil Yoda said:

Angelos is bad at baseball decisions but that doesn't stop him from making them. Like early Steinbrenner.

And Dan Snyder. And late Al Davis.

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