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hst2

Trump to "decertify" Iran deal

110 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, songfourone said:

 

Psst:  Take a gander at Trumps EO's, bigly, yuge....

But but but Obama!!!!!!!

:lol:

If you think I support the "govern by fiat" action of ANY President, you have not been paying attention and these boondoggles and phony governing schemes are exactly why.

It's supposed to be difficult to bind the US in international agreements.  It's supposed to be difficult for the executive to persuade the legislative and vice versa.  Too many of these political cowards from both sides of the aisle and in both branches seem to think that every fart they pass is a gust of fresh spring air that inspires the masses.  Most of them, without regard to political persuasion, don't seem to grasp that it is actually possible others may see a different path forward.  The idea of real compromise, of finding actual solutions, is just too difficult to even comprehend, never mind actually employ in getting to a successful conclusion.

So yes, Obama screwed the pooch on getting these programs ratified by Congress - and Congress screwed the pooch by refusing to force such a discussion. 

And the rest of us, well, we're the pooch.

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16 minutes ago, ms maggie said:

So Trump is going to hand Congress this hot potato, one they have no interest in addressing.

I can only imagine the antipathy the GOP leadership has towards this buffoon.  

What's really sad is that they will be angry with him because he is making them do their job.  

What we really need is a President rude enough to hold Congress' feet to the fire, while using the political charm of an Obama to make them enjoy the heat.

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3 minutes ago, MiddleOfTheRoad said:

What's really sad is that they will be angry with him because he is making them do their job.  

What we really need is a President rude enough to hold Congress' feet to the fire, while using the political charm of an Obama to make them enjoy the heat.

No, what we really need is a Congress that's adult enough that they don't need their dang feet held to the fire to do their jobs.

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10 hours ago, volperdinger said:

Only the Democrats would be stupid enough to foster a one sided agreement such as this one.

... and the British government; and the French government; and the German government.

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2 minutes ago, regularguy said:

... and the British government; and the French government; and the German government.

It's like some people are too stupid for their own good.

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10 minutes ago, MiddleOfTheRoad said:

What's really sad is that they will be angry with him because he is making them do their job.  

What we really need is a President rude enough to hold Congress' feet to the fire, while using the political charm of an Obama to make them enjoy the heat.

We need a POTUS who is not a grenade thrower.  Like when the House passed their version of healthcare, then Trump (despite lobbying for it, and ceremoniously lauding it) calls it "mean".

That's not "political charm".  That's not being a moron (w props to the SOS). 

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I love the argument that "we aren't the only country that was involved in the deal".

 

So what.

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9 minutes ago, regularguy said:

... and the British government; and the French government; and the German government.

So many critics of the Deal have no idea how it works or how many countries were involved 

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3 minutes ago, mcorioles said:

I love the argument that "we aren't the only country that was involved in the deal".

 

So what.

If the US pulls out, the other parties to the agreement aren’t likely to follow.

We just isolate ourselves 

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2 minutes ago, soulflower said:

So many critics of the Deal have no idea how it works or how many countries were involved 

And most of them don't care because we now live in a country where ignorance has become a virtue among far too many people

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6 minutes ago, banner1124 said:

And most of them don't care because we now live in a country where ignorance has become a virtue among far too many people

Anti-Intellectualism has spread like a virus. Mostly among the Rightwing

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8 minutes ago, banner1124 said:

And most of them don't care because we now live in a country where ignorance has become a virtue among far too many people

Some day I'll be able to tell my grandchildren I was there when the US fell from its long held position of leader of the free world.  

Let's cling to guns and substandard healthcare and berate NFL players who take a knee--you know, patriotism.:lol:

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19 minutes ago, mcorioles said:

I love the argument that "we aren't the only country that was involved in the deal".

 

So what.

So it matters little what your little orange idiot renages from, the 'deal' will still be valid. ;)

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5 hours ago, mcorioles said:

Good, he's right one of the worst deals the US has ever made.

One wonders if the countries of the world will consider our word as worthless if the next president just throws away a deal that many other countries have signed onto.

One wonders if Trumps cares.

Do you care? 

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45 minutes ago, banner1124 said:

No, what we really need is a Congress that's adult enough that they don't need their dang feet held to the fire to do their jobs.

OK.  I'll live with that position.

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37 minutes ago, ms maggie said:

We need a POTUS who is not a grenade thrower.  Like when the House passed their version of healthcare, then Trump (despite lobbying for it, and ceremoniously lauding it) calls it "mean".

That's not "political charm".  That's not being a moron (w props to the SOS). 

No argument from me (but is the "not" in the last sentence not supposed to be there?).  IMO, Obama had the charm, but did not have the fortitude for a real fight with Congress.  Trump is willing to pick a fight, but is neither charming enough to get them to engage nor, frankly, bright enough to know what he's arguing about.  

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2 minutes ago, MiddleOfTheRoad said:

OK.  I'll live with that position.

 

48 minutes ago, banner1124 said:

No, what we really need is a Congress that's adult enough that they don't need their dang feet held to the fire to do their jobs.

I don’t think we need 500 people making decisions on US foreign policy. Congress can’t even agree on a cup of coffee

If Presidents can make war without consulting Congress, they should be able to make peace without consulting Congress

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2 minutes ago, soulflower said:

 

I don’t think we need 500 people making decisions on US foreign policy. Congress can’t even agree on a cup of coffee

If Presidents can make war without consulting Congress, they should be able to make peace without consulting Congress

What they "should" be able to is an opinion; what they can and cannot do are constitutional facts - and they cannot bind the US in treaties without the consent of Congress.

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15 hours ago, regularguy said:

Why does Trump want Iran to start their nuke program back up? So he can start a war with them, like the neo-cons have wanted for years?

Pretty much. I'm sure Iraq and Afghanistan has gotten boring for them. 

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29 minutes ago, hst2 said:

One wonders if the countries of the world will consider our word as worthless if the next president just throws away a deal that many other countries have signed onto.

One wonders if Trumps cares.

Do you care? 

Everyone if begrudgingly admits Iran will get the bomb and this deal just delays it.

 

Trump is right on this....,,we get nothing in return.

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35 minutes ago, WKDWZD said:

So it matters little what your little orange idiot renages from, the 'deal' will still be valid. ;)

Not my orange idiot( classy)

So what.

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52 minutes ago, soulflower said:

If the US pulls out, the other parties to the agreement aren’t likely to follow.

We just isolate ourselves 

Isolate? 

What?

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51 minutes ago, mcorioles said:

Everyone if begrudgingly admits Iran will get the bomb and this deal just delays it.

 

Trump is right on this....,,we get nothing in return.

So now they will get it quicker. And North Korea will continue their work. 

Tillerson is right. Trump is a moron, and it is unwise to see his absurd policy changes as anything but a disaster.

The incompetent has moved the issue over to the more incompetent. McConnell is probably the most upset of all.

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"The early signs are that the Trump administration would be left isolated on the world stage. The other nations say the deal is working — as does the UN watchdog tasked with monitoring Iran’s compliance — and that they are not interested in pulling out of it and rejoining the US in slapping on new sanctions.

When news of Trump’s plan to decertify the deal broke yesterday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told reporters, “It is very important to preserve it in its current form and of course the participation of the United States will be a very significant factor in this regard.”

President Donald Trump may believe he can use his self-professed skills as a dealmaker to negotiate better terms. For now, though, there’s no reason to think he’s right."

link

No schiznick.

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4 minutes ago, hst2 said:

So now they will get it quicker. And North Korea will continue their work. 

Tillerson is right. Trump is a moron, and it is unwise to see his absurd policy changes as anything but a disaster.

The incompetent has moved the issue over to the more incompetent. McConnell is probably the most upset of all.

Why does it matter if they get the bomb in 2020 or whenever instead of next year?

 

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