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Sprightly

Why Are So Many Fascist Monuments Still Standing in Italy?

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This is an interesting piece from The New Yorker. 

"As Rosalia Vittorini, the head of Italy’s chapter of the preservationist organization docomomo, once said when asked how Italians feel about living among relics of dictatorship: “Why do you think they think anything at all about it?”  Exactly!

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/why-are-so-many-fascist-monuments-still-standing-in-italy

During my visits to Rome, it has always interested me that people just don't make a big hoopla over the many fascist statues around the city, despite the history behind them. And, frankly, I am glad that they are permitted to stand. They are historical and they are beautiful despite the history that erected them.

 Rome, in particular, has more than its fair share of fascists, but by and large peacefully co-exist. It seems that Americans are particularly overly-sensitive and offended.

 

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Some may overly sensitive and offended, but I can certainly understand black folks not wanting to see monuments honoring people that fought a war to keep their race as property.

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1 minute ago, ivanbalt said:

Some may overly sensitive and offended, but I can certainly understand black folks not wanting to see monuments honoring people that fought a war to keep their race as property.

Yes. Understandable. And some may be overly sensitive and offended about their southern female ancestors, both black and white, that were raped and murdered by Union soldiers. Maybe they think of that each time they look at a statue of the Union leader.

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1 minute ago, Sprightly said:

Yes. Understandable. And some may be overly sensitive and offended about their southern female ancestors, both black and white, that were raped and murdered by Union soldiers. Maybe they think of that each time they look at a statue of the Union leader.

Definitely the same thing.  :rolleyes:

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39 minutes ago, Sprightly said:

Yes. Understandable. And some may be overly sensitive and offended about their southern female ancestors, both black and white, that were raped and murdered by Union soldiers. Maybe they think of that each time they look at a statue of the Union leader.

Wow.

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39 minutes ago, ivanbalt said:

Definitely the same thing.  :rolleyes:

A lot of those union monuments honor slave owners.

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4 minutes ago, FatBoy said:

A lot of those union monuments honor slave owners.

So does Mount Rushmore.  The union didn't fight a war against the United State to keep slavery legal.

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Posted (edited)

48 minutes ago, ivanbalt said:

Definitely the same thing.  :rolleyes:

Does it have to be the same to be important to someone? I don't expect you to understand how people feel. So maybe we can just agree that we all have our sensitivities without the eye-rolling?

Edited by Sprightly

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I have been reading a book, I Had Rather Die: Rape in the Civil War, that exposes what Union soldiers did to women during the war. And it also exposes the fact the Union only acknowledged a very small portion of its soldiers' crimes against women.

But, hey, they were allegedly fighting a war to end slavery (not really) so the lives of those women were unimportant. Right? :)

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1 hour ago, Sprightly said:

This is an interesting piece from The New Yorker. 

"As Rosalia Vittorini, the head of Italy’s chapter of the preservationist organization docomomo, once said when asked how Italians feel about living among relics of dictatorship: “Why do you think they think anything at all about it?”  Exactly!

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/why-are-so-many-fascist-monuments-still-standing-in-italy

During my visits to Rome, it has always interested me that people just don't make a big hoopla over the many fascist statues around the city, despite the history behind them. And, frankly, I am glad that they are permitted to stand. They are historical and they are beautiful despite the history that erected them.

 Rome, in particular, has more than its fair share of fascists, but by and large peacefully co-exist. It seems that Americans are particularly overly-sensitive and offended.

 

Maybe because the trains ran on time under Mussolini.

The reason is because Italy was fascist, and Italians were fascist.

There are probably many Sicilians who would object to fascist monuments -- but the Mafioso fight against Mussolini in Sicily does not compare to the history of oppression, slavery, and brutality levied against African abductees and their descendants in the Confederate States.

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8 minutes ago, Sprightly said:

I have been reading a book, I Had Rather Die: Rape in the Civil War, that exposes what Union soldiers did to women during the war. And it also exposes the fact the Union only acknowledged a very small portion of its soldiers' crimes against women.

But, hey, they were allegedly fighting a war to end slavery (not really) so the lives of those women were unimportant. Right? :)

Was the Union fighting against the United States to keep slavery legal?

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10 minutes ago, ivanbalt said:

Was the Union fighting against the United States to keep slavery legal?

It wasn't fought to end it out of any concerns for the horrific crime (in my opinion) of slavery.  One day the myth that it about caring about slaves will die.

 "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so." 

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Spain had 40 years of Fascism under the dictatorship of Franco. That was followed by 40 years of democracy and to this day there are statues of Franco in Spain.

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1 hour ago, ivanbalt said:

Some may overly sensitive and offended, but I can certainly understand black folks not wanting to see monuments honoring people that fought a war to keep their race as property.

Over in one.

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8 minutes ago, Scaggsville said:

Spain had 40 years of Fascism under the dictatorship of Franco. That was followed by 40 years of democracy and to this day there are statues of Franco in Spain.

Another good example.

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11 minutes ago, Sprightly said:

It wasn't fought to end it out of any concerns for the horrific crime (in my opinion) of slavery.  One day the myth that it about caring about slaves will die.

 "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so." 

That's all great.  But the union did not fight against the United States to keep slavery legal.  There's no way around that.

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Posted (edited)

18 minutes ago, Scaggsville said:

Spain had 40 years of Fascism under the dictatorship of Franco. That was followed by 40 years of democracy and to this day there are statues of Franco in Spain.

Another good point, Franco was actually a part of their history, and didn't try to secede from Spain.

Edited by Calamari

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15 minutes ago, Sprightly said:

It wasn't fought to end it out of any concerns for the horrific crime (in my opinion) of slavery.  One day the myth that it about caring about slaves will die.

 "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so." 

Oh wow, you didn't read the whole thing, did you? :o

Did you get that cherry-picked quote from the little book of war outrages you are hyperventilating over now?

Check out what he says later in that speech.

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Posted (edited)

Were the fascists traitors to Italy?

It is always interesting when supporters of slavery and traitors to this country try to make correlations between American history and that of another country.

Edited by EgyptKang

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1 hour ago, FatBoy said:

A lot of those union monuments honor slave owners.

None of those union monuments honor traitors.

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Posted (edited)

22 minutes ago, Sprightly said:

It wasn't fought to end it out of any concerns for the horrific crime (in my opinion) of slavery.  One day the myth that it about caring about slaves will die.

 "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so." 

Then why did every single Article/Statement of secession by the Confederate States 

 

explicitly identify they were seceding to not lose the "right" to own slaves?

Edited by karlydee2

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Russians are “overly sensitive” for getting rid of Stalin statues

Germans are “overly sensitive” for getting rid of Nazi statues

Iraqis are “overly sensitive” for getting rid of Saddam Huessein statues

 

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Back to the op question...

I think because Italy acknowledges and accepts it's long history, both the good and the bad, and appreciates art and architecture. Simple as that.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, soulflower said:

Russians are “overly sensitive” for getting rid of Stalin statues

Germans are “overly sensitive” for getting rid of Nazi statues

Iraqis are “overly sensitive” for getting rid of Saddam Huessein statues

 

I was struck by "overly sensitive," too

We have tip-toed around and placated the feelings of these vile and murderous losers to the extent that they have re-written the history of the Civil War

Enough

 

Edited by Cameron

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