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mcorioles

Puerto Rico Was a Disaster BEFORE the Hurricane

195 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, Guido2 said:

Well 'here'....we have a much larger middle class tax bracket to fleece. And 'here' they are much better at 'cooking the books' and kicking the can down the road. So we don't notice as much. Weellllllll sort of. :lol:

And there they don't pay any Federal income tax so isn't much to draw from.

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5 minutes ago, stevez51 said:

And there they don't pay any Federal income tax so isn't much to draw from.

Hmmmmm..... here is a solution......have Trump push to have it made a state.....as long as they promise to vote Republican. :lol:

It should work....remember....he knows 'words'. :lol:

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Just now, Guido2 said:

Hmmmmm..... here is a solution......have Trump push to have it made a state.....as long as they promise to vote Republican. :lol:

It should work....remember....he knows 'words'. :lol:

They don't want to.

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1 minute ago, Guido2 said:

Hmmmmm..... here is a solution......have Trump push to have it made a state.....as long as they promise to vote Republican. :lol:

It should work....remember....he knows 'words'. :lol:

I think PR had a referendum  for statehood many years ago.

Just now, stevez51 said:

They don't want to.

I think that's the way the vote turned out. :)

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Just now, blowboatbethesda said:

I think PR had a referendum  for statehood many years ago.

I think that's the way the vote turned out. :)

I believe Flyboy has posted about it.

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17 minutes ago, Guido2 said:

Well 'here'....we have a much larger middle class tax bracket to fleece. And 'here' they are much better at 'cooking the books' and kicking the can down the road. So we don't notice as much. Weellllllll sort of. :lol:

That is very true. When I was there the people would talk about the lack of a middle class there. It was slowly developing but it wasn't much yet.

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22 minutes ago, Papi said:

Having read through this whole silly thread, and as someone who is anything but a defender of the Moron in Chief, let me say that it is very true that the situation in Puerto Rico, from a financial and infrastructure perspective, has been in a deteriorating situation for quite a few years. That is not a new revelation, but it happens to be a fact. For the last two to three years there has been going ongoing debate over the issue of a bailout, since the island was essentially in default. Given that situation, Puerto Rico was particularly unprepared to deal with a natural disaster of this magnitude. That should be obvious to most folks. 

The question of whether the relief efforts by the federal government has been sufficient (or even if it would possible to be suffcient, given the amount of devastation and the fact that all relief has to come by ship or by air) is a fair debate to have, regardless of who would be president. Trump's comments about the situation have been stupid, to be sure, but no more (or less) stupid than his comments about just about every other topic that he speaks to.

There is some degree of truth to the suggestion that previous administrations (going back as far as Bush and Clinton) perhaps should have done something to slow the downward spiral of the PR economy, and perhaps such actions would have helped make the island's infrastructure less vulnerable than it proved to be. But all of that is speculative. Between three bad hurricanes, multiple tornadoes, and hundreds of wildfires, it should be obvious that our federal resources in terms of disaster relief are being stretched mighty thin. While Trump bashing can certainly be a lot of fun, it seems to me that pinning any and all mis-steps in terms of disaster relief for any of those situations on him exclusively is a bit of a stretch.   

That is a very rational, well thought out post Papi. However, it isn't like this thread was started as a bash Trump thread. It was started, well, to be honest I'm not sure why, but it seems its purpose was to praise the dear leader and to absolve him from any mis-steps based on the idea that Puerto Rico wasn't a fiscally pristine place to begin with. I don't believe their financial situation absolves the president from doing the right thing, nor excuse his (admittedly not limited to this event) stupid statements and postures. I would imagine we share a fair amount of common ground there. 

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38 minutes ago, mcorioles said:

So everyone else is lying.

Got it

Not everyone just the Trumpers that will fight any and everything that challengers Trump.  POW's?  Failures.  Gold Star families (if brown)?  Whiners.  Pro Football players?  Snowflakes.  Hurricane victims (if brown) ?  Lazy people that were a disaster before the fake news wind knocked down a couple coconuts.

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17 minutes ago, stevez51 said:

They don't want to.

There are tax advantage for the businesses and land owners

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Just now, Bawlmerian said:

Not everyone just the Trumpers that will fight any and everything that challengers Trump.  POW's?  Failures.  Gold Star families (if brown)?  Whiners.  Pro Football players?  Snowflakes.  Hurricane victims (if brown) ?  Lazy people that were a disaster before the fake news wind knocked down a couple coconuts.

Yet some still try and defend the intellectually dishonest media version

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Just now, mcorioles said:

Yet some still try and defend the intellectually dishonest media version

I was there.  I don't need anyone to tell me.  I know the roads and power grid worked (aging and maybe not state of the art).

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34 minutes ago, Papi said:

Having read through this whole silly thread, and as someone who is anything but a defender of the Moron in Chief, let me say that it is very true that the situation in Puerto Rico, from a financial and infrastructure perspective, has been in a deteriorating situation for quite a few years. That is not a new revelation, but it happens to be a fact. For the last two to three years there has been going ongoing debate over the issue of a bailout, since the island was essentially in default. Given that situation, Puerto Rico was particularly unprepared to deal with a natural disaster of this magnitude. That should be obvious to most folks. 

The question of whether the relief efforts by the federal government has been sufficient (or even if it would possible to be suffcient, given the amount of devastation and the fact that all relief has to come by ship or by air) is a fair debate to have, regardless of who would be president. Trump's comments about the situation have been stupid, to be sure, but no more (or less) stupid than his comments about just about every other topic that he speaks to.

There is some degree of truth to the suggestion that previous administrations (going back as far as Bush and Clinton) perhaps should have done something to slow the downward spiral of the PR economy, and perhaps such actions would have helped make the island's infrastructure less vulnerable than it proved to be. But all of that is speculative. Between three bad hurricanes, multiple tornadoes, and hundreds of wildfires, it should be obvious that our federal resources in terms of disaster relief are being stretched mighty thin. While Trump bashing can certainly be a lot of fun, it seems to me that pinning any and all mis-steps in terms of disaster relief for any of those situations on him exclusively is a bit of a stretch.   

 

6 minutes ago, Rael said:

That is a very rational, well thought out post Papi. However, it isn't like this thread was started as a bash Trump thread. It was started, well, to be honest I'm not sure why, but it seems its purpose was to praise the dear leader and to absolve him from any mis-steps based on the idea that Puerto Rico wasn't a fiscally pristine place to begin with. I don't believe their financial situation absolves the president from doing the right thing, nor excuse his (admittedly not limited to this event) stupid statements and postures. I would imagine we share a fair amount of common ground there. 

I agree with you both.

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3 minutes ago, Bawlmerian said:

I was there.  I don't need anyone to tell me.  I know the roads and power grid worked (aging and maybe not state of the art).

Are you an engineer?

Expert in infrastructure?

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38 minutes ago, stevez51 said:

My brother in laws wife is from there. Its beautiful to her, but he says its a ****hole ......

It does have its good points. off topic story: i took 3 years of Spanish in high school. Of course they taught classical (Castilian/Old World Spanish.)

I served with many PR's, and i never could understand a word they were saying! Good guys though, for the most part.

I can tell you one thing though, for some reason every PR i ever met hated Cubans with a venom worse than I've ever seen. even worse that the blatant vitriol  we see on this forum!

Edited by blowboatbethesda

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10 minutes ago, Bawlmerian said:

I was there.  I don't need anyone to tell me.  I know the roads and power grid worked (aging and maybe not state of the art).

Not trying to be a wise arse,  but the infrastructure there probably is about the same as many areas on the mainland US!. :)

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5 minutes ago, blowboatbethesda said:

Not trying to be a wise arse,  but the infrastructure there probably is about the same as many areas on the mainland US!. :)

That's the truth.  The pipes under Baltimore are 100+ years old.

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1 minute ago, Rael said:

There is a difference between attacking your position and a personal attack. Yes, you have always been a gentleman with me and I have no idea whether "all of those others" have all attacked you personally or just your positions so I will take your word for it. When two opposing camps have a pile of rocks, each side can decide whether they will throw one or drop it at their feet. The choice each of us makes in that situation can say a lot about the person. 

I don't give respect when it's not reciprocal.

We can disagree on that.

I get your point and tried it.

It didn't matter.

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1 minute ago, mcorioles said:

I don't give respect when it's not reciprocal.

We can disagree on that.

I get your point and tried it.

It didn't matter.

Fair enough. Oh, and I am usually not a spelling Nazi. I just think if you take the time to question someone's intelligence you should be a bit extra careful with the way you present that particular kind of insult. ;)

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1 minute ago, Rael said:

Fair enough. Oh, and I am usually not a spelling Nazi. I just think if you take the time to question someone's intelligence you should be a bit extra careful with the way you present that particular kind of insult. ;)

I get it.

No problem.

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1 hour ago, Papi said:

Having read through this whole silly thread, and as someone who is anything but a defender of the Moron in Chief, let me say that it is very true that the situation in Puerto Rico, from a financial and infrastructure perspective, has been in a deteriorating situation for quite a few years. That is not a new revelation, but it happens to be a fact. For the last two to three years there has been going ongoing debate over the issue of a bailout, since the island was essentially in default. Given that situation, Puerto Rico was particularly unprepared to deal with a natural disaster of this magnitude. That should be obvious to most folks. 

The question of whether the relief efforts by the federal government has been sufficient (or even if it would possible to be suffcient, given the amount of devastation and the fact that all relief has to come by ship or by air) is a fair debate to have, regardless of who would be president. Trump's comments about the situation have been stupid, to be sure, but no more (or less) stupid than his comments about just about every other topic that he speaks to.

There is some degree of truth to the suggestion that previous administrations (going back as far as Bush and Clinton) perhaps should have done something to slow the downward spiral of the PR economy, and perhaps such actions would have helped make the island's infrastructure less vulnerable than it proved to be. But all of that is speculative. Between three bad hurricanes, multiple tornadoes, and hundreds of wildfires, it should be obvious that our federal resources in terms of disaster relief are being stretched mighty thin. While Trump bashing can certainly be a lot of fun, it seems to me that pinning any and all mis-steps in terms of disaster relief for any of those situations on him exclusively is a bit of a stretch.   

Think this is a straight up example of false equivalency. So neither Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama did enough to turn PR around.  Ok.  But this is a humanitarian crisis, where not doing enough can have, and has had, deadly consequences. There is no excuse for most of the island not to have clean drinking water after 3 weeks.  Clean drinking water is literally a prerequisite for life and if FEMA and the military can't figure that out after 3 weeks then they need to be held accountable. 

I don't pin all the blame on Trump.  Frankly I think he is so inept that it really doesn't occur to me that he could step in and provide real leadership.  It would be nice if he kept the hell out of it, no nonsensical tweets, no threats.  Don't think that's asking too much, do you?

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19 minutes ago, mcorioles said:

So now you play the spell check Nazi.

Have I insulted you? No

Why?

Because to my knowledge you haven't insulted me.

 

See how that works.

Every single one of these losers has attacked me ad nauseum yet its me.

Got it.

So have you, fair is fair.

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20 minutes ago, Rael said:

There is a difference between attacking your position and a personal attack. Yes, you have always been a gentleman with me and I have no idea whether "all of those others" have all attacked you personally or just your positions so I will take your word for it. When two opposing camps have a pile of rocks, each side can decide whether they will throw one or drop it at their feet. The choice each of us makes in that situation can say a lot about the person. 

Well said.

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5 minutes ago, ms maggie said:

Think this is a straight up example of false equivalency. So neither Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama did enough to turn PR around.  Ok.  But this is a humanitarian crisis, where not doing enough can have, and has had, deadly consequences. There is no excuse for most of the island not to have clean drinking water after 3 weeks.  Clean drinking water is literally a prerequisite for life and if FEMA and the military can't figure that out after 3 weeks then they need to be held accountable. 

I don't pin all the blame on Trump.  Frankly I think he is so inept that it really doesn't occur to me that he could step in and provide real leadership.  It would be nice if he kept the hell out of it, no nonsensical tweets, no threats.  Don't think that's asking too much, do you?

Another well-"spoken" post.

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10 minutes ago, ODENTON said:

So have you, fair is fair.

BS.

All you do is insult posters not just me.

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