Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Slidemaster

Is Ben Done?

83 posts in this topic

He looks bad, and his team is filled with weapons most qbs dream about.  On top of that, when asked about his performance, he said "maybe I don't have it anymore."  He quickly corrected himself, but it sure sounded like he meant what he said.

I think the end may be nearing.  He's had a great career, but all those beatings he's taken have to be taking their toll these days.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the end is nearing for Roethlisberger.  His style of play is different than that of QB's like Brady or Manning in that he holds the ball longer to allow plays to develop and in so doing subjects his body to more punishment than they did.  He may be in his last year, and if not, certainly in the last few years of his career.  As for a team full of weapons, I think much of that is because of him, not necessarily because the Steelers have somehow cornered the market on drafting wide receivers.  If you look back at his career, Roethlisberger has always had what would be considered top notch receivers.  But a closer inspection would prove that none of those receivers who were considered pro bowl status players did much of anything after leaving Pittsburgh.  Plaxico Burress had some success with the Giants, but nothing like what he had in Pittsburgh.  Santonio Holmes did nothing once leaving Pittsburgh.  Mike Wallace parlayed his short time in Pittsburgh into a couple of big contracts with Minnesota and Miami and never lived up to those contracts.  He remains an average receiver at best.  Even Brown who is regarded as the best receiver in the game has been only ordinary when Roethlisberger has been hurt.  Pittsburgh has been looked at as a team that somehow has a crystal ball when it comes to drafting and producing great wide receivers.  I think when Roethlisberger is done that crystal ball may go away and people will realize they were no better than anyone else at doing that, they simply had a QB that was able to make those receivers look better than they actually were.  I think that Pittsburgh works very hard in practice on what receivers should do once a play breaks down and the QB and receivers have to improvise and play street football and that builds both Roethlisberger's and his receivers totals up.  Without him, those receivers that looked real good in Pittsburgh uniforms seem to become quite average for other teams.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea I think he's going through a normal process- age. Where he's been able to use his superior size/strength combo in the past to his benefit- those advantages are now dwindling. He looks fatter, older, slower, weaker. He definitely can't do what he used to be able to do- extending and making extraordinary plays, and like renegade said- that ability is really what made him stand apart.

But I would caution against putting Holmes/ Mike Wallace in the same category as Antonio Brown. Brown is a different kind of WR altogether and has more playmaking ability than either of those guys- although Holmes I think was closer to him than Wallace even though Wallace has parlayed his skill set into a longer career. Rothlisberger also had a SB MVP in Hines Ward for a bit which can help a young QB develop.

 

 

Anyway - good riddance. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ben looks bloated and puffy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, OriginalColtsFan said:

Ben looks bloated and puffy.

haha- he really does. He could probably prolong his career if he took on Brady's diet /regiment but he seems to not give a ****.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, cprenegade said:

I think the end is nearing for Roethlisberger.  His style of play is different than that of QB's like Brady or Manning in that he holds the ball longer to allow plays to develop and in so doing subjects his body to more punishment than they did.  He may be in his last year, and if not, certainly in the last few years of his career.  As for a team full of weapons, I think much of that is because of him, not necessarily because the Steelers have somehow cornered the market on drafting wide receivers.  If you look back at his career, Roethlisberger has always had what would be considered top notch receivers.  But a closer inspection would prove that none of those receivers who were considered pro bowl status players did much of anything after leaving Pittsburgh.  Plaxico Burress had some success with the Giants, but nothing like what he had in Pittsburgh.  Santonio Holmes did nothing once leaving Pittsburgh.  Mike Wallace parlayed his short time in Pittsburgh into a couple of big contracts with Minnesota and Miami and never lived up to those contracts.  He remains an average receiver at best.  Even Brown who is regarded as the best receiver in the game has been only ordinary when Roethlisberger has been hurt.  Pittsburgh has been looked at as a team that somehow has a crystal ball when it comes to drafting and producing great wide receivers.  I think when Roethlisberger is done that crystal ball may go away and people will realize they were no better than anyone else at doing that, they simply had a QB that was able to make those receivers look better than they actually were.  I think that Pittsburgh works very hard in practice on what receivers should do once a play breaks down and the QB and receivers have to improvise and play street football and that builds both Roethlisberger's and his receivers totals up.  Without him, those receivers that looked real good in Pittsburgh uniforms seem to become quite average for other teams.   

Great post, really hits the mark.

It does look like Ben is getting close to the end.  He just looks slow and fat to me.  I never got the impression he was much into working out, more into drinking and partying.  Maybe the partying slowed down after he got married(still question if that wasn't for show to this day, honestly), but he looks bloated as hell. 

Good riddance indeed.  Never liked the guy, Steeler or not. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, alienrace said:

Good riddance indeed.  Never liked the guy, Steeler or not. 

And once again, I couldn't disagree with you more. I never liked him as a person but as a QB he was one of a kind. And if you can't recognize and respect that, you really have no appreciation whatsoever for the game of football. You're just a typical homer.

Edited by OriginalColtsFan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't be surprised if Roethlesberger goes into KC and torches them for over 300 yards and the Steelers win.  I'm not letting one freakish game like last week delude me into thinking he's done and that the Steelers on the verge of falling apart.  If his play continues to deteriorate over an extended period of time, maybe then I'll buy into the demise of Big Ben.  Until then, they're still the team to beat in AFC North. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, jamesdean said:

Don't be surprised if Roethlesberger goes into KC and torches them for over 300 yards and the Steelers win.  I'm not letting one freakish game like last week delude me into thinking he's done and that the Steelers on the verge of falling apart.  If his play continues to deteriorate over an extended period of time, maybe then I'll buy into the demise of Big Ben.  Until then, they're still the team to beat in AFC North. 

I agree 100%.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Eastside Terp said:

Anybody here that wouldn't trade joe for ben? .....

That's kind of what I was getting at with my response to A.R. But at this stage of their respective careers? I dunno. Give it a couple of weeks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is Ben done? If you want an answer to that right now, then it's "No".  Ben's averaging almost 40 passing attempts per game right now through 5 weeks. Much like Joe, the more they ask Ben to throw, the less they win.

If you look at Ben's career game log, in his top 45 most "pass attempt happy" affairs, the Steelers are 13-32.  The only person who bucks that "Throw more, win a lot less" trend is Tom Brady. 

The Steelers have become too pass-oriented and it's not the best form factor for their offense (and Ben's performance).  The week they ran the ball best (vs. BAL) was the week they looked the best overall.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ravens2006 said:

Is Ben done? If you want an answer to that right now, then it's "No".  Ben's averaging almost 40 passing attempts per game right now through 5 weeks. Much like Joe, the more they ask Ben to throw, the less they win.

If you look at Ben's career game log, in his top 45 most "pass attempt happy" affairs, the Steelers are 13-32.  The only person who bucks that "Throw more, win a lot less" trend is Tom Brady. 

The Steelers have become too pass-oriented and it's not the best form factor for their offense (and Ben's performance).  The week they ran the ball best (vs. BAL) was the week they looked the best overall.

 

Couldn't that pass stat be kind of skewed though?  Teams tend to pass most when they are already behind, so it might not tell the whole story.  Also, at least 7-10 "passes" a week are headed 3 yards into the hands of Le'Veon Bell.

I'm not saying that running more and passing less isn't the recipe for success for them, but maybe it's because his skill is diminishing as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, OriginalColtsFan said:

That's kind of what I was getting at with my response to A.R. But at this stage of their respective careers? I dunno. Give it a couple of weeks.

I'd take Ben straight up for Joe tomorrow ......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Eastside Terp said:

I'd take Ben straight up for Joe tomorrow ......

I can see that. It's definitely got some merit. I just think Ben is really done (as in this will probably be his last year) and Joe's still got a couple years left in the tank.

Edited by OriginalColtsFan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Roethlisberger has trouble staying on the field for 16 games even with an offensive line that is recognized as top 5 in the game now.  With the junk line the Ravens have he would be dismembered within two weeks and even the parts leftover would be unrecognizable.  Flacco is also living on borrowed time if the Ravens continue to try and run an offense with an O-line that allows him to get hit every time he drops back to pass.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Eastside Terp said:

Anybody here that wouldn't trade joe for ben? .....

I wouldn't. BR has too much baggage on him and gets hurt more often than he is hurt.

Edited by ncbirdfan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, cprenegade said:

Roethlisberger has trouble staying on the field for 16 games even with an offensive line that is recognized as top 5 in the game now.  With the junk line the Ravens have he would be dismembered within two weeks and even the parts leftover would be unrecognizable.  Flacco is also living on borrowed time if the Ravens continue to try and run an offense with an O-line that allows him to get hit every time he drops back to pass.  

Every time he throws an interception he gets injured. You can see him hobble back to the sidelines.

Edited by ncbirdfan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Eastside Terp said:

I'd take Ben straight up for Joe tomorrow ......

When he was going through his rape allegations and the Steelers were supposedly trying to shop him, I told anyone that would listen that I'd take him for Joe in a heartbeat.  Right now though, I don't know what it would prove.  Both have seen their better years and given time to throw, will produce about the same numbers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ben has heart, toughness and is a real competitor ......

All the things Joe is lacking ......

Those things will help you win as the skills erode .....

Joe needs everything to be perfect and then he throws beautiful passes like playing catch on the beach ......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have seen the Steelers lose some clunkers over the Ben years, only to bounce back. But this year just looks and feel different. Ben just seems off.  And slow. 

Pittsburgh is about to play a solid team. If they get manhandled by KC, it will answer some questions. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Eastside Terp said:

Ben has heart, toughness and is a real competitor ......

All the things Joe is lacking ......

Those things will help you win as the skills erode .....

Joe needs everything to be perfect and then he throws beautiful passes like playing catch on the beach ......

I think Joe showed all those traits the year the Ravens won the SB. 

Edited by mlatoman
Incorrect data

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Eastside Terp said:

Ben has heart, toughness and is a real competitor ......

All the things Joe is lacking ......

Those things will help you win as the skills erode .....

Joe needs everything to be perfect and then he throws beautiful passes like playing catch on the beach ......

You've got it backwards. Joe needs to be near perfect to get any credit. He's had anything BUT "perfect" the entire time he's been here and he's won 1 super bowl, and been on the verge of taking his far from perfect team to the super bowl two other times. So really...what are you talking about? Perfect? LOL. That's a joke.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, mlatoman said:

I think Joe showed all those traits the year the Ravens won the SB. 

If Flacco had at a few receivers that actually could catch the ball (even with those lousy OLs) the Ravens would be in 2 more Super Bowls IMO. And anyone who questions his toughness really doesn't understand the game much. BR has more theatrics with his hobbling around the field, but Flacco (again MO) is every bit as tough as BN if not more...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, ncbirdfan said:

If Flacco had at a few receivers that actually could catch the ball (even with those lousy OLs) the Ravens would be in 2 more Super Bowls IMO. And anyone who questions his toughness really doesn't understand the game much. BR has more theatrics with his hobbling around the field, but Flacco (again MO) is every bit as tough as BN if not more...

 

Definitely toughness is one of Flacco's best qualities. When he got his knee shredded he stood in and ran the next play. He seems to have an old-school type QB mentality too. BR complains calls his teammates out publicly in passive/aggressive ways. Flacco always stands behind his guys regardless of if they play well or not, never deviates or blames.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0