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ms maggie

Puerto Rico

67 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, ms maggie said:

My "assumption" is that if people who need dialysis, IV antibiotics etc don't get it, some of them will die. This is what is called "medical science". In fact,it has already happened. 

There is a hospital ship that can handle 250 people, it currently is at far less than capacity and within close proximity to many of the sick. 

Connect the dots. 

If there is a natural disaster anywhere in the country and the federal govt can provide aid to save lives, that is their responsiblity. Again if the options are let people die or usurp the state's authority and save lives, the only moral decision is the second one. State or local officials who are standing in the way of getting desperately ill people the care they need are committing a crime. 

And you keep assuming that the state govt would have to be "usurped".  Are you suggesting Washington has offered to help get the seriously ill to the COMFORT and has been refused?  

So tell me, how are the military or FEMA staff supposed to know where the folks who need dialysis, IV antibiotics, etc are located? That seems to be the issue - identifying and locating patients that need the facilities available on the Comfort. If local health officials can't do it, how are people from offshore supposed to be able to do it? Be practical for just a minute. You say that the Comfort is in close proximity to many of the sick. How do you know that? Just because it is docked in San Juan harbor doesn't mean it is particulalry close (geographically) to people in need of its services. PR is a small island, but not that small. 

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2 hours ago, ms maggie said:

It's just an excuse to avoid blaming Trump.  Personally I don't blame Trump, he would have no idea how to get anything done.  But surely the head military or FEMA guy on the ground could step in and offer to lead the efforts.  As I noted in my response to P, if these PR officials are aware people are dying due to their bureaucratic nonsense and they would resist the federal help, they would be liable for criminal penalties.  This is just bull****. 

Why would I want to make an excuse for the Moron in Chief?

I am not making excuses for anyone. I am simply stating the obvious - that politics aside the task of identifying and locating patients who may need the medical services of the Comfort is a daunting one absent detailed medical records of existing cases and absent an effective communications grid on the island. The communication issue is a priority for the recovery folks to address and they are slowly restoring communication to parts of the island, but with over 3 million people living there identifying those who need transport to the ship remains a huge challenge, regardless of who is "in charge".

The restoration of safe drinking water supplies, the restoration of power, and the restoration of communication remain the three biggest high priority tasks. Are you accusing the teams from FEMA and the military of ignoring those issues? In the meantime food and bottled water is being distributed across the island. Absent the key communications links that need to be restored, identifying and rescuing patients in need of sophisticated medical treatment will be a slow process. 

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55 minutes ago, Papi said:

So tell me, how are the military or FEMA staff supposed to know where the folks who need dialysis, IV antibiotics, etc are located? That seems to be the issue - identifying and locating patients that need the facilities available on the Comfort. If local health officials can't do it, how are people from offshore supposed to be able to do it? Be practical for just a minute. You say that the Comfort is in close proximity to many of the sick. How do you know that? Just because it is docked in San Juan harbor doesn't mean it is particulalry close (geographically) to people in need of its services. PR is a small island, but not that small. 

OMG, have you been following the news on this?  There have been dozens of reports of people in need of treatment--if the reporters found them, pretty sure FEMA can.  Funnily enough, a number of them are in hospitals that are bereft of the basics--power, meds etc.

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3 minutes ago, ms maggie said:

OMG, have you been following the news on this?  There have been dozens of reports of people in need of treatment--if the reporters found them, pretty sure FEMA can.  Funnily enough, a number of them are in hospitals that are bereft of the basics--power, meds etc.

So anecdotal instances on the TV news have you convinced that FEMA and the military are incompetent and that Trump needs to exert better leadership over them and the PR authorities. Got it. :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Papi said:

So anecdotal instances on the TV news have you convinced that FEMA and the military are incompetent and that Trump needs to exert better leadership over them and the PR authorities. Got it. :rolleyes:

Ah, the retort of the Trumpian: Fake News!!

Guess that COMFORT utilization number is "anecdotal" too, huh?

Edited by ms maggie

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Trump administration gives itself a "10" out of "10" on its handling of post-Maria Puerto Rico.

You can't make this stuff up.

:D:lol:

Edited by Evil Yoda

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5 hours ago, Papi said:

So tell me, how are the military or FEMA staff supposed to know where the folks who need dialysis, IV antibiotics, etc are located? That seems to be the issue - identifying and locating patients that need the facilities available on the Comfort. If local health officials can't do it, how are people from offshore supposed to be able to do it? Be practical for just a minute. You say that the Comfort is in close proximity to many of the sick. How do you know that? Just because it is docked in San Juan harbor doesn't mean it is particulalry close (geographically) to people in need of its services. PR is a small island, but not that small. 

The ground commander starts transporting anyone he or his medics think might need the ship and let the ship's personnel determine if they were wrong and send those who don't need it back. Military leaders are trained (raised in a sense) to make things happen even without full guidance from highers.

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4 hours ago, ms maggie said:

Ah, the retort of the Trumpian: Fake News!!

Guess that COMFORT utilization number is "anecdotal" too, huh?

Bugger off Maggie. Your whole issue is partisan crap and I am simply talking about the realistic situation on the ground. Trying to discuss this with you is like talking to a brick wall.

And that you call me a "Trumpian" is an insult that I do not take lightly, and simply proves that you are incapable of paying attention to what I have posted. We are done. Take your partisan attitude and do something with it. I really don't care what.

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1 hour ago, Struds said:

The ground commander starts transporting anyone he or his medics think might need the ship and let the ship's personnel determine if they were wrong and send those who don't need it back. Military leaders are trained (raised in a sense) to make things happen even without full guidance from highers.

You have to know where they are first! How basic is that? Do tell.....

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2 minutes ago, Papi said:

You have to know where they are first! How basic is that? Do tell.....

Sorry, I'm assuming everybody on the ground is not blind, and that they are looking for people in need of help. Is that a stupid assumption?

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1 minute ago, Struds said:

Sorry, I'm assuming everybody on the ground is not blind, and that they are looking for people in need of help. Is that a stupid assumption?

It's a big island in that regard. Get real.

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10 minutes ago, Papi said:

It's a big island in that regard. Get real.

So they see nothing and nobody approaches the troops and asks for help? That seems odd. I'm not suggesting the troops can possibly ID everybody that needs help, but surely they could have moved 250 (I think I read that is the ship's capacity) potential patients by now and let the medical personnel send back those not in dire straits.

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2 hours ago, Papi said:

You have to know where they are first! How basic is that? Do tell.....

Here ya go:

"Clinics on the island have been overwhelmed with patients since Hurricane Maria made landfall there, but patients and staff say they’re not sure how to start sending sick people over. The ship, the USNS Comfort, is sitting right off shore with just 13 per cent of its 250 beds in use nearly two weeks after it arrived.

While the official death toll has creeped up to 48 so far, reports from the island indicate that people have been dying in hospitals as doctors run out of medication or fuel from generators, leaving people who rely on oxygen, or dialysis, at risk."

Look in the hospitals and clinics. Genius huh?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/puerto-rico-hospital-ship-floating-how-to-get-to-help-no-one-knows-latest-a8005346.html

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9 hours ago, ms maggie said:

Here ya go:

"Clinics on the island have been overwhelmed with patients since Hurricane Maria made landfall there, but patients and staff say they’re not sure how to start sending sick people over. The ship, the USNS Comfort, is sitting right off shore with just 13 per cent of its 250 beds in use nearly two weeks after it arrived.

While the official death toll has creeped up to 48 so far, reports from the island indicate that people have been dying in hospitals as doctors run out of medication or fuel from generators, leaving people who rely on oxygen, or dialysis, at risk."

Look in the hospitals and clinics. Genius huh?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/puerto-rico-hospital-ship-floating-how-to-get-to-help-no-one-knows-latest-a8005346.html

How are those communication links doing? Are the cell towers back up yet? Is the power back on yet? Oh, and by the way, aside from assumptions about "people dying in hospitals", what are the actual facts? How many patients who truly need to be transferred to the Comfort haven't been sent there so far? Does anyone really know, or it is all a lot of media conjecture? That's all I am asking - without the partisan politcal overtones . 

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11 hours ago, Struds said:

So they see nothing and nobody approaches the troops and asks for help? That seems odd. I'm not suggesting the troops can possibly ID everybody that needs help, but surely they could have moved 250 (I think I read that is the ship's capacity) potential patients by now and let the medical personnel send back those not in dire straits.

So you are suggesting that they just gather up a couple hundred folks who "might" need help on the Comfort and send them over, so they can be sent back if they are not in need of that level of attention? That seems like an awful waste of resources. I suspect the people on the ground are smarter than that. 

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6 minutes ago, Papi said:

So you are suggesting that they just gather up a couple hundred folks who "might" need help on the Comfort and send them over, so they can be sent back if they are not in need of that level of attention? That seems like an awful waste of resources. I suspect the people on the ground are smarter than that. 

Sort of, but I'm guessing there is medical staff present that can make a better determination than "might" about people at the hospitals and clinics Ms Maggie mentioned.  Don't you?  

Like I said before, the mantra is: do something, even if it's wrong.  Doing nothing accomplishes just that.

 

Anyway, just what are we arguing about here?    

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4 minutes ago, Struds said:

Sort of, but I'm guessing there is medical staff present that can make a better determination than "might" about people at the hospitals and clinics Ms Maggie mentioned.  Don't you?  

Like I said before, the mantra is: do something, even if it's wrong.  Doing nothing accomplishes just that.

 

Anyway, just what are we arguing about here?    

We seem to be arguing over whether the folks on the ground are doing "nothing". That's what I don't buy. I am not so naive to suggest that everything on the ground is going as perfectly as it should, but it seems to me that there is an awful lot of criticism being aimed at the relief efforts but there are not a whole lot of facts to back much of that criticism up. Have hundreds of people died? No. Is there conjecture that it could happen? Yes. I see a huge difference but some apparently do not. From all reports there appear to be major efforts underway to get power, communication, and ground transport back up and running, which clearly are prerequisites to many other things. 

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