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Half of Millennials would prefer to live in a socialist or communist country

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According to the latest survey from the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, a D.C.-based nonprofit, one in two U.S. millennials say they would rather live in a socialist or communist country than a capitalist democracy.

Millennials are increasingly turning away from capitalism and toward socialism and even communism as a viable alternative.”

But do they even know what it is?

The survey, which was conducted by research and data firm YouGov, found that millennials are the least knowledgable generation on the subject, with 71% failing to identify the proper definition of communism.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/millennials-communism-sounds-pretty-chill-2017-11-01

This is pathetic.  I blame the schools.

I think we have a couple of those millennials here on the board.  

Edited by Smokey 1

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 What’s that say about the future the Republican Party? 

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1 minute ago, Bawlmerian said:

 What’s that say about the future the Republican Party? 

I don't know, I don't care about the Republican Party but what does it say about the future of freedom in this country?

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19 minutes ago, Smokey 1 said:

I don't know, I don't care about the Republican Party but what does it say about the future of freedom in this country?

Good things!  Most of them will moderate with age.  But our future freedom depends on getting rid of Trump and his cronies before the Republic is destroyed. Our largest threat is not communists.  It is facists.  

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They may be on to something. Surveys show on a regular basis that people are happier in places like the Scandinavian countries.

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28 minutes ago, Smokey 1 said:

This is pathetic.  I blame the schools.

I think we have a couple of those millennials here on the board.  

Have you spent any time in socialist countries? I have, Sweden and Denmark. Wonderful places.

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3 minutes ago, hst2 said:

They may be on to something. Surveys show on a regular basis that people are happier in places like the Scandinavian countries.

Because its too cold to go outside ..???

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23 minutes ago, Smokey 1 said:

... but what does it say about the future of freedom in this country?

It all depends on what you mean by "freedom". 

Many people use that word prominently, but few bother to discuss what it actually and specifically means. It is not at all obvious.

Are there a set of core requirements that must be met for a place to be called "free"? I'm not so sure and I don't think that many socialist governments are "less free" than our government in the USA.

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Just now, dogstarman said:

It all depends on what you mean by "freedom". 

Many people use that word prominently, but few bother to discuss what it actually and specifically means. It is not at all obvious.

Are there a set of core requirements that must be met for a place to be called "free"? I'm not so sure and I don't think that many socialist governments are "less free" than our government in the USA.

His idea of freedom is those that have,  get more, at the expense of everyone else.

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38 minutes ago, Smokey 1 said:

This is pathetic.  I blame the schools.

I think we have a couple of those millennials here on the board.  

Quote

" ... one in two U.S. millennials say they would rather live in a socialist or communist country than a capitalist democracy ... "

A little dishonesty there in intimating that only a capitalist country can be a democracy. 

Edited by WKDWZD

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The big problem with things like this is that the definition of "communism" and "socialism" aren't objective from person to person; many people on this forum just call things they don't like "socialism". Communism should be easy to define; Marx was very clear in his ideology (and even in socialism), yet there have been countries that have been "communist" but they really don't meet the threshold because Marx's communism doesn't have a an authoritarian/totalitarian leader or government system sitting at the top of it.

We're not really running a capitalistic economic system in the true sense, and I don't think that's a bad thing. No pure ideology will work in reality (thanks to humans), and we do pretty well with a modified/hybrid system.

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1 hour ago, Smokey 1 said:

This is pathetic.  I blame the schools.

I think we have a couple of those millennials here on the board.  

LMAO!!! You expect us to believe stats created by republicans.

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1 hour ago, Smokey 1 said:

I don't know, I don't care about the Republican Party but what does it say about the future of freedom in this country?

I'm really not that familiar with socialist countries so I don't know what freedoms we would be losing.

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The social democracies of Northern Europe, which are essentially what the average Democrats would like this country to be more like, are often derided as socialist by the US right. But they aren’t, they are still capitalist economies, they’re just more regulated than the US. My guess is the average person answering this survey wants the US to more closely resemble Sweden (which is often held up as some sort of egalitarian utopia in left wing circles) and not the former Warsaw Pact countries. I could be wrong, maybe they really do want full scale nationalization of the means of production, but I doubt it.

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2 hours ago, Smokey 1 said:

This is pathetic.  I blame the schools.

I think we have a couple of those millennials here on the board.  

I’d guess half of the millie’s here would roll that way and are proud of it.

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11 minutes ago, Jimmy Jazz said:

The social democracies of Northern Europe, which are essentially what the average Democrats would like this country to be more like, are often derided as socialist by the US right. But they aren’t, they are still capitalist economies, they’re just more regulated than the US. My guess is the average person answering this survey wants the US to more closely resemble Sweden (which is often held up as some sort of egalitarian utopia in left wing circles) and not the former Warsaw Pact countries. I could be wrong, maybe they really do want full scale nationalization of the means of production, but I doubt it.

I asked my grandsons.   Your guess is correct, at least for them, that they would like the US to be more like Sweden.

A side note both grandsons are college educated (paid for by themselves) and well employed.

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Yeah the boomers really brought out how crooked capitalism could be, so it's hard to be surprised.

Mixed economies work best.

Edited by Calamari

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2 hours ago, Smokey 1 said:

This is pathetic.  I blame the schools.

I think we have a couple of those millennials here on the board.  

I blame Trump and the Republican Party. They see the corruption and the peril it has to offer and will see anything else as something better. They are correct.

Edited by ncbirdfan

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2 hours ago, ms maggie said:

Have you spent any time in socialist countries? I have, Sweden and Denmark. Wonderful places.

They are not socialist countries.  Even the Prime Minister of Denmark stated this!  

Danish PM in US: Denmark is not socialist

"I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,” Rasmussen said. “The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state which provides a high level of security for its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish,”  he added. 

Socialism has failed everywhere it has been tried.  It failed in the 20th century (China, USSR, East Germany) and is failing in the 21st century (Venezuela is a prime example).

The Myth of Scandinavian Socialism

Quote

 

In the Scandinavian countries, like all other developed nations, the means of production are primarily owned by private individuals, not the community or the government, and resources are allocated to their respective uses by the market, not government or community planning.

While it is true that the Scandinavian countries provide things like a generous social safety net and universal healthcare, an extensive welfare state is not the same thing as socialism. What Sanders and his supporters confuse as socialism is actually social democracy, a system in which the government aims to promote the public welfare through heavy taxation and spending, within the framework of a capitalist economy. This is what the Scandinavians practice.

The Scandinavians embrace a brand of free-market capitalism that exists in conjunction with a large welfare state, known as the “Nordic Model,” which includes many policies that democratic socialists would likely abhor.  For example, democratic socialists are generally opponents of global capitalism and free trade, but the Scandinavian countries have fully embraced these things. The Economist magazine describes the Scandinavian countries as “stout free-traders who resist the temptation to intervene even to protect iconic companies.” Perhaps this is why Denmark, Norway, and Sweden rank among the most globalized countries in the entire world. These countries all also rank in the top 10 easiest countries to do business in.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Glengarry said:

They are not socialist countries.  Even the Prime Minister of Denmark stated this!  

Danish PM in US: Denmark is not socialist

"I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,” Rasmussen said. “The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state which provides a high level of security for its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish,”  he added. 

Socialism has failed everywhere it has been tried.  It failed in the 20th century (China, USSR, East Germany) and is failing in the 21st century (Venezuela is a prime example).

The Myth of Scandinavian Socialism

 

Great post... and a necessary distinction... one that goes sailing over the heads of most betaversians.

Since the great Commie scare of the 50s and 60s, it's become fashionable to label everything to the left of some mythical 'middle' as 'communist/socialist'. (the words erroneously used interchangeably) 

Our loyal rightists on the board have proven immune to this distinction to date; maybe you and your argument will have better luck.

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3 hours ago, Smokey 1 said:

This is pathetic.  I blame the schools.

I think we have a couple of those millennials here on the board.  

I can understand it. The capitalists here have become completely dominated by their greediest elements. You're either extremely greedy, or you're taking direction from them (Wall Street bankers are well represented in the extremely greedy group). They see capitalism as essentially predatory because that's what it has become. It's sad, because if these businessmen could rein in their worst impulses, a lot of what's wrong in this country would be right again.

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34 minutes ago, Glengarry said:

They are not socialist countries.  Even the Prime Minister of Denmark stated this!  

Danish PM in US: Denmark is not socialist

"I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,” Rasmussen said. “The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state which provides a high level of security for its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish,”  he added. 

Socialism has failed everywhere it has been tried.  It failed in the 20th century (China, USSR, East Germany) and is failing in the 21st century (Venezuela is a prime example).

The Myth of Scandinavian Socialism

 

Nonsense. China, USSR, East Germany, Venezuela are/were totalitarian regimes. That was their downfall. 

Socialism can be practiced within democracies and totalitarian govts. And like capitalism, it can be practiced in degrees.

That the right leaning PM of Denmark rejects the appellation is a surprise?

The modern, commonly accepted definition of socialism is as much about common responsibility for the general welfare (education, healthcare) as it is about means of production.

Edited by ms maggie

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Most young adults feel American Capitalism sucks and I can’t say they’re wrong

We need a hybrid economic system. I think the German model works best

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22 minutes ago, Evil Yoda said:

I can understand it. The capitalists here have become completely dominated by their greediest elements. You're either extremely greedy, or you're taking direction from them (Wall Street bankers are well represented in the extremely greedy group). They see capitalism as essentially predatory because that's what it has become. It's sad, because if these businessmen could rein in their worst impulses, a lot of what's wrong in this country would be right again.

When you look at the cost of living today for things like College, Health Insurance, Home Ownership, Rent, etc, it’s easy to understand why young adults feel they’re getting the shaft from Capitalists. 

Something will have to give in the next decade or so. We may be heading for the same types of instability being experienced in places like Spain and Greece. 

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