soulflower

Mass Shooting near San Antonio

487 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, mrdeltoid said:

Not to mention there are more accidental drowning in pools than accidental gun deaths. Why no cry for pool control. Or studies on "pool violence ". Or car control. Nobody needs to go 110 mph do they? And so on. Your wasting your breath my friend. Gun hopolophobia is a serious condition.

Not many pool suicides. 

Many more children play in pools than play with guns.

 

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7 hours ago, mrdeltoid said:

As a citizen, because there is a need for a standing army, my right to protect myself from said army, militia, etc, shall not be infringed. Had the citizens not been armed , we'd still be under the boot of the England. More than 30 states interpreted it the same way.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State , the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. It doesn't say, "the right of milititia members to keep and bear arms, it says "the right of the people. It is the most precise amendment .

Here in the united states, each state has it's own "national guard". This is todays version of "well regulated militia." The founding fathers were so concerned about the tyranny they suffered under the crown, they put that language in the 2nd amendment so it would be clear why, the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. In any way. The majority of the states read it the same way, as if one want's to carry a fire arm, and they are law abiding, they may. Have you ever read any of the federalists papers on the subject? It explains in detail the founding fathers fear of a standing army at peace time. They valued our independence so much, they made sure if the government turn against the people, they would have a means to fight back. That is the double edged sword of the "wild west". It can be dangerous, but we'll tolerate it to protect our independence. And we will fight, savagely. as history shows.

Washington Blames Militia for Problems

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53 minutes ago, mrdeltoid said:

Operator error mostly. Carelessness or stupidity. Unfortunately.

Sounds more like negligence, not accidental.

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7 hours ago, mrdeltoid said:

It seems that 33 states believe we do have that right. Here's a brain teaser for you: This was an actual case I testified in. A man walked out of a night club. As he opened his car to get in, 2 guys jumped him, started beating him with a bumper jack and a baseball bat. As he slumped in his car, he grabbed a gun from under his seat and shot one of his assailants to death. He was charged with 2nd degree murder. The gun was his, but carrying it in his car loaded was illegal(by Maryland law). What would you guess his verdict was??

Those 33  states passed laws to that effect. That doesn't mean there's a constitutional right to carry.  There isn't one. My quote from Heller said so. As for your scenario, the law is the law. Don't like it, do something to change it. What other laws should we be allowed to violate? If my house is about to be foreclosed on, should I be allowed to rob a bank to stop it? Your interpretation of the 2A is irrelevant. The Supremes interpretation is law of the land.

Edited by bmore_ken

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20 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

Those 33  states passed laws to that effect. That doesn't mean there's a constitutional right to carry.  There isn't one. My quote from Heller said so. As for your scenario, the law is the law. Don't like it, do something to change it. What other laws should we be allowed to violate? If my house is about to be foreclosed on, should I be allowed to rob a bank to stop it? Your interpretation of the 2A is irrelevant. The Supremes interpretation is law of the land.

He was found not guilty as he used self defense argument.   Also, the "militia" , referred to in the 2a, could be argued from this stand point:

Root reforms and **** Act[edit]

125px-Elihu_Root%2C_bw_photo_portrait%2C
 
Secretary of War Elihu Root worked to reform Army after Spanish–American War.

As a result of the problems identified during the Spanish–American War, Secretary of War Elihu Root and other military leaders took steps to reform the Army, including the National Guard. Root's allies included Charles ****, Congressman (later Senator) from Ohio and Chairman of the House Militia Affairs Committee, who also served as President of the National Guard Association of the United States.[14] **** was a veteran of the Spanish–American War and a longtime National Guard member who attained the rank of Major General as commander of the Ohio National Guard.[15][16]

**** championed the Militia Act of 1903, which became known as the **** Act. This law repealed the Militia Acts of 1792 and designated the militia [per Title 10, Section 311] as two groups: the Unorganized Militia, which included all able-bodied men between ages 17 and 45, and the Organized Militia, which included state militia (National Guard) units receiving federal support.

Could I argue then the age requirement for the "unorganized militia" is now a violation of my civil rights as "age discrimination?"

Otherwise, we are prolly closer in principle than you think. I do agree that the final say should be a "states rights" issue, in which case we are free to move to any state we please. Thank you for the civil discourse.:)

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1 hour ago, hst2 said:

Not many pool suicides. 

Many more children play in pools than play with guns.

 

Many die in pools. Good point.

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3 minutes ago, mrdeltoid said:

He was found not guilty as he used self defense argument.   Also, the "militia" , referred to in the 2a, could be argued from this stand point:

Root reforms and **** Act[edit]

125px-Elihu_Root%2C_bw_photo_portrait%2C
 
Secretary of War Elihu Root worked to reform Army after Spanish–American War.

As a result of the problems identified during the Spanish–American War, Secretary of War Elihu Root and other military leaders took steps to reform the Army, including the National Guard. Root's allies included Charles ****, Congressman (later Senator) from Ohio and Chairman of the House Militia Affairs Committee, who also served as President of the National Guard Association of the United States.[14] **** was a veteran of the Spanish–American War and a longtime National Guard member who attained the rank of Major General as commander of the Ohio National Guard.[15][16]

**** championed the Militia Act of 1903, which became known as the **** Act. This law repealed the Militia Acts of 1792 and designated the militia [per Title 10, Section 311] as two groups: the Unorganized Militia, which included all able-bodied men between ages 17 and 45, and the Organized Militia, which included state militia (National Guard) units receiving federal support.

Could I argue then the age requirement for the "unorganized militia" is now a violation of my civil rights as "age discrimination?"

Otherwise, we are prolly closer in principle than you think. I do agree that the final say should be a "states rights" issue, in which case we are free to move to any state we please. Thank you for the civil discourse.:)

We apparently agree on state's right unless it comes to the 2A, because you seem to think the state of Maryland is violating your constitutional rights by not allowing unrestricted conceal carry. 

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1 minute ago, bmore_ken said:

We apparently agree on state's right unless it comes to the 2A, because you seem to think the state of Maryland is violating your constitutional rights by not allowing unrestricted conceal carry. 

Can't argue with that, and I am doing my part to change that. I have decided to vote in every election, which I haven't done in years. I guess one or 2 issues I'm passionate about are worth compromising other issues I don't support. I just wish I could find a candidate that supported ALL the issues I care about. Oh well.........now I gotta figure which party to join. Decisions, decisions. ugh.....

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1 hour ago, naive said:

Sounds more like negligence, not accidental.

That too.

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2 hours ago, Calamari said:

Massacre insurance is needed.

Do you have yours ..???

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50 minutes ago, mrdeltoid said:

Can't argue with that, and I am doing my part to change that. I have decided to vote in every election, which I haven't done in years. I guess one or 2 issues I'm passionate about are worth compromising other issues I don't support. I just wish I could find a candidate that supported ALL the issues I care about. Oh well.........now I gotta figure which party to join. Decisions, decisions. ugh.....

It's great to find a candidate with whom one agreea on the issues.

But barring that, the next time there is a choice between a mature adult and one with the emotional maturity of a ten year old, let me suggest voting for maturity,

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1 hour ago, mrdeltoid said:

Many die in pools. Good point.

So imagine what the numbers would look like if children played with guns like they play in pools.

It wouldn't even be close.

Edited by hst2

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"Here in the united states, each state has it's own "national guard". This is todays version of "well regulated militia.""

Wrong.

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On 11/5/2017 at 8:57 PM, Papi said:

Their "statistics" in the article about wealth inequality are hyperbole, ar best, and outright distortions at worst. The top 1/10 of 1 percent (which is the number they use, not the top 1%) does not have as much wealth as the "bottom" 90% of the population (which when described that way is an intentional distortion of the facts), but even if they did they would not be the evil beings described in the article. 

I guess that depends on whether you think unmitigated greed is evil or not, doesn't it?

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It doesn't matter to me if more gun owners die by suicide or accidentally. That's their choice or their mistake. I don't care to be left defenseless should the long shot happen one day, and a criminal break into my home while I am there. I can only assume such an individual means me harm, and demand the ability to defend myself from that harm.

When considering the value of something you can't only consider its likelihood of occurrence, which is the fallacy hst2 demonstrates with his arguments. You must also consider the magnitude of the consequences should it occur, which he chooses to ignore.

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19 minutes ago, SemiAuto said:

"Here in the united states, each state has it's own "national guard". This is todays version of "well regulated militia.""

Wrong.

Not wrong

Today, as defined by the Militia Act of 1903, the term "militia" is primarily used to describe two groups within the United States:

  • Organized militia – consisting of State militia forces; notably, the National Guard and Naval Militia.[9] (Note: the National Guard is not to be confused with the National Guard of the United States.)
  • Unorganized militia – composing the Reserve Militia: every able-bodied man of at least 17 and under 45 years of age, not a member of the National Guard or Naval Militia.[10]
    22 minutes ago, SemiAuto said:

    "Here in the united states, each state has it's own "national guard". This is todays version of "well regulated militia.""

    Wrong.

    And from your link:the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

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and the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

It is not just the national guard.   You point it out yourself.

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2 hours ago, stevez51 said:

Do you have yours ..???

Like everyone else here, I just get to wonder when I will be called on by fate to give my life as a sacrifice tax for our 2nd amendment.

Edited by Calamari

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5 minutes ago, Calamari said:

Like everyone else here, I just get to wonder when I will be called on by fate to give my life as a sacrifice tax for our 2nd amendment.

I never wonder that. I guess you're just more nervous than I am.

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59 minutes ago, SemiAuto said:

and the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

It is not just the national guard.   You point it out yourself.

Reporting for duty, General Semi-automatic, sir!  :)

Edited by hst2

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26 minutes ago, Evil Yoda said:

I never wonder that. I guess you're just more nervous than I am.

Think of all those poor bastards afraid to go out without a gun.

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2 hours ago, Evil Yoda said:

It doesn't matter to me if more gun owners die by suicide or accidentally. That's their choice or their mistake. I don't care to be left defenseless should the long shot happen one day, and a criminal break into my home while I am there. I can only assume such an individual means me harm, and demand the ability to defend myself from that harm.

When considering the value of something you can't only consider its likelihood of occurrence, which is the fallacy hst2 demonstrates with his arguments. You must also consider the magnitude of the consequences should it occur, which he chooses to ignore.

How is this a reflection of "The fallacy hst2 demonstrates with his arguments?"

It isn't just gun owners who die accidentally,  it's family and friends as well. And it's up you not to care if people commit suicides with guns, but it brings quite a bit of anguish to families and friends as well.

Recognizing these facts does mean that I dont think that you shouldn't be allowed to buy a gun to protect you and your home. I never said you shouldn't be allowed to do that. The statistics just show its more of a fantasy than a reality. Its much more likely to work against the gun owner, not for them.

As for me, I bought a dog. As a bonus, I get more exercise. 

Edited by hst2

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6 hours ago, hst2 said:

Not many pool suicides. 

Many more children play in pools than play with guns.

 

Here's 6,100 "kids playing with guns"

"But Stead praised the clay target league’s work, including its safety record. That’s something Sable, coaches and even students bring up often: “In all of these years, we’ve never had a single accident or a single issue of a kid bringing a gun or ammunition onto school property,” Sable said."

http://www.startribune.com/high-school-trap-shooting-teams-reawaken-minn-s-aging-gun-clubs/260706411/#1

So let's do the math.

6,100 (kids playing) x 75 (number of shots in a practice/competition round) comes out close to a half a million opportunities for mayhem-that's weekly. Multiply that by 4 (assuming the season runs that many weeks) and then by the number of years the program has been running.....and not an injury tor incident and far, far more safe than all other school athletic activities.

Badminton has more injuries than shooting sports.

Where's the carnage? Shouldn't the bodies be strewn o'er the landscape? :o 

Edited by Dr Johnny Fever

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1 hour ago, Dr Johnny Fever said:

Here's 6,100 "kids playing with guns"

"But Stead praised the clay target league’s work, including its safety record. That’s something Sable, coaches and even students bring up often: “In all of these years, we’ve never had a single accident or a single issue of a kid bringing a gun or ammunition onto school property,” Sable said."

http://www.startribune.com/high-school-trap-shooting-teams-reawaken-minn-s-aging-gun-clubs/260706411/#1

So let's do the math.

6,100 (kids playing) x 75 (number of shots in a practice/competition round) comes out close to a half a million opportunities for mayhem-that's weekly. Multiply that by 4 (assuming the season runs that many weeks) and then by the number of years the program has been running.....and not an injury tor incident and far, far more safe than all other school athletic activities.

Badminton has more injuries than shooting sports.

Where's the carnage? Shouldn't the bodies be strewn o'er the landscape? :o 

Playing with guns, not in the manner that kids play in pools.

 

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