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Lawman 27

Baltimore police launch plainclothes 'decoy unit'

51 posts in this topic

I was under the impression that the BPD was not going to try anymore plainclothes units anymore..

This idea is (of course) going to thrill those people who have no clue what actual Police work is (like Sun reporters, the Mayor, etc). But for those Police who still work the City this will be a nightmare.

There are MANY reasons I have this view, here are a few:

It has been shown from past history that these units are routinely given the best equipment, leaving the working Patrol units without. (The Patrol Car I had before I retired had over 130,000 miles on it and the rear end fell off one day ..(TRUE STORY when I picked the car up from Lewin Avenue shop, the front end fell off as I pulled away)!!! ...Meanwhile a FLEX team had a brand new car to use when they went back and forth to lunch).

Due to the importance that will be bestowed on them by a Commissioner who is desperate that something works, these units will quickly decide they are better than everyone else in the Department and will be glad to show it. (If they follow the specialized units from the past, they will work shifts that have no bearing on the crime rate (but allows for them all the weekends and nights off); they will have every holiday off (again, disregarding the crime rate); etc).

To say nothing of the fact that brand new Officers, fresh out of the Academy, have little to no knowledge of interaction with the Citizens or other Police.


http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-ci-riverside-crime-walk-20171106-story.html#nt=oft01a-7li2

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The truth is that the City's Politicians have fueled a distrust and downright hatred of the Public towards the BPD.

Until they stop using that distrust to get ahead in politics, nothing will change.

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40 minutes ago, Lawman 27 said:

I was under the impression that the BPD was not going to try anymore plainclothes units anymore..

This idea is (of course) going to thrill those people who have no clue what actual Police work is (like Sun reporters, the Mayor, etc). But for those Police who still work the City this will be a nightmare.

There are MANY reasons I have this view, here are a few:

It has been shown from past history that these units are routinely given the best equipment, leaving the working Patrol units without. (The Patrol Car I had before I retired had over 130,000 miles on it and the rear end fell off one day ..(TRUE STORY when I picked the car up from Lewin Avenue shop, the front end fell off as I pulled away)!!! ...Meanwhile a FLEX team had a brand new car to use when they went back and forth to lunch).

Due to the importance that will be bestowed on them by a Commissioner who is desperate that something works, these units will quickly decide they are better than everyone else in the Department and will be glad to show it. (If they follow the specialized units from the past, they will work shifts that have no bearing on the crime rate (but allows for them all the weekends and nights off); they will have every holiday off (again, disregarding the crime rate); etc).

To say nothing of the fact that brand new Officers, fresh out of the Academy, have little to no knowledge of interaction with the Citizens or other Police.


http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-ci-riverside-crime-walk-20171106-story.html#nt=oft01a-7li2

The decoy unit, like NYPD's, will be placed in strategic areas of the city in order to catch robbers attempting to rob unsuspecting victims. I'm certain that the unit will not be acting in an enforcement capacity such as the previous plainclothes units. The new unit's mission is to blend in amongst the proverbial sheep. 

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Announcing that they're going undercover is a brilliant way to give them the element of surprise. 

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9 minutes ago, Ode2Joy said:

Announcing that they're going undercover is a brilliant way to give them the element of surprise. 

Yeah that was not exactly a brilliant move. Or they are playing 3d chess are trying a fake....that they really don't have said squad....but hope just the possibility, will calm things down.

We'll see.

 

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8 minutes ago, Ode2Joy said:

Announcing that they're going undercover is a brilliant way to give them the element of surprise. 

Well think about it for a second. The commissioner has to come up with solutions. He has to tell his boss something. Aside from that, as many interactions I've had with Baltimore's undesirables, I can bet that they couldn't spot a decoy if their lives depended on it. Trust me the element of surprise won't be lost. Back home, you could never tell who was an undercover cop. It could be the person sitting next to you on the subway, the religious bible thumper, or the homeless guy laying on the ground under a blanket. NYPD's undercover squad is really good. Let's hope the BPD can pull this off. It's by far the best news the commissioner has come up with. Even if it wasn't his idea, it's still a step forward in the right direction. 

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Time to bring back 21 Jump Street and put undercover agents in high schools and juvenile gangs.

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12 hours ago, Ode2Joy said:

Announcing that they're going undercover is a brilliant way to give them the element of surprise. 

That would be my response.

 

It's like telling your enemy we will attack on Thursday and then wonder why you got your butt kicked.b

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2 hours ago, Pickle20 said:

Time to bring back 21 Jump Street and put undercover agents in high schools and juvenile gangs.

Actually that is not a bad idea at all.

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38 minutes ago, jonsensback said:

That would be my response.

 

It's like telling your enemy we will attack on Thursday and then wonder why you got your butt kicked.b

This is akin to one of the few VERY FEW things that Trump made statements about that was correct.... that is our goverment/military having this 'thing' about broadcasting plans and offensive actions in the ME and else where

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I'm more concerned that by announcing this, young people suspected or even just accused of being undercover might now come to harm, or people will now be forced to commit some kind of mayhem or assault to prove that they're not undercover.  These young cadets aren't going to be able to just show up and join with people they don't know.

Announcing this probably has as much to do with Davis and others engaging in some CYA to show that they're doing something about the juvenile crime problem that is only getting worse.  It's getting bad press now that it's overflowing into the tourist and gentrified areas. 

Meanwhile, Davis is determined to pursue administrative charges against the other cops in the Freddie Gray case.

Edited by Ode2Joy

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16 minutes ago, Ode2Joy said:

I'm more concerned that by announcing this, young people suspected or even just accused of being undercover might now come to harm, or people will now be forced to commit some kind of mayhem or assault to prove that they're not undercover.  These young cadets aren't going to be able to just show up and join with people they don't know.

Valid points....you must be good at Rubics cubes.

But I don't think getting cadets in is as hard as you make it. Seems in BC there is a constant flux of students in and out. In fact sometime back when the city was complaining about formulas and lack of funds....the Sun pointed out the high turnover and how the education dept was having a difficult keeping their attendance records straight due to the high volume.

Lets see....a quick Google....ahhh.........

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-ci-schools-enrollment-drop-20160129-story.html

I kinda see your point about 'being forced'....however....I think that would really only apply to newbies...and I don't think I am off base when I say that 'good' kids are harassed by the bad anyway...no matter how long they have been in the neighborhood.

Edited by Guido2

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So, with the revolving door court system.  Does anyone think any of these fine young people will actually get any time behind bars?

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AugusteDupin wrote: " The decoy unit.. will be placed in strategic areas of the City..."

That is what they said would happen with the SET unit. Turns out they ended up staking out various fast food locations (to have lunch) and working 9 - 1 (sometimes 9 - 2, if it was a busy day)...

(Cause we all know that criminals are out in force in the afternoon)!!!

((I can't get the computer to let me reprint a prior post))!

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I also question the use of young Officers as 'bait'. The victims so far have been young families and females and SUDDENLY we are to expect the criminals to go after fit young males?

-----------------------------------------------

While we are at it, it has been said that these Officers will blend in. Something I was taught by the local drug dealers was that new Officers who are undercover ALWAYS have a two day old beard. (That is how the dealers could pick out the undercover Officers). So, bottom line, all the Juveniles have to look out for is an out-of-place person who looks like Don Johnson!

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55 minutes ago, Lawman 27 said:

AugusteDupin wrote: " The decoy unit.. will be placed in strategic areas of the City..."

That is what they said would happen with the SET unit. Turns out they ended up staking out various fast food locations (to have lunch) and working 9 - 1 (sometimes 9 - 2, if it was a busy day)...

(Cause we all know that criminals are out in force in the afternoon)!!!

((I can't get the computer to let me reprint a prior post))!

That was clearly under a different administration. Is the SET unit still around? How many years ago was the SET in place? Has the BPD ever had a decoy unit before?

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54 minutes ago, Lawman 27 said:

I also question the use of young Officers as 'bait'. The victims so far have been young families and females and SUDDENLY we are to expect the criminals to go after fit young males?

-----------------------------------------------

While we are at it, it has been said that these Officers will blend in. Something I was taught by the local drug dealers was that new Officers who are undercover ALWAYS have a two day old beard. (That is how the dealers could pick out the undercover Officers). So, bottom line, all the Juveniles have to look out for is an out-of-place person who looks like Don Johnson!

I see you haven't been paying to attention to the vast number of robberies as well as the vast amount of victims (males and females young and old alike) that the city has had since January 1st of this year You're referring to one or a few of the cases that the Sun highlighted. They're not the only robberies/victims that have occurred in the city. Also, what makes you think that the decoy will solely be comprised of "new officers". Don't you think seasoned veteran officers will also play a role in this unit? 

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19 hours ago, Ode2Joy said:

Announcing that they're going undercover is a brilliant way to give them the element of surprise. 

Your stuck thinking like a normal person. These predators are very stupid, crazier than a pillowcase full of raccoons,and you can bet they don't follow any sort of news, and probably don't tune into BAL very often.

Auguste mentions January 1st, but really, just look from mid October. Beyond that stuff, really, these predators have no fear of real penalty for their crimes, because there is no penalty. Even if they try it with an undercover, so what? 

Normal people, when they hear of young teens, tend to think of how they were as teens. These teens are a lot harder, and have done, seen and heard things most people never experience. Stupid, no positive guidance, born to teens themselves in many cases, no real thoughts beyond the next ten minutes, and zero fear of penalty. That is a very volitile situation. 

I had a friend that lived in a sad part of S. Baltimore. He had a 5 year old that I could see being hardened. He knew not to touch discarded needles, On a walk to the 7-11, a prostitute defecating in their ally yelled to us, "wait! I'm done!", and while we'd play the old 8 bit Nintendo, people would occasionally knock on the door asking for a smoke or money. This was in the late 80's, and I'd never imagined such awfulness, but they accepted it as normal. I'm in my mid 20's, freaked out by the horrors a 5 year old thinks is just regular life. 

We lost touch, but I wonder how hard that kid was at 15. 

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AugusteDupin...

I have no idea if SET is still in service. My opinion of them is not something to be discussed in mixed company.

I do know about the robberies of all races, creeds, colors, etc that is going on. (Before I left, I got to see first hand how some of these were 'downgraded' for statistics purposes). The impression I got from the TV is that the Command Staff is just now realizing the problem and making a solution.

TV (I think it was WBFF, but don't quote me) indicated that the team would be younger members, thus my belief that it would be newer Officers.

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AD...
My bad, it was WMAR who reported that "the decoy unit will be made up of young plain clothes Officers newly graduated from the Academy."

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31 minutes ago, Lawman 27 said:

AugusteDupin...

I have no idea if SET is still in service. My opinion of them is not something to be discussed in mixed company.

I do know about the robberies of all races, creeds, colors, etc that is going on. (Before I left, I got to see first hand how some of these were 'downgraded' for statistics purposes). The impression I got from the TV is that the Command Staff is just now realizing the problem and making a solution.

TV (I think it was WBFF, but don't quote me) indicated that the team would be younger members, thus my belief that it would be newer Officers.

Curious Lawman 27, what year did you retire? 

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38 minutes ago, pepper said:

Your stuck thinking like a normal person. These predators are very stupid, crazier than a pillowcase full of raccoons,and you can bet they don't follow any sort of news, and probably don't tune into BAL very often.

Auguste mentions January 1st, but really, just look from mid October. Beyond that stuff, really, these predators have no fear of real penalty for their crimes, because there is no penalty. Even if they try it with an undercover, so what? 

Normal people, when they hear of young teens, tend to think of how they were as teens. These teens are a lot harder, and have done, seen and heard things most people never experience. Stupid, no positive guidance, born to teens themselves in many cases, no real thoughts beyond the next ten minutes, and zero fear of penalty. That is a very volitile situation. 

I had a friend that lived in a sad part of S. Baltimore. He had a 5 year old that I could see being hardened. He knew not to touch discarded needles, On a walk to the 7-11, a prostitute defecating in their ally yelled to us, "wait! I'm done!", and while we'd play the old 8 bit Nintendo, people would occasionally knock on the door asking for a smoke or money. This was in the late 80's, and I'd never imagined such awfulness, but they accepted it as normal. I'm in my mid 20's, freaked out by the horrors a 5 year old thinks is just regular life. 

We lost touch, but I wonder how hard that kid was at 15. 

Pepper I enjoy reading your posts. They are quite sagacious. You clearly have a real-world understanding of things. With that said, only looking at the robberies from mid-October does no justice to the 4000+ victims the city has had. 

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53 minutes ago, AugusteDupin said:

Pepper I enjoy reading your posts. They are quite sagacious. You clearly have a real-world understanding of things. With that said, only looking at the robberies from mid-October does no justice to the 4000+ victims the city has had. 

Thats a nice compliment, but to be honest, I had no idea what you meant until I Googled "sagacious". ( I hope I'm not alone on that, but I wouldn't really care anyway. thanks for the vocabulary update )

I just post what I honestly think, Based on my own experiences, and perceptions, and let the chips fall. 

My point with October relates to the current rash of teen assaults in that area. No disrespect intended towards the countless victims of daily crime.

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1 hour ago, pepper said:

Thats a nice compliment, but to be honest, I had no idea what you meant until I Googled "sagacious". ( I hope I'm not alone on that, but I wouldn't really care anyway. thanks for the vocabulary update )

I just post what I honestly think, Based on my own experiences, and perceptions, and let the chips fall. 

My point with October relates to the current rash of teen assaults in that area. No disrespect intended towards the countless victims of daily crime.

You're very welcome. I'm glad that you at least looked up a new word. Since my first year of college, I made myself learn new words that weren't ordinarily used in order to expand my vernacular. You're not alone in that endeavor. Never limit yourself to learning new things. Thank you for providing lucid and articulate thoughts. I knew what you meant with regard to your point concerning the rash of robberies in October. I just wanted to expound further that since January 1st. 2017, teens have been robbing victims systematically throughout the city. They're like weeds...you pluck a few...and new ones grow in their place. During several chats with my confreres in the SAO, I was shocked to know of the number of robberies that have occurred since then. 

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24 minutes ago, AugusteDupin said:

You're very welcome. I'm glad that you at least looked up a new word. Since my first year of college, I made myself learn new words that weren't ordinarily used in order to expand my vernacular. You're not alone in that endeavor. Never limit yourself to learning new things. Thank you for providing lucid and articulate thoughts. I knew what you meant with regard to your point concerning the rash of robberies in October. I just wanted to expound further that since January 1st. 2017, teens have been robbing victims systematically throughout the city. They're like weeds...you pluck a few...and new ones grow in their place. During several chats with my confreres in the SAO, I was shocked to know of the number of robberies that have occurred since then. 

IMO, the problem is that there is an unending supply of victims and predators, supplied by people that cant support their offspring emotionally or financially. I know a solution, but it's not socially or politically possible. 

How to effect a cultural change? Typically, it's a simple rule. Anything subsidized grows, while anything taxed is suppressed. This reality is screwed up when dysfunction is rewarded, and living right (admittedly as I see it) is taxed. My wife and I had one kid, because we couldn't provide the same quality of life if we added more. in other words, a decision was made based on our ability to provide. 

I realize that this thinking was not something we came up with on our own, but moreso the influence of our parents, people that were in turn influenced by their parents. We're all blank slates as babies, subject to the environment we are born into. 

 

Edited by pepper

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