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Lawman 27

Baltimore police launch plainclothes 'decoy unit'

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16 minutes ago, pepper said:

IMO, the problem is that there is an unending supply of victims and predators, supplied by people that cant support their offspring emotionally or financially. I know a solution, but it's not socially or politically possible. 

How to effect a cultural change? Typically, it's a simple rule. Anything subsidized grows, while anything taxed is suppressed. This reality is screwed up when dysfunction is rewarded, and living right (admittedly as I see it) is taxed. My wife and I had one kid, because we couldn't provide the same quality of life if we added more. in other words, a decision was made based on our ability to provide. 

I realize that this thinking was not something we came up with on our own, but moreso the influence of our parents, people that were in turn influenced by their parents. We're all blank slates as babies, subject to the environment we are born into. 

 

And yet again you paint a very intuitive and descriptive picture. Although you stated you know of a solution but feel it will not be socially or politically possible, you now have piqued my interest. What would your solution to this problem be?

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Can someone explain what Police Commissioner Kevin Davis has to do to get fired? Obviously incompetence, increased crime and poor community relations isn’t enough.  There’s not even talk of replacing him.  How many compromising pictures of Pugh and council members does he have?

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21 hours ago, AugusteDupin said:

And yet again you paint a very intuitive and descriptive picture. Although you stated you know of a solution but feel it will not be socially or politically possible, you now have piqued my interest. What would your solution to this problem be?

Yikes. I will likely be attacked, but folks need to remember, I said "socially and politically impossible". My solution wouldn't, and shouldn't ever be applied, but I can't think of any other.

Funny, I'm stuck here trying to think of a way to say this that doesn't come off as instantly offensive. 

As I see it, the only way to actually deal with a lot of societal ills, is to stem the flow of children born to people that are unable to emotionally support them in a way that fosters kids that have not only self respect, but respect for others. If we stopped subsidizing this, it would put a dent in it, but we don't want to be like India, and have a bunch of street urchins. We can't sterilize people to prevent it, and even if we did, it'd be at least 20 years till we got a balance.  Like I said, not politically or socially doable either way. 

The change has to be culturally, from within the communities currently dealing with 70% plus illegitimacy rates. I don't see that happening without some sort of outside force that makes people not get pregnant without much thought. Baby Momma has become a cultural reality. Non existent dads as well.  

How can we reach young kids, and convince them to live exactly the opposite of the only lifestyle they know? The only lifestyle their parents, and grandparents know?

I'm speaking very clinically, and I understand it sounds harsh. 

 

So yea, I guess I don't really have a solution.

 

Edited by pepper

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10 hours ago, pepper said:

Yikes. I will likely be attacked, but folks need to remember, I said "socially and politically impossible". My solution wouldn't, and shouldn't ever be applied, but I can't think of any other.

Funny, I'm stuck here trying to think of a way to say this that doesn't come off as instantly offensive. 

As I see it, the only way to actually deal with a lot of societal ills, is to stem the flow of children born to people that are unable to emotionally support them in a way that fosters kids that have not only self respect, but respect for others. If we stopped subsidizing this, it would put a dent in it, but we don't want to be like India, and have a bunch of street urchins. We can't sterilize people to prevent it, and even if we did, it'd be at least 20 years till we got a balance.  Like I said, not politically or socially doable either way. 

The change has to be culturally, from within the communities currently dealing with 70% plus illegitimacy rates. I don't see that happening without some sort of outside force that makes people not get pregnant without much thought. Baby Momma has become a cultural reality. Non existent dads as well.  

How can we reach young kids, and convince them to live exactly the opposite of the only lifestyle they know? The only lifestyle their parents, and grandparents know?

I'm speaking very clinically, and I understand it sounds harsh. 

 

So yea, I guess I don't really have a solution.

 

It's waaay to late for any kind of social solution. There are now and will always be democrat strongholds which right now are the cities, and gradually sprawling to surrounding counties. They will always be heavy drug areas and violent crime will be much higher than the burbs or rural areas. Right now your best bet is to move to a rural/suburban area at leat 10-15 miles from ground zero. You can move to states with lower income tax as well, which also allow conceal carry, at least the ones that surround Maryland. The combat zones are not likely to improve anytime soon, if ever, as they are strong and growing democrat voting blocks. As long as people depend on government to provide for them, they are trapped into voting for them, even if they don't want to. Most of the urban areas are kind of socially conservative, at least the older citizens, but the older they get, the more fiscally dependent on the gov't.they become. I have several relatives in the city that are in that catch 22. I'm prolly gonna move to Pa., so I can "cling to my bible and gun"......lol:P

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On 11/8/2017 at 0:12 PM, overtaxed said:

So, with the revolving door court system.  Does anyone think any of these fine young people will actually get any time behind bars?

No, they will say "it isn't fair" that they were caught by undercover police.

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14 hours ago, Balmerboh said:

Can someone explain what Police Commissioner Kevin Davis has to do to get fired? Obviously incompetence, increased crime and poor community relations isn’t enough.  There’s not even talk of replacing him.  How many compromising pictures of Pugh and council members does he have?

Reality alert; The commissioner servers at the pleasure of the Mayor and by default the city council and the city itself.

Nor does he set policy/law/decrees. He just implements the aforementioned requests. to the best of his ability... even with both hands tied behind his back, a understaffed PD and a 'hate all pigs' citizenry.

To be candid boh.....I am surprised he hasn't walked on his own... already....before his career is totally destroyed by the abortion known as the city of Baltimore.

Edited by Guido2

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15 hours ago, pepper said:

Yikes. I will likely be attacked, but folks need to remember, I said "socially and politically impossible". My solution wouldn't, and shouldn't ever be applied, but I can't think of any other.

Funny, I'm stuck here trying to think of a way to say this that doesn't come off as instantly offensive. 

As I see it, the only way to actually deal with a lot of societal ills, is to stem the flow of children born to people that are unable to emotionally support them in a way that fosters kids that have not only self respect, but respect for others. If we stopped subsidizing this, it would put a dent in it, but we don't want to be like India, and have a bunch of street urchins. We can't sterilize people to prevent it, and even if we did, it'd be at least 20 years till we got a balance.  Like I said, not politically or socially doable either way. 

The change has to be culturally, from within the communities currently dealing with 70% plus illegitimacy rates. I don't see that happening without some sort of outside force that makes people not get pregnant without much thought. Baby Momma has become a cultural reality. Non existent dads as well.  

How can we reach young kids, and convince them to live exactly the opposite of the only lifestyle they know? The only lifestyle their parents, and grandparents know?

I'm speaking very clinically, and I understand it sounds harsh. 

 

So yea, I guess I don't really have a solution.

 

On the bolded; .......don't even bother....I tried and gave up. You say anything remotely negative and the crows will be on you like road kill.

 

Kudo to you pepper.....one of the few on these forums that admitted that there is a solution....but realizes that in this given environment is DOA..

It seems that in BC at least the phrase 'be fruitful and multiply' .... as long as someone else is minding the fruit and paying for it ....was taken to heart.

When I first moved here to Woodlawn 40 years ago.... I was shocked ....when my neighbors announced their unwed 16 year old daughter was pregnant and they were having a celebration. Celebration?  I asked, so when is she getting married? Married  MARRIED? It was like I was speaking martian.:huh:

Guess being old school....from a small town in Jersey....you got married....or the girl went on an extended vacation with an Aunt.

Talk about culture shock.

I fully understand that 'accidents' happen and can accept that....but 4,6,8...'accidents'....which we the tax payers get stuck with.....ahhh no.

Edited by Guido2

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On 11/10/2017 at 11:50 AM, Guido2 said:

On the bolded; .......don't even bother....I tried and gave up. You say anything remotely negative and the crows will be on you like road kill.

 

Kudo to you pepper.....one of the few on these forums that admitted that there is a solution....but realizes that in this given environment is DOA..

It seems that in BC at least the phrase 'be fruitful and multiply' .... as long as someone else is minding the fruit and paying for it ....was taken to heart.

When I first moved here to Woodlawn 40 years ago.... I was shocked ....when my neighbors announced their unwed 16 year old daughter was pregnant and they were having a celebration. Celebration?  I asked, so when is she getting married? Married  MARRIED? It was like I was speaking martian.:huh:

Guess being old school....from a small town in Jersey....you got married....or the girl went on an extended vacation with an Aunt.

Talk about culture shock.

I fully understand that 'accidents' happen and can accept that....but 4,6,8...'accidents'....which we the tax payers get stuck with.....ahhh no.

Hi Guido

Just to be clear, I'm opposed to any type of sterilization (which barring some sort of incredible cultural shift, thats what I'm talking about) in ANY environment, current or future.

I really haven't "admitted" theres a solution, because up front I say it can't work. 

I believe, that the cause of a ton of societal ills, is illegitimacy. Institutional racism, coupled with maybe well intended but long term damaging government social engineering has made a monster that now feeds on itself. Baltimores demographics demand that those affected are mostly black, but IMO, Human Nature does not understand skin pigment. As blank slates it's the environment and experiences.

My scenario, is that if the flow was stemmed, there might be a way to change the mindset and culture in the interim. It's an abstract unrealistic idea. 

The lead up and the post reality of any effort by government to sterilize any part of the population would be horrific. 

The trick is how do you make stuff like delayed gratification (I'm still struggling with that) marriage, education, self respect and respect for others seem like worthy ideas for people that might not see those things in action....

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6 minutes ago, pepper said:

Hi Guido

Just to be clear, I'm opposed to any type of sterilization (which barring some sort of incredible cultural shift, thats what I'm talking about) in ANY environment, current or future.

I really haven't "admitted" theres a solution, because up front I say it can't work. 

I believe, that the cause of a ton of societal ills, is illegitimacy. Institutional racism, coupled with maybe well intended but long term damaging government social engineering has made a monster that now feeds on itself. Baltimores demographics demand that those affected are mostly black, but IMO, Human Nature does not understand skin pigment. As blank slates it's the environment and experiences.

My scenario, is that if the flow was stemmed, there might be a way to change the mindset and culture in the interim. It's an abstract unrealistic idea. 

The lead up and the post reality of any effort by government to sterilize any part of the population would be horrific. 

The trick is how do you make stuff like delayed gratification (I'm still struggling with that) marriage, education, self respect and respect for others seem like worthy ideas for people that might not see those things in action....

Agree with every thing you say..... not just the bolded. Forced sterilization is a 3rd rail for sure....and rightly so.

However, as we found with Pavlov's dog...people can be conditioned to act certain ways and expect certain things. This is exemplified...... by the feel good social engineering of ....'that's ok have another kid....don't worry we got your back'.

So how does one un-do this....apply Pavlov's dog in reverse. Don't cut off people already with a brood...that is not fair an just to the kids. However, start a program that advertises...promotes birth control in two ways. First offer a 'reward' ....if you don't get pregnant we will pay you a bonus of some sort on you welfare check every 9 months..... Second....make it known you can have one accident or maybe two...but after that ...YOU FEED THEM!!

Attrition and dollars will balance things for those 'on the edge' so to speak....for some.....it won't matter....the brain stems with gentiles likely could careless about the child.

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7 hours ago, pepper said:

Hi Guido

Just to be clear, I'm opposed to any type of sterilization (which barring some sort of incredible cultural shift, thats what I'm talking about) in ANY environment, current or future.

I really haven't "admitted" theres a solution, because up front I say it can't work. 

I believe, that the cause of a ton of societal ills, is illegitimacy. Institutional racism, coupled with maybe well intended but long term damaging government social engineering has made a monster that now feeds on itself. Baltimores demographics demand that those affected are mostly black, but IMO, Human Nature does not understand skin pigment. As blank slates it's the environment and experiences.

My scenario, is that if the flow was stemmed, there might be a way to change the mindset and culture in the interim. It's an abstract unrealistic idea. 

The lead up and the post reality of any effort by government to sterilize any part of the population would be horrific. 

The trick is how do you make stuff like delayed gratification (I'm still struggling with that) marriage, education, self respect and respect for others seem like worthy ideas for people that might not see those things in action....

Hi Pep. The only real solution is mandatory sentences with no parole removing sentencing discretion from judges. It won't eliminate it completely, but if someone knows they're going to get 5 years(or whatever) for robbery and they're going to actually do 5 years, IMO it'll have an effect. 

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22 hours ago, bmore_ken said:

Hi Pep. The only real solution is mandatory sentences with no parole removing sentencing discretion from judges. It won't eliminate it completely, but if someone knows they're going to get 5 years(or whatever) for robbery and they're going to actually do 5 years, IMO it'll have an effect. 

Totally agree. Now will it happen....not likely.

If implemented it will work two ways.....fewer trigger pulllers and fewer sperm donors. :lol:

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Police Chief is just trying to hold on to his job.   It's not going to happen, he's one incident away from dismissal, he'll do what Pugh tells him to do with a smile on his face. Baltimore needs another black Chief.

Edited by Boobie

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26 minutes ago, Boobie said:

Police Chief is just trying to hold on to his job.   It's not going to happen, he's one incident away from dismissal, he'll do what Pugh tells him to do with a smile on his face. Baltimore needs another black Chief.

Why?

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deleted by smokey

Edited by Smokey 1

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40 minutes ago, Boobie said:

Police Chief is just trying to hold on to his job.   It's not going to happen, he's one incident away from dismissal, he'll do what Pugh tells him to do with a smile on his face. Baltimore needs another black Chief.

 

A black mayor, a black city council president, a black state's attorney, a black CEO of Public Schools, a black director of City Transportation, a black sheriff, a black chief of the Fire Department, a black labor commissioner, and a host of other black city leaders cant hold the city down. Do you really think a black police commissioner is going to change anything?

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20 hours ago, Boobie said:

Police Chief is just trying to hold on to his job.   It's not going to happen, he's one incident away from dismissal, he'll do what Pugh tells him to do with a smile on his face. :rolleyes:

Ohhhh yes.... the previous one worked out ssssooooooooooooo well.

Hopefully you were being sarcastic.

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20 hours ago, bmore_ken said:

Why?

Good question.

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19 hours ago, AugusteDupin said:

A black mayor, a black city council president, a black state's attorney, a black CEO of Public Schools, a black director of City Transportation, a black sheriff, a black chief of the Fire Department, a black labor commissioner, and a host of other black city leaders cant hold the city down. Do you really think a black police commissioner is going to change anything?

Aug. Davis will keep his job.....they need the token white guy around to blame for everything.

Didn't you get the memo?:D

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7 hours ago, Guido2 said:

Aug. Davis will keep his job.....they need the token white guy around to blame for everything.

Didn't you get the memo?:D

Nah, I doubt he'll be around long, especially after tonight. 

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1 hour ago, AugusteDupin said:

Nah, I doubt he'll be around long, especially after tonight. 

I was sort of kidding.

Actually I am surprised he hadn't resigned on his own a long time ago. He is definitely in a no win position....gooberment will throw him under the bus in a heartbeat, NAACP and SJWs crying, courts not doing jack then the consent decree a citizenry pretty much wanting to get rid of cops...etc.

No one needs that kind of poop....especially poop that for the most part was never his fault and has no control over.

Peoplel forget that as Commissioner he is not his own man....he serves at the pleasure (and whims) of the Mayor and by default the gooberment of BC which is influenced by the aforementioned.

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On 11/12/2017 at 6:03 PM, bmore_ken said:

Hi Pep. The only real solution is mandatory sentences with no parole removing sentencing discretion from judges. It won't eliminate it completely, but if someone knows they're going to get 5 years(or whatever) for robbery and they're going to actually do 5 years, IMO it'll have an effect. 

I agree. Some get upset believing theres too many young men in already an overcrowded system. The sad truth is that there isn't anywhere near enough guys in the system. The recent arrest of the young teen that had multiple felony arrests, but was on the streets is probably not an anomaly. It's probably common for 10 to 15 year old offenders to have repeat arrests and convictions of felony level crime, let lose on their community. And the reality is that each arrest represents a small fraction of crimes committed. 

I'd bet your next paycheck that theres a teen out there right now with 50+ arrests. Baltimores system for defining a juvenile uses way outdated criteria and zero flexible common sense.  Using the chronological age as the biggest determinate isn't at all realistic in 2017, for violent offenders. A 13 year old with multiple arrests doesn't earn the gosh golly response the system currently gives, just because we played with matchbox cars at 13.  If you carjack, assault, or commit any felony with a gun, you should not be back on the streets on a few days or hours. Your age in years should be irrelevant.

I realize that treating teens as general population brings it's own problems. 

It goes back to the root cause. Our hardest hit communities will be screwed after the last of the old school grandmoms and aunts die off.  Generations of kids born to dysfunctional teens. It's a colossal waste, and I hope in 500 years we're roasted as barbarians.

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41 minutes ago, pepper said:

I agree. Some get upset believing theres too many young men in already an overcrowded system. The sad truth is that there isn't anywhere near enough guys in the system. The recent arrest of the young teen that had multiple felony arrests, but was on the streets is probably not an anomaly. It's probably common for 10 to 15 year old offenders to have repeat arrests and convictions of felony level crime, let lose on their community. And the reality is that each arrest represents a small fraction of crimes committed. 

I'd bet your next paycheck that theres a teen out there right now with 50+ arrests. Baltimores system for defining a juvenile uses way outdated criteria and zero flexible common sense.  Using the chronological age as the biggest determinate isn't at all realistic in 2017, for violent offenders. A 13 year old with multiple arrests doesn't earn the gosh golly response the system currently gives, just because we played with matchbox cars at 13.  If you carjack, assault, or commit any felony with a gun, you should not be back on the streets on a few days or hours. Your age in years should be irrelevant.

I realize that treating teens as general population brings it's own problems. 

It goes back to the root cause. Our hardest hit communities will be screwed after the last of the old school grandmoms and aunts die off.  Generations of kids born to dysfunctional teens. It's a colossal waste, and I hope in 500 years we're roasted as barbarians.

Let me hit a couple of your points Pep. Overcrowding? Build more prisons. There are too many bad people on the streets that shouldn't be. My taxes built schools and infrastructure in Iraq. My taxes are paying for strategically obsolete military bases in Europe. My taxes are paying to prop up Israel.Take my money out of those and put them in more prisons to keep these monsters away from society, 

Juvenile definition? Bump that. Build a juvenile prison. You're 14 and convicted of robbery? You go to Juvenile prison for 5 years. Eazy Peazy. Oh and no sealing juvenile records. Your conviction at age 14 or 15 stays with you when you turn 18.

Lock up enough of the bad teens and the other potential bad teens may get the message. The problem is to get any of that done you need pols who aren't worried about their next election as much as they worry about the communities they serve. Not going to happen in my lifetime. 

Edited by bmore_ken

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3 hours ago, bmore_ken said:

Let me hit a couple of your points Pep. Overcrowding? Build more prisons. There are too many bad people on the streets that shouldn't be. My taxes built schools and infrastructure in Iraq. My taxes are paying for strategically obsolete military bases in Europe. My taxes are paying to prop up Israel.Take my money out of those and put them in more prisons to keep these monsters away from society, 

Juvenile definition? Bump that. Build a juvenile prison. You're 14 and convicted of robbery? You go to Juvenile prison for 5 years. Eazy Peazy. Oh and no sealing juvenile records. Your conviction at age 14 or 15 stays with you when you turn 18.

Lock up enough of the bad teens and the other potential bad teens may get the message. The problem is to get any of that done you need pols who aren't worried about their next election as much as they worry about the communities they serve. Not going to happen in my lifetime. 

Great old ideas.....many like myself have been saying that for some time now. I pass the baton.

A reminder.....there are plenty of 'empty' prisions all over this nation...many for lack of occupants. Maybe MD can job them out.

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On ‎11‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 7:14 PM, AugusteDupin said:

Curious Lawman 27, what year did you retire? 

I left about the turn of the decade.

If you are wondering how I keep abreast of the disasters within the BPD, I have a number of friends who are just waiting for retirement to get out. Additionally, I can see the news reports about how specialized units tend to go rouge. (I am surprised that anyone is surprised when a team goes rouge, because the department does everything it can to set the teams up to fail....I don't mean by setting them up, I mean that the BPD bends over backwards to worship these teams and sooner than later, it goes to the heads of these younger Officers) 

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