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Roy Moore's alleged pursuit of a young girl is the symptom of a larger problem in evangelical circles

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Roy Moore's alleged pursuit of a young girl is the symptom of a larger problem in evangelical circles

We need to talk about the segment of American culture that probably doesn’t think the allegations against Republican Senate candidate Roy Moore are particularly damning, the segment that will blanch at only two accusations in the Washington Post expose: He pursued a 14-year-old-girl without first getting her parents’ permission, and he initiated sexual contact outside of marriage. That segment is evangelicalism. In that world, which Moore travels in and I grew up in, 14-year-old girls courting adult men isn’t uncommon.

I use the phrase “14-year-old girls courting adult men,” rather than “adult men courting 14-year-old girls,” for a reason: Evangelicals routinely frame these relationships in those terms. That’s how I was introduced to these relationships as a home-schooled teenager in the 1990s, and it’s the language that my friends and I would use to discuss girls we knew who were in parent-sanctioned relationships with older men.

One popular courtship story that was told and retold in home-school circles during the 1990s was that of Matthew and Maranatha Chapman, who turned their history into a successful career promoting young marriage. Most audiences, however, didn’t realize just how young the Chapmans had in mind until the site Homeschoolers Anonymous and the blogger Libby Anne revealed that Matthew was 27 and Maranatha was 15 when they married. Libby Anne also drew mainstream attention to Matthew Chapman’s writings, in which he argued that parents should consider marriage for their daughters in their “middle-teens.” At that point the Chapmans stopped receiving quite so many speaking invitations.

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I have known people that believe in this garbage. And now it seems there are a lot that think it's OK for Moore to date underage girls - just as long as he gets permission.  To me it's just sick.

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Seems to be a large problem in many circles considering the accolades Hollywood and the European acting community still give Roman Polanski and the predatory practices by a growing list of actors upon young male actors that is just surfacing. 

And it isn't just evangelical Christian churches either.  The RCC has had more than a few child-related sex scandals and cover-ups too.    

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12 minutes ago, Ode2Joy said:

Seems to be a large problem in many circles considering the accolades Hollywood and the European acting community still give Roman Polanski and the predatory practices by a growing list of actors upon young male actors that is just surfacing. 

And it isn't just evangelical Christian churches either.  The RCC has had more than a few child-related sex scandals and cover-ups too.    

It definitely is not just the Evangelicals. But I have seen what was described in the article. It doesn't matter what individuals or groups do it, it is still sickening. These older men prey on the innocent and in some cases this abuse is backed by the institutions. If the child complains, they often are considered to be going against the church/Bible and are often cast as sinners. Meanwhile, the older men go preying on other children.

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22 hours ago, Ode2Joy said:

Seems to be a large problem in many circles considering the accolades Hollywood and the European acting community still give Roman Polanski and the predatory practices by a growing list of actors upon young male actors that is just surfacing. 

And it isn't just evangelical Christian churches either.  The RCC has had more than a few child-related sex scandals and cover-ups too.    

It's not just churches period.

 

There is a huge problem with adult males going after minor females in the inner city.

 

They dance around it, but there have been commercials and bill boards denouncing the practice.

Edited by jonsensback

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2 minutes ago, jonsensback said:

It's not just churches period.

 

There is a huge problem with all adult males going after minor females in the inner city.

 

They dance around it, but there have been commercials and bill boards denouncing the practice.

Here is rural NC it it prevalent as well. Children cannot protect themselves. The adults in society have an obligation to protect them. However, there are some adults who prey on the vulnerable. And when families "give permission" those protections are non-existent.

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2 minutes ago, ncbirdfan said:

Here is rural NC it it prevalent as well. Children cannot protect themselves. The adults in society have an obligation to protect them. However, there are some adults who prey on the vulnerable. And when families "give permission" those protections are non-existent.

 

Predators know how to smell out the weak and vulnerable regardless to families "giving permission". 

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6 minutes ago, jonsensback said:

 

Predators know how to smell out the weak and vulnerable regardless to families "giving permission". 

You are correct; but families giving permission make it a whole lot easier - both for letting it happen and, later, to sweep it under the carpet.

Edited by ncbirdfan

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13 minutes ago, ncbirdfan said:

You are correct; but families giving permission make it a whole lot easier - both for letting it happen and, later, to sweep it under the carpet.

That's true but much rarer than the pukes going after a child who is weak and vulnerable.

 

They need to be protected because no one else gives a damn. 

 

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1 hour ago, jonsensback said:

It's not just churches period.

 

There is a huge problem with all adult males going after minor females in the inner city.

 

They dance around it, but there have been commercials and bill boards denouncing the practice.

I remember those "Pick on someone your own age" ads they used to run.

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It's rotten people, who want what they want, and then construct elaborate justifications for it. Religion is helpful to the degree that it replaces reason with dogma, and because it advertises itself as a source of morals - so it people think a religion condones something, it must therefore be moral. But it's just a tool, in this context. The real problem is the rotten, black minds of the people who prey in this fashion, and the fact that they are not sufficiently discouraged.

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3 hours ago, Evil Yoda said:

It's rotten people, who want what they want, and then construct elaborate justifications for it. Religion is helpful to the degree that it replaces reason with dogma, and because it advertises itself as a source of morals - so it people think a religion condones something, it must therefore be moral. But it's just a tool, in this context. The real problem is the rotten, black minds of the people who prey in this fashion, and the fact that they are not sufficiently discouraged.

Some church leaders use religion to gain control of people and make them do things that are far from biblical; thankfully most are not like that. Still, there are enough that are to cause concern. We certainly know about how people drank the kool-aid with Jim Jones. Then there are people like Warren Jeffs who used his "religion" to pick several young girls at will to "marry."

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15 hours ago, Ode2Joy said:

Seems to be a large problem in many circles considering the accolades Hollywood and the European acting community still give Roman Polanski and the predatory practices by a growing list of actors upon young male actors that is just surfacing. 

And it isn't just evangelical Christian churches either.  The RCC has had more than a few child-related sex scandals and cover-ups too.    

The difference here is that with evangelicals, the system sanctions it.

While the RCC covered up their scandals, they never endorsed them.

Edited by hst2

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“Look, you wait ‘til they get to be 20 years old the only picking that’s going to take place is your pocket. You got to marry these girls when they are about 15 or 16. They’ll pick your ducks.”

Republican leadership figure.

Keep them woman compliant.

Edited by hst2

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9 hours ago, jtowne-swim said:

I find it odd they stand by him. The Bible would call for his hand to be cut off!

"Religious" types can always manipulate scripture into whatever they want it to say.

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Marry girls when they're '15 or 16,' said 'Duck Dynasty' star Phil Robertson

"Duck Dynasty" star Phil Robertson is ruffling feathers again, this time for comments he made years ago about how girls should marry when they're still teenagers.
"They got to where they're getting hard to find, mainly because these boys are waiting 'til they get to be about 20 years old before they marry 'em," Robertson says in a video clip that resurfaced Monday. "Look, you wait 'til they get to be 20 years old, the only picking that's going to take place is your pocket. You got to marry these girls when they are about 15 or 16. They'll pick your ducks."
In the video, Robertson is recounting an anecdote at a speaking engagement. He describes the story as "river rat counseling" he was giving to a "boy" of unknown age and -- referring specifically to marrying teenage girls -- also advises the crowd to "check with Mom and Dad about that, of course." Robertson is four years older than his wife, Kay, whom he married when she was 16 years old, according to A&E's website.

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This isn't a L/R thing. This is about the darkest side of a patriarchal society using dogma for their own twisted fantasies.

You'd be taken a lot more seriously if you could appreciate this simple fact.

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5 hours ago, hst2 said:

The difference here is that with evangelicals, the system sanctions it.

While the RCC covered up their scandals, they never endorsed them.

They didn't officially endorse it, but they tried to cover it up, moved offenders around, and protected them.  That's already cost them well over a billion bucks in this country alone.  Sex abuse settlements and bankruptcies in Catholic sex abuse cases so far

 

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4 minutes ago, EnochRoot said:

This isn't a L/R thing. This is about the darkest side of a patriarchal society using dogma for their own twisted fantasies.

You'd be taken a lot more seriously if you could appreciate this simple fact.

I think you're right.  It's not a L/R thing or limited to evangelicals.

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It gets consumed as L v R because it's easier that way. The scary truth is it's a question of what we're willing to tolerate from those who shape our faith-based beliefs. 

Edited by EnochRoot

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18 minutes ago, Ode2Joy said:

They didn't officially endorse it, but they tried to cover it up, moved offenders around, and protected them.  That's already cost them well over a billion bucks in this country alone.  Sex abuse settlements and bankruptcies in Catholic sex abuse cases so far

 

True, but there is a difference between trying to cover it up and maintaining that its good.

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20 hours ago, Ode2Joy said:

I remember those "Pick on someone your own age" ads they used to run.

I wonder why they still don't run the ads?

 

Is the problem with inner city adult males going minor females not a problem anymore, or did they pull those ads because it hurt someones feelings? 

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54 minutes ago, jonsensback said:

I wonder why they still don't run the ads?

 

Is the problem with inner city adult males going minor females not a problem anymore, or did they pull those ads because it hurt someones feelings? 

Sadly, to some of the evangelical community and leadership, its not a problem. Its a solution.

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2 hours ago, jonsensback said:

I wonder why they still don't run the ads?

 

Is the problem with inner city adult males going minor females not a problem anymore, or did they pull those ads because it hurt someones feelings? 

It must no longer be a problem.   

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