Guido2

Win 10 Fall Creators (1709) PROBLEMS u2?

21 posts in this topic

As I thought would happen as it always does with Microsoft updates....they create more problems than they fix. Or maybe it is just my luck.

After 35plus years of dealing with MS and Windows I learned a long time ago NEVER to apply fixes/updates till several weeks have passed and MS sorts out the boo boos in the updates. Anyway I did and installed the Fall Creators (ver 1709)....and everyday there seems to be another problem I am using a Dell Inspiron 11 3000 series machine...with which I have had few issues (mostly app issues). Which is expected.

Below is a short list of problems I have hit and was wondering if others are suffering the MS Thursday blues:

  • While the system is still up I will close the lid of the laptop (so the cats don't tromp on it) when I open it to begin work again...the system crashes gives me a sorry we are gathering information: and a stopcode of memory management
  • My touchpad (which I never use and had turned off) suddenly has a mind of its own and turns it self on and off at will....a real pain while typing text and your finger hits it. I wish the 'nipple' mouse was still around.
  • in conjunction with my touchpad....DELL keeps annoying me with...a notice of 'Update of driver' install or remind later. Even though I have installed it (supposedly 3 or 4 times now). I check the web and the pad profile and the driver is up to date.
  • Lastly, when I start the system up or close the lid....the system comes back and complains about my battery charger The ac adapter type cannot be dertermined....plug in....or make sure it is a Dell 45w or higher. The charger is connected properly...it is the origional that came with the system and it is rated at 65w.

I have been all over the web and down many rat holes. Most of the 'solutions' well would take hours and might not work. I even considered uninstalling what was 'updated' but according to the list everything that  was applied was focused on Security...nothing to do with these issues.

So I was wondering ....if any of you have experience these and other issues...and if you found any solutions. As I said MS and Dell real corp support stinks and seems now to defer to 'forums' which is hit or miss at best.

I am considering format and reinstall of with XP or some Linux product like Ubutu but their touch screen support is spotty at best. Kind of sad when 'freeware' products such as Firefox and Thunderbird and Linux based OSes are better than what  you pay for.

So thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any ideas you may have an letting me RANT.. Guido

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Sorry, All my machines run W7Pro. I'm not running W10 and won't ever. Have W10 on an Office PC at work and it drives me Nuts. The IT guy said "You'll get used to it!" Now I think about 2yrs later, I haven't.

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On 11/14/2017 at 0:44 PM, Bartman said:

Sorry, All my machines run W7Pro. I'm not running W10 and won't ever. Have W10 on an Office PC at work and it drives me Nuts. The IT guy said "You'll get used to it!" Now I think about 2yrs later, I haven't.

I have never had a problem with Win10. Never say never. Win7 will eventually stop working. I personally don't see what there is to drive you nuts between the 7 and 10 interfaces except learning to right click to get to control panel. That issue goes away one week after you stop using 7.  They are conceptually similar with 10 having a bit more animation.

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On 11/14/2017 at 0:44 PM, Bartman said:

Sorry, All my machines run W7Pro. I'm not running W10 and won't ever. Have W10 on an Office PC at work and it drives me Nuts. The IT guy said "You'll get used to it!" Now I think about 2yrs later, I haven't.

Thanks for posting back, Well I am slowly unraveling things but it is a PIA. Stay with Win 7 as long as you can. My backup laptop and a couple of my 'real' machines either have or some forms of Linux.

As you know I spent over 35 years in IT....you name it... I used it....going all the way back to DOS on my TRS-80 Mod1 (Trash80 to some) I though VISTA was bad...the Apple wanna be. That was better IMO. At least if you had an issue you could talk to a REAL support person...AND....you actually got paper manuals...not what you have now....user forums 'monitored' by MS ahhhhhh pros....to me it is only one step above a bunch of monkees with typewritters trying to recreate the Works of William Shakespeare at random. :mad:

I don't know who's drug enhacnced brain came up with where, why and how various 'tools' are placed and how they interconnect. Simple thing like turning off the touchpad (one place, one click) now takes several places and steps.

Further and this really bugs me. With Win 7 you got the OS and a handful of basic tools like 'Mail' and it was free. Well in Win 10 you a WHOLE slew of tools...(with no instructions or insight)....and no idea if they are free, trial or pay.....till you have commited and hour setting it up. OneDrive and Office are prime examples. I love OneNote...won't use it....you have to pay not only to buy the thing (used to be free) but you also MUST have a OneDrive subscription to the tune of 20 plus bucks a month....do the math.... to use one product you are looking at over 250 a year...EVERY year. Same goes if you want to upgrade from the installed version of Win 10 (home version) to Pro or above. Add enough products one year usage could cost you MORE than the price of a high end gaming system.

I use Firefox and Thunderbird and OpenOffice and it works fine....it is free....AND MOST IMPORTANTLY....since it is shareware....there are people you can ask question that are happy to help AND ACTUALLY HAVE AN ANSWER.

I am debating STRONGLY about trashing this crap called Win 10 and loading some LINUX based system such as Ubutu or Fedora...which is free....I used them all the time on my other 'main frame' systems and they are great....only thing holding me back is that the touchscreen functionality for my laptop seems iffy. I keep meaning to load a Virtual Machine on my laptop and loading LINUX in that. But like anything there is always something else to do.

Bottom line advice for you....AT ALL COSTS....stay with Win7....if you don''t have a full blown licensed copy of (w/ key) of it ....GET IT....i ncase your old machine blows up and you have to replace it. You can go to Ebay/Amazon and get MS certified copies...dirt cheap.

For a time you could get Win 7 on even new systems pre-loaded or with a CD that came with it....no more....Win10 or nothing....some offer that you can go to their web site to down load a copy of Win 7....good luck on that.

Oh last thing....if  you ever get a new system....especially if it is cheap....BE CAREFUL.....make sure it has a CD/DVD drive....many don't have one to cut cost....since.'everyone does things off the net'  or via WiFi. :rolleyes:

Sorry I ranted and rambled again. Hopefully some things I said will be useful to you.

Guido

 

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4 minutes ago, Rael said:

I have never had a problem with Win10. Never say never. Win7 will eventually stop working. I personally don't see what there is to drive you nuts between the 7 and 10 interfaces except learning to right click to get to control panel. That issue goes away one week after you stop using 7.  They are conceptually similar with 10 having a bit more animation.

Well Rael you are either incredibly lucky or gifted. :D

While I agree for a user Win 7 and 10 are similar. But to someone trying to administer them....night and day.

Question 1- Is Win 10 on your home machine that you use day in and day out. Or is your experience just at work?

Question 2-If you have Win 10 at home.....have you allowed MS to force feed the 'updates' packages and patch your OS?

Not trying to prove anything ....just curious....cause I communicate with some very savvy ITers still and they all have horror stories. Especially after Updates. Thx

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1 minute ago, Guido2 said:

Well Rael you are either incredibly lucky or gifted. :D

While I agree for a user Win 7 and 10 are similar. But to someone trying to administer them....night and day.

Question 1- Is Win 10 on your home machine that you use day in and day out. Or is your experience just at work?

Question 2-If you have Win 10 at home.....have you allowed MS to force feed the 'updates' packages and patch your OS?

Not trying to prove anything ....just curious....cause I communicate with some very savvy ITers still and they all have horror stories. Especially after Updates. Thx

My office machine is my home machine. Of course, my "luck" may have something to do with my MS preferred platform. I use the highest end Surface Book as my work and home machine, so I would assume Microsoft makes sure it works on their platforms.

I get the updates as they are released. Got one last night in fact. 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Rael said:

My office machine is my home machine. Of course, my "luck" may have something to do with my MS preferred platform. I use the highest end Surface Book as my work and home machine, so I would assume Microsoft makes sure it works on their platforms.

I get the updates as they are released. Got one last night in fact. 

 

 

Aaaahhhhhaa. You answered the 1M dollar question.

Thinking back at all the treads and such I have viewed, I don't remember ONE time that a Surface was in the mix of trying to fix something. Makes perfect sense.....it is a MS designed system, which is optimized to match perfectly the ins and outs of Win 10 and throw in the fact that MS is going to be damn sure THEIR system worked just fine..... the others 'meh' we'll get to it.

The more I think about it.....when Apple was really into computers....you NEVER heard people complaining about it...NEVER....hardly anyone made 'clone' Apples. Makes perfect sense. Talk about a V-8 moment. SSShhhhesssh.

So in a way you are the exception that proves the rule/point.

Another question or two or three if don't mind.

  1. Is your home computer one that is loaned to you by your company?
  2. I mentioned s/w like Outlook, OneDrive. Workspace INK  and OneNote....since your machine was high end....was that all 'taken care of' since you paid a premium price for a premium product?
  3. Overall, how do you like the Surface. Is it up to the hype? I considered buying one but I got a Dell Inspiron 13 at 1/3 the price and twice the horsepower....but also ....it appears 5 times the grief s/w wise. :D
  4. What are the screen sizes?

I am pondering another laptop....between the 'issues' and I am finding a 13inch screen is not great for long sessions or involved work.

Thanks ....appreciate your thoughts. Guido

Edited by Guido2

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44 minutes ago, Guido2 said:

Aaaahhhhhaa. You answered the 1M dollar question.

Thinking back at all the treads and such I have viewed, I don't remember ONE time that a Surface was in the mix of trying to fix something. Makes perfect sense.....it is a MS designed system, which is optimized to match perfectly the ins and outs of Win 10 and throw in the fact that MS is going to be damn sure THEIR system worked just fine..... the others 'meh' we'll get to it.

The more I think about it.....when Apple was really into computers....you NEVER heard people complaining about it...NEVER....hardly anyone made 'clone' Apples. Makes perfect sense. Talk about a V-8 moment. SSShhhhesssh.

So in a way you are the exception that proves the rule/point.

Another question or two or three if don't mind.

  1. Is your home computer one that is loaned to you by your company?
  2. I mentioned s/w like Outlook, OneDrive. Workspace INK  and OneNote....since your machine was high end....was that all 'taken care of' since you paid a premium price for a premium product?
  3. Overall, how do you like the Surface. Is it up to the hype? I considered buying one but I got a Dell Inspiron 13 at 1/3 the price and twice the horsepower....but also ....it appears 5 times the grief s/w wise. :D
  4. What are the screen sizes?

I am pondering another laptop....between the 'issues' and I am finding a 13inch screen is not great for long sessions or involved work.

Thanks ....appreciate your thoughts. Guido

1. It is the company's computer. I plan on retiring from here but if not, I will probably buy it from them. 

2. We have Office 365 so all that comes with it.

3. I LOVE my surface. It was pricey. Like $2700. But I use it all day docked for programming and then pop off the screen for tablet mode / stylus to take to meetings. The only problem I have had with it is sometimes when moving from docked monitors to the local screen, it doesn't adjust the resolution of some running programs. My VI editor, and Skype being the most problematic.

4. The books are all 13.3 although the book 2 has a 15.something option. It is plenty big enough when using it as a laptop or tablet for my use, but again, most of my usage is docked. 

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1 minute ago, Rael said:

1. It is the company's computer. I plan on retiring from here but if not, I will probably buy it from them. 

2. We have Office 365 so all that comes with it.

3. I LOVE my surface. It was pricey. Like $2700. But I use it all day docked for programming and then pop off the screen for tablet mode / stylus to take to meetings. The only problem I have had with it is sometimes when moving from docked monitors to the local screen, it doesn't adjust the resolution of some running programs. My VI editor, and Skype being the most problematic.

4. The books are all 13.3 although the book 2 has a 15.something option. It is plenty big enough when using it as a laptop or tablet for my use, but again, most of my usage is docked. 

Ahhhh so you really don't have to deal with the nasty bits that we mere mortals  have to .... a tech set everything up....and you hae 360 so you ddn't have to wade through all the stuff I mentioned. God 360 alone and things needed to go with it is nearly 300-500 a year. I would be a happy camper too. As you know I worked for HP as a tech lead...and I had all the cool tools and contacts that made fixing things fun and a snap relative  to now.

In fact I used to 'play/fix' issues like I am talking about ....on the companies dime (MS contact stream...etc) and get paid for it to boot. A manager might come around ask what I was doing ...tell him in IT-ese and he/she would node and say 'Good work.....keep it up... it is good we have people like you'....and wonder off.

Now like Thor without his hammer I am a mere  mortal. :D

So when you retiring mind if I ask what you do in general? As you know mine was Networkng/It support and teaching.

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Not for awhile (I hope). I'm 54. Probably stick it out until I'm 62, unless I get really lucky financially before that. 

I write software for warehouse/wholesale/retail systems. In house for a fairly large local group of companies. Last large project was bringing hand-held android devices into a warehouse to handle receiving/picking/boxing/inventory control talking to a web service middle layer to a Postgres database back end. The next large project, for the same company will be replacing their UPS Worldship systems with my homegrown shipping system so we can have tighter integration to that same Postgres database. I keep busy and I have fun. Not a bad situation. 

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2 hours ago, Rael said:

Not for awhile (I hope). I'm 54. Probably stick it out until I'm 62, unless I get really lucky financially before that. 

I write software for warehouse/wholesale/retail systems. In house for a fairly large local group of companies. Last large project was bringing hand-held android devices into a warehouse to handle receiving/picking/boxing/inventory control talking to a web service middle layer to a Postgres database back end. The next large project, for the same company will be replacing their UPS Worldship systems with my homegrown shipping system so we can have tighter integration to that same Postgres database. I keep busy and I have fun. Not a bad situation. 

Sounds interesting. So w/ Android you are using a flavor of Linux as the OS. You coding at that level with calls and such in Linux, using one of the app developement tools or hard coding with c/c++, Perl, Java? Just curious.

I did some coding...used Perl a lot for database conversions.. pretty flexable. I did coding but could never get into it. I always felt like I was climbing out of a deep well when someone asked me a question...took time to 'come up'. I enjoyed Enterprise level systems development/analysis/building and support. One had to always 'shift' your attention....seemed to fit better for me.

Funny thing was...that after I retired.... I got more headhunters contacting me than I ever got at HP. Go figure. But then most of my prime working career was during the great recession.

 

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14 hours ago, Guido2 said:

Sounds interesting. So w/ Android you are using a flavor of Linux as the OS. You coding at that level with calls and such in Linux, using one of the app developement tools or hard coding with c/c++, Perl, Java? Just curious.

I did some coding...used Perl a lot for database conversions.. pretty flexable. I did coding but could never get into it. I always felt like I was climbing out of a deep well when someone asked me a question...took time to 'come up'. I enjoyed Enterprise level systems development/analysis/building and support. One had to always 'shift' your attention....seemed to fit better for me.

Funny thing was...that after I retired.... I got more headhunters contacting me than I ever got at HP. Go figure. But then most of my prime working career was during the great recession.

 

Actually I am using a tool called B4A which is an object oriented language syntactically similar to Visual Basic that compiles into Java for use with Android or Objective C for use with IOS. Although that is a slightly different product by the same company and it doesn't provide full project level compatibility. You still need separate projects for Android and IOS although about 95% of the code can be ported. I used C# WCF and Web API for the web service layers. 

This was done before Xamarin came out. I will probably look into that for my next mobile project. 

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Sounds interesting. And seems nothing has changed. That is no one 'language/package' of tools is able to do the entire job...by that I mean....years ago you worried about two things.....the OS and the code...say IBM 360 OS and Cobol...yeah Cobol or Fortran or RPG...showing my age.....then they rolled out products the 'thought' could do the app code and simply called the OS....long story short....we now have a house of babble of languages (well you do....I'm retired :D) to do the entire task.

Question ....you have said several times ' You still need separate projects ' .... is that the lingo now for....'you have to have several different routines and sub-routine calls to do anything' ie....an OS set of code....another language set code for the database....another language set of code for the user interface...and so on. And you call then 'projects' because the assigned to individual groups or persons to do?

I used VB and it was pretty good....but generally not up to heavy duty stuff.....but it do the 'entire package' pretty well. I always ended up going to C or Perl for more advanced stuff.

Thanks for the converstation....it is interesting. Nice clean exchange of ideas....no sniping ....no trash talk...no I am right you are always wrong stuff like we see on the other threads.

Have a good one. g

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Cyberpower PCs have an option you can just get theirs with a Formatted HD. I have a Licensed Box with W7Pro

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10 hours ago, Bartman said:

Cyberpower PCs have an option you can just get theirs with a Formatted HD. I have a Licensed Box with W7Pro

I'll have to keep that in mind. A new puter is a ways off.

I have been 'playing' with this system and slowly it seems to be calming down. But that may also be due to another MS update the snuck in. There is another thing I hate about Win 10. I set the config to alert me if updates are available...I check...and decide to load them. However if you do....the install almost always 'flips' everything back on to 'auto load' so if you are not paying attention....well it does.

Another thing is trying to get at the crash dump and error code log.In 7 you just clice on error logs (I think) and there you are...dumps were equally easy. NOW.....you got to load 2 download 2 tools....and install that...which I have read on blogs and such ....also has issues...run an analysis...to get the report. Which I have read is not much better than the stopcode screen you get. Only diff is you get study the report...not trying to write down the code before the system stops dumping and restarts.

Personally, I think MS deliberately made things more and more difficult for someone with a brain to try and figure out problems. All this in an effort to FORCE people to finally throw up their hands and say 'Fine....I give up....I can't be wasting hours a day fixing this thing....here here is your blood money for OneDrive and the rest....you maintain it....I just want to use it.

While working for HP we were always running across this stuff...but with the power of a big company....I/we had leverage and were able to cut through the crap. But I don't remember anything like Win 10 is.

Oh well....there is always Linux....just got to find one that is touch screen stable.

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No problems experienced with Windows 10 update or the Creators update as of yet.

 

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On 11/16/2017 at 10:33 AM, Guido2 said:

Sounds interesting. And seems nothing has changed. That is no one 'language/package' of tools is able to do the entire job...by that I mean....years ago you worried about two things.....the OS and the code...say IBM 360 OS and Cobol...yeah Cobol or Fortran or RPG...showing my age.....then they rolled out products the 'thought' could do the app code and simply called the OS....long story short....we now have a house of babble of languages (well you do....I'm retired :D) to do the entire task.

Question ....you have said several times ' You still need separate projects ' .... is that the lingo now for....'you have to have several different routines and sub-routine calls to do anything' ie....an OS set of code....another language set code for the database....another language set of code for the user interface...and so on. And you call then 'projects' because the assigned to individual groups or persons to do?

I used VB and it was pretty good....but generally not up to heavy duty stuff.....but it do the 'entire package' pretty well. I always ended up going to C or Perl for more advanced stuff.

Thanks for the converstation....it is interesting. Nice clean exchange of ideas....no sniping ....no trash talk...no I am right you are always wrong stuff like we see on the other threads.

Have a good one. g

Two things, I STILL use some cobol. Our main order processing system is still cobol based. Lot's of additions to make it more extensible to modern tools but still cobol at the core.

What I mean by two different projects is that the B4A and the B4i products are two separate IDE's. Most of the code is reusable but you program them with two different products. 

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Microsoft has had many brilliant marketing decisions. The first being the most counter-intuitive. They made DOS so easily stealable. Everyone pirated a copy of DOS and when a critical mass was reached, they just say to all the PC manufacturers "Everyone is using it. Why don't you just pre-install it for a cut in price?". The rest was history. 

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On 11/17/2017 at 10:31 AM, Ode2Joy said:

No problems experienced with Windows 10 update or the Creators update as of yet.

 

Wow...what are  you running it on hardware wise and how old is the machine. Did you load 1709? Or are you like Rael and failed to tell me 'Oh yeah it is a company machine' :D That is a big difference when you have techs doing the dirty work. :lol: Kidding...well sort of.

As I said .... as a tech lead at HP Iwe had all the tools and connections and time to mess with this stuff.....plus the company paid us for it...even if office use PCers were not our/my department (Imaging/Databases/systems worldwide for the VA). For the day to day machines....the PC group...sanitised and tested and cleaned everthing up before they 'pushed' updates out. For the most part they always worked as advertised.

As I said.... all sorts of complaints with it on the forums/blogs. I would be interested to hear about your machine etc.

And in my case it could be that this particular Dell system just plain sucks....but then...it seems there are 100's of other brands also having issues including 'home grown'

Thanks for getting back to me. g

 

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23 hours ago, Rael said:

Two things, I STILL use some cobol. Our main order processing system is still cobol based. Lot's of additions to make it more extensible to modern tools but still cobol at the core.

What I mean by two different projects is that the B4A and the B4i products are two separate IDE's. Most of the code is reusable but you program them with two different products. 

Oh yes COBOL is still out there. I know SS back around 2000  was still using it. In fact a SS neighbor of mine try recruiting me to work on the Year 2000 issue in the code. I had to take a pass...was working full time at HP and was on call 24/7...no time. I know they were supposed to migrate to smething else eventually....but did they?

Ahhh WYIWYG tools for Android and Apple. Ok... you build the base 'stuff' with them...then use other languages to mod the object code you have? If so....compared other WYIs you have used is doing that easier than say early VB ... that was a dog. Again just curious.

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23 hours ago, Rael said:

Microsoft has had many brilliant marketing decisions. The first being the most counter-intuitive. They made DOS so easily stealable. Everyone pirated a copy of DOS and when a critical mass was reached, they just say to all the PC manufacturers "Everyone is using it. Why don't you just pre-install it for a cut in price?". The rest was history. 

What does around ....comes around. According to what I read.....Gates had no OS....and an IBM developer developed what became DOS...and since IBM didn't care and didn't have a company property rights on it. The developer sold it for 'a song'...sort of stealing. :lol:

I like to think of DOS as the first open shareware OS. :lol:

I don't shed any tears for MS or Gates over that one....I think they managed to get by financially. :rolleyes::o

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