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johnpolitics

Phillies want Manny.

49 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, bmore_ken said:

From what I saw of Davis's deal, a lot of the money is deferred. Unless I read the announcement wrong last year. I'll admit I'm more versed in NFL finances than MLB, but I don't see Davis's contract as an impediment to signing Manny. Again unless I have my facts wrong about the Davis contract, which is definitely possible. And yes we all agree that contract might be the worst in O's history.

If they trade MANNY their attendance will drop, like a rock!

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3 minutes ago, johnpolitics said:

If they trade MANNY their attendance will drop, like a rock!

As I said in my first post. I'm just one guy, but if they trade and/or not sign him, I'm done as a fan. I may be driving to Philly in the summer for games. 

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1 minute ago, bmore_ken said:

As I said in my first post. I'm just one guy, but if they trade and/or not sign him, I'm done as a fan. I may be driving to Philly in the summer for games. 

I did another post a few minutes ago and the O's are taking offers. God forbid if they would try to sign him!

As a Braves fan I'll give the O's Swanson, SP Teheran, another pitcher and Nick M if I can get a deal signed with Manny.

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1 hour ago, johnpolitics said:

LOOKS LIKE THE O'S WANT TO TRADE MANNY!

While it’s been reported that the Orioles are at least willing to listen to offers on Manny Machado, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic takes things a step further, reporting that the O’s have asked interested parties to make them offers for the star infielder (subscription required and highly recommended). The term “infielder” is of particular note, as Rosenthal also writes that Machado’s desire is to return to shortstop in 2018 whether he’s in Baltimore or with a new club.

Machado, 25, has long stood out as an on-paper trade candidate given his proximity to free agency and the Orioles’ lack of starting pitching. The O’s, who have been looking to add as many as three starters to their rotation this winter, will be hard-pressed to contend for an AL East title in 2018 (even more so in the wake of the Yankees’ acquisition of Giancarlo Stanton). With Machado set to hit the open market next winter in position to land a record-setting contract — assuming a healthy year, anything south of Stanton’s $325MM guarantee would seem to be a nonstarter — it’s difficult to envision him remaining in Baltimore. For the time being, MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz projects a $17.3MM salary for Machado next year after his final trip through the arbitration process.

The Orioles, per Rosenthal, are aiming to acquire two controllable young starters in any trade for Machado. That’s a lofty ask for a lot of teams, but a win-now club with an ample supply of touted but unproven pitching could look at that as an acceptable price to pay for a player that has been worth better than five wins per season, on average, over the past half decade (despite missing 80 games due to injury in 2014). Notably, Rosenthal adds that owner Peter Angelos does not want to trade with the division-rival Yankees.

Machado didn’t have his best season in 2017, as he got off to a shockingly pedestrian start to the year. Through the season’s first three months, Machado was batting just .216/.289/.423 with an elevated (by his standards) 20.6 percent strikeout rate. Over the final three months, though, the Machado of old resurfaced, as he mashed at a .295/.329/.513 pace with a vastly improved 13.1 percent punchout rate.

Machado has two Gold Gloves and a Platinum Glove to his name at third base and has long graded out as an elite defender there, but there’s little doubt that he could still handle shortstop at an above-average level as well. He logged nearly 400 innings there in 2016, for instance, and drew generally positive marks from Ultimate Zone Rating (+1.9) and Defensive Runs Saved (+3).

From a broader perspective, Machado is one of several players entering his final year of team control in Baltimore. Zach Britton, Adam Jones and Brad Brach are all free agents following the 2018 season, while Jonathan Schoop is controlled for just one year beyond that. Depending on how aggressively the O’s are willing to sell off parts, they could quickly restock their farm with an ample supply of talent by marketing more than one of their soon-to-be free agents, though doing so would also mean largely punting on the 2018 campaign at the very least.

 

     It makes sense to me that the Orioles are gauging the market for Machado. He is entering his walk year and I for one would not like to see them pay him hundreds of millions to 

    stay for the next decade or so. Quite simply, they finished in last place with him and I do not believe that he is the player that i would build this team around for the next decade. 

    More importantly, Machado is the strongest asset that they have to bring back the element that the most desperately need, starting pitching. I have seen enough of Machado's

   lack  of hustle and focus over the past year or so to ascertain that he would not be the piece that i rebuild around. The contract to retain Machado would surely assure a rebuild.

  While the Orioles farm system has improved, i think that the rebuilding process would involve a few losing seasons and I could see Machado loafing  more and showing his 

  emotions on his sleeve when the losses pile up. I'd rather trade Machado at this point to retool the team. I would jump at the chance to move Machado for two controllable 

  rotation pieces and an infielder that can take Machado's spot in the lineup. I also believe that there are more than a few potential trading partners other than the high dollar 

  Yankees and Dodgers. Moreover, I don't think that it is essential that the acquiring team needs to lock Machado up long term. A team like the Brewers or Diamondbacks might 

  see the Machado as the key to boosting their chances of making a World Series run. Also, maybe Houston would love to have a left side that consists of Correa and Machado.

  The Orioles may wind up holding onto Machado in 2018, but I think that they have to consider trading their most valuable asset after last year's disappointing season.

 

 

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7 hours ago, EnochRoot said:

You know who the team would be then, who are itching to overpay on a guy to place into the middle of their lineup to make their blues go away?

Boston.

I wonder if Boston ruined their chances in the Manny sweepstakes by continually throwing at him, including his head. Was pretty blatant. I doubt Manny will forget about that, but then again money talks 

Edited by BayAreaBmore

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There’s also talk out here that SF Giants are maybe interested in trying to trade for Manny.

Not sure there’s much truth to this though.  Probably just the media and fans trying to stir up some action, they’re pretty desperate especially after missing out on Stanton.

Maybe the O’s can try to unload Trumbo on them. They really are desperate for any type of power  

Edited by BayAreaBmore

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6 minutes ago, BayAreaBmore said:

I wonder if Boston ruined there chances in the Manny sweepstakes by continually throwing at him, including his head. Was pretty blatant. I doubt Manny will forget about that, but then again money talks 

   Money does indeed talk, in addition, Farrell is no longer the manager.

   I don't think that Boston ruined their chances, however, they most likely did some damage with their bush actions against Machado.

 

 

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1 hour ago, russsnyder said:

    I have seen enough of Machado's lack  of hustle and focus over the past year or so to ascertain that he would not be the piece that i rebuild around.

Good point. I had let that slip my mind. But Manny does have a problem focusing on the game, when there's nothing on the line, or when (I assume) he feels like the individual game is already lost. 

It's odd that he loses focus and interest so easily. He's forever talking about how his passion for the game was instilled in him, by his deceased grandfather. He's really not paying proper respect to his GF's legacy when he's starting unprovoked fights, falling asleep on the base path or his somewhat frequent lack of hustle episodes.   

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3 hours ago, CROUSEMAN said:

Sure looks like some landing spots for Manny are drying up.  Yanks picked 265mil on the Stanton deal and Judge/Sanches will need paid down the road.  Dodgers have Turner/Seager and Marlins look like they are on the cheap.  Unless the Marlins are actually clearing the decks for Manny.  Manny at short in Miami would be a better face of franchise for Jeter than Stanton.  Boston would be in play as well.

Chase Headley has been traded by the Yankees back to San Diego. I haven't seen specifics, and I guess it won't be finalized until the obligatory physicals, but as it stands right now, the Yankees have cleared up to $13 million in payroll to offset the Stanton contract. Unless they're also sending money to San Diego to provide some salary relief (and Headley is only signed through next season), they could still accomplish their goal of re-setting their luxury tax liability in order to go all-in on free agency after next season.

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23 minutes ago, weird-O said:

Good point. I had let that slip my mind. But Manny does have a problem focusing on the game, when there's nothing on the line, or when (I assume) he feels like the individual game is already lost. 

It's odd that he loses focus and interest so easily. He's forever talking about how his passion for the game was instilled in him, by his deceased grandfather. He's really not paying proper respect to his GF's legacy when he's starting unprovoked fights, falling asleep on the base path or his somewhat frequent lack of hustle episodes.   

   He probably does not see the lapses in the same light. However, I agree that if you going to state that you are playing to honor someone, ity is odd that you seem to play with a lack    of effort at times. I chalk it up to the game coming so easily to him and immaturity to a greater degree. As talented as he is, I say let somebody else pay him, but get the best return      that you can.

 

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8 hours ago, ivanbalt said:

And that's the problem with what baseball has become.  Only the giant payroll teams can keep their superstars.

The only way to fix that is a salary cap. And the players, after being swindled and misused for nearly a century by owners, will never, ever let that happen. There are probably still owners who burn little Dave McNally effigies from time to time.

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8 minutes ago, Evil Yoda said:

The only way to fix that is a salary cap. And the players, after being swindled and misused for nearly a century by owners, will never, ever let that happen. There are probably still owners who burn little Dave McNally effigies from time to time.

Marvin Miller is essentially blacklisted from Cooperstown because of this.

Keith Olbermann's tweet from a couple days ago:

Quote

16 voters. 12 votes needed for election. Two active or former GMs. Two active or former Team Presidents. Two active or former Team Chairmen. The committees are constructed to make sure management can veto his election. It’s simple revenge.

 

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In Miller's case, not getting into Cooperstown may be a higher honor.

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5 minutes ago, EnochRoot said:

Marvin Miller is essentially blacklisted from Cooperstown because of this.

Keith Olbermann's tweet from a couple days ago:

 

That's classic collusion. Oh well, he went to his grave knowing he smashed the plantation system that baseball use to operate under.

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19 minutes ago, Evil Yoda said:

The only way to fix that is a salary cap. And the players, after being swindled and misused for nearly a century by owners, will never, ever let that happen. There are probably still owners who burn little Dave McNally effigies from time to time.

More like Andy Messersmith. McNally agreed to lend his name to the grievance only later. 

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13 minutes ago, EnochRoot said:

Marvin Miller is essentially blacklisted from Cooperstown because of this.

Keith Olbermann's tweet from a couple days ago:

 

Thing is, that committee also consists of of Hall of Fame players, and even some of those--the guys who benefited the most from what he did--haven't voted to put Miller in.

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If the Orioles are looking for controllable pitching in return for Machado, then St. Louis, not the Phillies, might be the best fit.

The Cardinals were all-in on Stanton, so they're looking for a slugger in the middle of that lineup.

Edited by mdrunning

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12 minutes ago, mdrunning said:

Thing is, that committee also consists of of Hall of Fame players, and even some of those--the guys who benefited the most from what he did--haven't voted to put Miller in.

Do you consistently vote Miller in hopes of creating a referendum on the matter? Because the opportunity cost to that is not voting for peers you played with. 

That's also assuming you're safe in the knowledge that you're free to vote for Miller without the committee being dissolved and restructured. 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Evil Yoda said:

The only way to fix that is a salary cap. And the players, after being swindled and misused for nearly a century by owners, will never, ever let that happen. There are probably still owners who burn little Dave McNally effigies from time to time.

Yeah that will never happen.  Baseball is by far the most profitable pro sport for players in terms of salary and while (some) owners might be upset that they can't compete in signing/retaining players, they make plenty too.

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16 minutes ago, EnochRoot said:

Do you consistently vote Miller in hopes of creating a referendum on the matter? Because the opportunity cost to that is not voting for peers you played with. 

That's also assuming you're safe in the knowledge that you're free to vote for Miller without the committee being dissolved and restructured. 

 

 

I honestly don't know what goes on when the merit of individual candidates are being considered, or when ballots are actually cast.

I don't think, however, that the committee was revamped solely for the purpose of keeping Marvin Miller out. I think it was done mainly to try and restructure the old Veterans Committee, which if you look at some of the least deserving players in the Hall, the Veterans Committee was probably responsible for most of them. 

I really believe that the process was changed in order to elect qualified candidates, not to blackball any one man. The fact that there is a predominance of executives, both past and present, on the committee would seem to indicate a sentiment that former players are not the best qualified at electing non-inductees. Really, would anyone expect the recently-elected Jack Morris to really put his heart and soul into determining whether or not Colonel Jacob Ruppert or Doug Harvey are qualified candidates?

Given the way various iterations of the Veteran's Committee didn't elect anyone in various years, there are probably a number of omissions dating further back than Marvin Miller to be remedied. Barney Dreyfuss and Walter O'Malley, two pioneering owners whose legacies go much further back than Marvin Miller, didn't get in until 2008, long after both were dead (over 75 years, in Dreyfuss's case). The good news for Marvin Miller is that his case can now be reconsidered twice every five years, rather than once every three.

 

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1 minute ago, mdrunning said:

I honestly don't know what goes on when the merit of individual candidates are being considered, or when ballots are actually cast.

I don't think, however, that the committee was revamped solely for the purpose of keeping Marvin Miller out. I think it was done mainly to try and restructure the old Veterans Committee, which if you look at some of the least deserving players in the Hall, the Veterans Committee was probably responsible for most of them. 

I really believe that the process was changed in order to elect qualified candidates, not to blackball any one man. The fact that there is a predominance of executives, both past and present, on the committee would seem to indicate a sentiment that former players are not the best qualified at electing non-inductees. Really, would anyone expect the recently-elected Jack Morris to really put his heart and soul into determining whether or not Colonel Jacob Ruppert or Doug Harvey are qualified candidates?

Given the way various iterations of the Veteran's Committee didn't elect anyone in various years, there are probably a number of omissions dating further back than Marvin Miller to be remedied. Barney Dreyfuss and Walter O'Malley, two pioneering owners whose legacies go much further back than Marvin Miller, didn't get in until 2008, long after both were dead (over 75 years, in Dreyfuss's case). The good news for Marvin Miller is that his case can now be reconsidered twice every five years, rather than once every three.

 

I'm still pissed about Dale Murphy getting screwed.

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13 hours ago, bleedingorangeandblack said:

 

Angelos seems to have a blanket, "No Trading with NY" rule. He should reflect on the last time NY and Baltimore dealt with each other. If he looks into it, he'll see things worked out pretty well for the O's.

Edited by weird-O

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