dshawg1

Sounds like DD is more willing to trade Manny suddenly...

255 posts in this topic

11 hours ago, JoyinMudville said:

It’s not often a franchise decides to part with a lock for a hall of fame career.

I wonder if it’s a weird effort to get him to the bargaining table

This franchise is run in ways that defy conventional wisdom. I don't know what Angelos is trying to accomplish with it, other than making himself richer. Basically, Eli Jacobs write larger.

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7 minutes ago, CROUSEMAN said:

I was getting ready to edit my post.  He said it was either Kopech or Giallto, but not both.  Gialltto MLB ready, but Kopech has the huge upside and is close.  Watch us flip Kopech for Duffy.  A future ace for a number 3 starter.  All in the name of going for it in 2018 in DD and Buck's swan song.   

Yep, that wouldn't be shocking at all.

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Some really interesting talk on MLB Network about the O's and Machado.  Rosenthal in middle so take with a grain of salt.  O' realized a while ago (probably 2 years ago when they last tried to extend Machado), that he was out of their price range.  So they made the decision to give big money to Davis who is a big favorite of Angelos.  So they knew when they did this deal that a long term deal with Machado was not possible.  They also criticized the Davis deal on its own as disastrous for the O's. 

This discussion confirmed to me that the 161 mil was only available to Davis.  Angelos made the assumption that signing Davis would satisfy the fans when it came time for Manny to depart.  Well he has lost on both fronts.  Fans mad that Manny is leaving and fans mad that Davis is signed for big bucks and that he sucks.  

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I really don't see the wisdom in trading Machado--if indeed it comes to that--then shifting gears and doing the exact opposite to get Danny Duffy. I get that pitchers don't want to come here, but if Machado is traded, that's a message as big as sky-writing that the team is in rebuild mode. Fine, but stick with it.Getting Danny Duffy is not going to placate those fans who will inevitably be upset over trading Manny. 

 

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A beat writer for the White Sox said he doesn't see them giving up Kopech or Giallto for Manny. 

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2 hours ago, CROUSEMAN said:

Some really interesting talk on MLB Network about the O's and Machado.  Rosenthal in middle so take with a grain of salt.  O' realized a while ago (probably 2 years ago when they last tried to extend Machado), that he was out of their price range.  So they made the decision to give big money to Davis who is a big favorite of Angelos.  So they knew when they did this deal that a long term deal with Machado was not possible.  They also criticized the Davis deal on its own as disastrous for the O's. 

This discussion confirmed to me that the 161 mil was only available to Davis.  Angelos made the assumption that signing Davis would satisfy the fans when it came time for Manny to depart.  Well he has lost on both fronts.  Fans mad that Manny is leaving and fans mad that Davis is signed for big bucks and that he sucks.  

Thanks for the update. Sounds pretty accurate. What a terribly run organization. They’ll be a huge backlash if Manny is trade. 

Angelos must think O’s fans are complete idiots 

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2 hours ago, CROUSEMAN said:

Some really interesting talk on MLB Network about the O's and Machado.  Rosenthal in middle so take with a grain of salt.  O' realized a while ago (probably 2 years ago when they last tried to extend Machado), that he was out of their price range.  So they made the decision to give big money to Davis who is a big favorite of Angelos.  So they knew when they did this deal that a long term deal with Machado was not possible.  They also criticized the Davis deal on its own as disastrous for the O's. 

This discussion confirmed to me that the 161 mil was only available to Davis.  Angelos made the assumption that signing Davis would satisfy the fans when it came time for Manny to depart.  Well he has lost on both fronts.  Fans mad that Manny is leaving and fans mad that Davis is signed for big bucks and that he sucks.  

I'm beginning to think that Angelos just does not know the fans at all if he thinks many fans would have been irate if the Orioles didn't sign Davis to that overpriced contract.

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From Bob Nightengale of USA Today:

 

Quote

The #WhiteSox insist they have no intention to flip Manny Machado if they land him, but also believe other teams have made better offers to #Orioles

Not buying it for a nano-second.

Edited by mdrunning

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17 minutes ago, weird-O said:

A beat writer for the White Sox said he doesn't see them giving up Kopech or Giallto for Manny. 

That's beat man! :lol:

Machado will fetch a top flight arm in return. It's not like he's been handed a no trade clause..

 

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19 minutes ago, BayAreaBmore said:

Thanks for the update. Sounds pretty accurate. What a terribly run organization. They’ll be a huge backlash if Manny is trade. 

Angelos must think O’s fans are complete idiots 

If indeed Manny is dealt (and I still have my doubts), I think there will be a much bigger backlash if the Orioles bungle this trade. These types of situations don't have rewind buttons.

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28 minutes ago, BayAreaBmore said:

What a terribly run organization.

Angelos must think O’s fans are complete idiots 

The first part can't be repeated often enough. As to the second, well, folks keep spending money for a mediocre product. Only in professional sports do people do this. If you bought a car that worked as well as the Cleveland Browns play, for example, would you ever buy a car from that company again? Only if you were a masochist. And that's what Orioles fans have to be. :)

Juror #7: You a Yankee fan?

Juror #5: No, Baltimore.

Juror #7: Baltimore? That's like being hit in the head with a crowbar once a day.

Edited by Evil Yoda

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37 minutes ago, BayAreaBmore said:

Angelos must think O’s fans are complete idiots 

I think the better description is that Pete is such a brilliant lawyer, that's he's been able to construct a financial eco system that doesn't have to take the fans into consideration at all. He'd make truckloads of money, even if every game was played like this one

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK0cGLd2Bes

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16 minutes ago, weird-O said:

I think the better description is that Pete is such a brilliant lawyer, that's he's been able to construct a financial eco system that doesn't have to take the fans into consideration at all. He'd make truckloads of money, even if every game was played like this one

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK0cGLd2Bes

Ubaldo pitched a good game and Davis actually did something at the plate. This clip should be in the Smithsonian. 

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4 minutes ago, mdrunning said:

Ubaldo pitched a good game and Davis actually did something at the plate. This clip should be in the Smithsonian. 

I love it :lol:

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I'm sure Angelos purposefully "leaked" the idea that Manny would be available via trade, but in reality, he's not going to be traded in the off-season.  Angelos wanted to appear like he is trying to grow the franchise for years to come, but PA's personal clock is ticking faster and faster on becoming beloved in Baltimore with a WS championship (his goal).  This way, DD can say, on behalf of PA (really), that "teams didn't offer anything approaching Manny's value -- we were open to a trade -- didn't you hear the news reports'? 

Once it becomes apparent that the playoffs are out of reach, in July, they will end up trading Manny for a top prospect and a mid-level prospect just to save face.  Whereas, I imagine we could probably get two elite prospects now. 

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2 hours ago, mdrunning said:

I really don't see the wisdom in trading Machado--if indeed it comes to that--then shifting gears and doing the exact opposite to get Danny Duffy. I get that pitchers don't want to come here, but if Machado is traded, that's a message as big as sky-writing that the team is in rebuild mode. Fine, but stick with it.Getting Danny Duffy is not going to placate those fans who will inevitably be upset over trading Manny. 

 

Agreed

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11 minutes ago, Balmerboh said:

I'm sure Angelos purposefully "leaked" the idea that Manny would be available via trade, but in reality, he's not going to be traded in the off-season.  Angelos wanted to appear like he is trying to grow the franchise for years to come, but PA's personal clock is ticking faster and faster on becoming beloved in Baltimore with a WS championship (his goal).  This way, DD can say, on behalf of PA (really), that "teams didn't offer anything approaching Manny's value -- we were open to a trade -- didn't you hear the news reports'? 

Once it becomes apparent that the playoffs are out of reach, in July, they will end up trading Manny for a top prospect and a mid-level prospect just to save face.  Whereas, I imagine we could probably get two elite prospects now. 

I gotta say, I've been following this team throughout the entire Angelos era, and aside from 1996 & 1997, I have never seen anything to suggest that winning a WS and being beloved in Baltimore has ever been his goal.  

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33 minutes ago, Balmerboh said:

I'm sure Angelos purposefully "leaked" the idea that Manny would be available via trade, but in reality, he's not going to be traded in the off-season.  Angelos wanted to appear like he is trying to grow the franchise for years to come, but PA's personal clock is ticking faster and faster on becoming beloved in Baltimore with a WS championship (his goal).  This way, DD can say, on behalf of PA (really), that "teams didn't offer anything approaching Manny's value -- we were open to a trade -- didn't you hear the news reports'? 

Once it becomes apparent that the playoffs are out of reach, in July, they will end up trading Manny for a top prospect and a mid-level prospect just to save face.  Whereas, I imagine we could probably get two elite prospects now. 

I don't think the idea of fielding offers for Manny originated with Angelos; I think that came from Duquette, but there's no way in hell he didn't run it by Angelos beforehand.

I was listening to Mark Viviano on The Fan earlier today, and I have to agree that at least for once, the Orioles appeared to be focused and pro-active at the Winter Meetings--at least by their standards--whereas in previous offseasons they just appeared to be meandering and waiting to see what would fall in their laps.

This is no doubt the biggest transaction Dan Duquette had ever handled, and he has to get it right. Not just for the future of the franchise, but for his own personal credentials as well. He doesn't figure to be here after next season, and if he still wishes to obtain an executive post elsewhere, then a trade that has everyone talking about what a great deal the Orioles made for Manny would do wonders for making that a reality.

My biggest fear, however, is that the Orioles will have the parameters for a deal in place, and then, once it's put before Angelos to sign off on, he'll scotch the whole thing. 

Edited by mdrunning

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24 minutes ago, mdrunning said:

I don't think the idea of fielding offers for Manny originated with Angelos; I think that came from Duquette, but there's no way in hell he didn't run it by Angelos beforehand.

I was listening to Mark Viviano on The Fan earlier today, and I have to agree that at least for once, the Orioles appeared to be focused and pro-active at the Winter Meetings--at least by their standards--whereas in previous offseasons they just appeared to be meandering and waiting to see what would fall in their laps.

This is no doubt the biggest transaction Dan Duquette had ever handled, and he has to get it right. Not just for the future of the franchise, but for his own personal credentials as well. He doesn't figure to be here after next season, and if he still wishes to obtain an executive post elsewhere, then a trade that has everyone talking about what a great deal the Orioles made for Manny would do wonders for making that a reality.

My biggest fear, however, is that the Orioles will have the parameters for a deal in place, and then, once it's put before Angelos to sign off on, he'll scotch the whole thing. 

I have concerns about this trade. I'm a DD supporter, but trades haven't been his strong suit. But I like the point you made about this being (essentially) his resume for his next interview. Until you mentioned that, I was thinking DD is just going to go in a direction that offers the best scenario for 2018. Anything beyond that, he's just giving the middle finger. 

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1 hour ago, mdrunning said:

If indeed Manny is dealt (and I still have my doubts), I think there will be a much bigger backlash if the Orioles bungle this trade. These types of situations don't have rewind buttons.

No question, I agree. I could see that happening too.  That is, trading Manny for the wrong prospects 

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1 minute ago, EnochRoot said:

That's a couple of hep cats!

You know it Daddy-o

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4 minutes ago, BayAreaBmore said:

No question, I agree. I could see that happening too.  That is, trading Manny for the wrong prospects 

I disagree.

Worst thing is we lose him a season early during a time when they're not going to contend anyway. Last time I checked they need 3 SP's.

You kind of have nothing to lose here, and you also have the opportunity to resign him if you want.

But it's pretty clear Petey doesnt want to put out the cash for Manny and sunk $161 million into Davis to "please the fans".

You know, because fans love strikeouts and all.

So just trade him. Get something for him instead of a draft pick they'll just muck up anyway.

Edited by Pickle20

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