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Manny

John Harbaugh

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See, I think the team has / had a playmaker to lean on when they needed it. He showed it in PIT when he ran through two tacklers, tip toed the sideline, and broke off a huge run. He showed it last night when he took a pitch to the left, saw a wall of Bengals in front of him, turned it the other way and scored what might have been the most impressive individual effort TD we've seen here since Steve Smith's Ravens debut when he literally slapped around the Bengals secondary to score a long TD.

To my eyes, if you paid attention to what Alex Collins did on the field this season... you make him the focal point of the offense. You try to maximize the number of touches he gets, and try to get him the ball in space. I didn't see that out of Marty and company, and that's a shame. You had one player who showed flashes all season of the "skill position" traits we all gripe the Ravens don't have enough of... and they failed miserably to use it to their advantage. That's a coaching issue in my opinion...

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Yeah as really think that the coach has missed the playoffs for a couple of seasons. And ever since Joe Flacco got his big contract. Really that could be something of a curse. 

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And considering what Kubiak's offensive scheme did for Joe and a 29 year-old solid back named Justin Forsett... imagine what he / it could do with a 23 year-old Alex Collins as the feature back...

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Unfortunately Kubiak is staying in Denver - according to Elway who is expanding his responsibilities.

 

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16 minutes ago, poefolks said:

Unfortunately Kubiak is staying in Denver - according to Elway who is expanding his responsibilities.

 

Marty isn't going anywhere anyway.  As much as that pains some fans, the fact is that the offense got better to the point of it being the strength of the team down the stretch, while the defense began sagging.  The Ravens scored something like the 2nd or 3rd most points the second half of the season.  The FO is already parotting that line. 

Now this is really going to ruffle some feathers - I don't think that the Ravens make a lot of moves on offense in the offseason.  They will focus on getting Joe a playmaker or two at WR and some line depth, and that is about it.  

The Ravens lost the Cincy game because their defense, once again, couldn't finish a game.  4th and 12.  Give up a 49 yard TD pass.  Allowed a bad offense to drive 90 yards when their entire season depended on it.  Not the fault of anyone, but the defense, who, I might add, was well rested in the second half.  Offensive inconsistency in the first half aside, the defense, prior to anyone else stepping on the field, allowed that bottom ranked Cincy offense to push them down the field ON THE GROUND.  They did it the entire half in fact. 

I still like our secondary.  When it's healthy.  The final play that smoked them was Pees' fault.  I don't know what in the hell he was thinking calling that.  Well I do - he was gambling, and it was an idiotic gamble.  Keep the safeties deep and worst case you head in to overtime. 

I don't like our pass rush.  It's good at times, but far too often it looks gassed.  Judon and Smith are great though.  Suggs is a freak of nature at 35, but he disappears too much.  Pierce and Williams are run stoppers only - and that is part of the issue.  We need another impact LB. 

If I'm Ozzie/Eric - I would see if a can't miss stud WR falls into their laps at 16, but I wouldn't move up for one.  I'd rather them get someone proven.  I don't know who's gonna be out there, Fitzgerald, right?  He's still got it.  They need a monster pass rusher, and some O-line help.  Please never let me see Hurst start another game.  Please.  Forget RB - we have a great stable there, IMO, with Dixon coming back as well.  Collins was a terrific find, and the bright spot of the season.  He's without a doubt to me, a top rate back.  I'd also start looking at Flacco's successor, but there isn't a huge rush yet on that.  Flacco is still here for the next few years, and I think the FO still believes he's got another run left in him and will try to get him some help.  His play down the stretch was good, and at times even great.  He was betrayed all year long by dropped passes, passes popped up for int's, and crappy route running/timing, as well as injury.  I could definitely see a difference in his mobility down the stretch.  The last few games he was making some amazing throws on the run, turning chicken sh** into chicken even.  But, he's probably not got more than 3 years left in him, and the Ravens would be wise to move on at that point anyway, so it's time to seriously start grooming someone, but only if it isn't at the cost of short range goals.

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Posted (edited)

I'm fine keeping Marty. John would just hire a good old buddy of his to run this boring, throw behind the sticks offense anyway and at least there was some progress in the second half of the season. So in this case, I'm OK with the consistency.

I'm excited about who they can bring in as DC. Hope it's Pagano or Fangio. There is enough talent on defense for them to be a legit top 5 defense and not a paper tiger defense which it always was under Pees.

Edited by Pickle20

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11 minutes ago, Pickle20 said:

I'm fine keeping Marty. John would just hire a good old buddy of his to run this boring, throw behind the sticks offense anyway and at least there was some progress in the second half of the season. So in this case, I'm OK with the consistency.

I'm excited about who they can bring in as DC. Hope it's Pagano or Fangio. There is enough talent on defense for them to be a legit top 5 defense and not a paper tiger defense which it always was under Pees.

I still think they need another pass rusher and impact ILB/OLB.  The rest is good though.

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The best thing the Ravens have going for them this offseason is their biggest free agent is a center.

I saw a blog post comparing the Ravens of the past few years to the Saints, and it does make some sense. Both are sort of in that gray area where they aren't bad enough to make major overhauls, but largely not good enough to truly compete with the New Englands and Pittsburghs of the world. 

What saved the Saints this year was an incredible draft, and the fact that they hit home with some cheaper free agents. That transformed them from a 7-win team to an 11-win team. The Ravens should take note.

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39 minutes ago, Pickle20 said:

I'm fine keeping Marty. John would just hire a good old buddy of his to run this boring, throw behind the sticks offense anyway and at least there was some progress in the second half of the season. So in this case, I'm OK with the consistency.

I'm excited about who they can bring in as DC. Hope it's Pagano or Fangio. There is enough talent on defense for them to be a legit top 5 defense and not a paper tiger defense which it always was under Pees.

The Ravens have a history of promoting from within when it comes to defensive coordinators, so if that pattern holds, Martindale would figure to be the choice.

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54 minutes ago, alienrace said:

I still think they need another pass rusher and impact ILB/OLB.  The rest is good though.

If this is truly the case that's sad for the scout dept. They've invested heavily in finding a good pass rush to the tune of multiple draft picks over multiple years- Judon, Z smith, Correa, Bowser, T. Williams etc. This would point to some kind of dysfunction with their scout dept overall too. Their drafts have under whelmed for the most part over many seasons now so definitely some kind of change is needed.

I hope they give the guys they have on Defense now a chance to continue developing- and just focus on Offense this year's draft. There's a chance one of the top 2 WRs (Courtland Sutton or Calvin Ridley) might be available at 16 so I'd wait and hope they drop, otherwise move up if you love one.

Ideal pick is Saquon Barkley if we could trade up but that's a pipe dream. He would singlehandedly give us a playoff appearance next year imo, without upgrading anything else on the roster.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

  • I doubt Marty gets fired given Flacco's comments immediately after his meeting with Harbaugh.  I actually think the offense was pretty good second half of the season, and I think Joe was not fully healthy until that time. Marty has actually helmed some pretty high scoring offenses throughout his career.  I think Allesandris and Roman did a bang-up job with the OL as well. Once they were healthy and got a few games together they were one of the best OL units in the NFL, and kept Joe upright - which allowed him to hit 90+ QBR or better every game after they bye.  Get Lewis, Yanda & Dixon back and the OL/RB situation is fine to excellent.

 

  • Home run hitter playmaker TE or WR is needed. A scare the defense dedicate a spy/double coverage kind of threat to score anytime he touches the ball kind of guy.  A big red zone target over 6' 5" - I heard they grow on trees (and no faith that Darren Waller is that guy). Perriman was supposed to be that guy but we know how that turned out.  Drafting one is really rolling the dice.  All three top 10 WRs drafted last year (Ross, Davis & Williams) had nearly zero impact.  Remember when everyone thought we should trade up to draft Tayvon Austin - the hometown kid by Dunbar - a few years ago. He went top-10 to the Rams and has had a low round type of career.  I agree that money would be better invested in a proven FA. Yeah - I know - they are hard to come by and cost some $ - but hopefully a good trade or cap casualty presents itself.

 

  • Agree with the AlienRace that LB - Pass Rush need to be better. That was a big factor in losing some of these leads late. Edge rush and LBs were overrated.  Boy -  Arthur Brown, Tyus Bowser, Kamalei Correa, Sergio Kindle and Bronson Kaufusi really had some impact on our defense didn't they --- oh wait a minute.  Add Perriman and Elam to the list above and you can see why "In Oz we bust" is starting to gain more traction.
Edited by RestonRaven

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I think they'll take either ILB Roquan Smith or Rashaad Evans in round 1 because it's necessary and safe.

   Then hopefully a big aggressive TE in round 2, also necessary.

Then a WR in round 3.

I can't figure out why they still have little to no pass rush so probably a DE in round 4. Does anyone know why Kafusi is never activated?? And Tim Williams appears to be another wasted pick.

Lower rounds-maybe a safety and/or additional CB's.

 

 

 

 

 

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Last 5 years for Harbaugh and the Ravens:

40 Wins

40 Losses

No Playoffs in 4 of 5 Years

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Posted (edited)

Saquon Barkley will go at 4 to the browns.  It makes too much sense for him not to.

I am a big proponent of stud running backs.  The Ravens have never been successful without one.

Edited by Slidemaster

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I'm going to be the voice of dissent about the offense and the progress it made in the second half of the season.   Yes, the front office will point to the fact that the team finished in the top 5 of points scored in their last 7 games, but statistics are deceiving.  Will the FO also go inside the numbers to tell you what was a big part of that?  Not likely.  Take a look at the defenses they played in the first 9 games before the break.  They faced 4 top 10 defenses, 4 in the teens and 1 in the 20's(Oakland).  After the bye they played 1 top 5 defense (Pittsburgh w/o Shazier or Haden), 2 in the teens, and 4 in the 20's.  The difference in the average defensive rankings of the teams they played before and after the bye was 11.5 before the bye vs. 19.4 after the bye.   I said the same thing when all of the pundits were thinking the Ravens might be the team nobody wanted to face in the playoffs.  The only person I heard say it was Phil Simms when he said, "But they haven't played anybody."  The same is true of the offense.  They put up those numbers against bottom feeder defenses.  It wasn't all that, the addition of Alex Collins definitely improved the running game and gave Flacco more to work with, but overall I saw some of the same problems from earlier in the year during the second half run.  They just didn't matter as much.  The final play of the game on Sunday was a perfect summation of the Ravens offense this season, 4th down, need the 1st, throw underneath and end up 1 yard short.  Game and season over.  

I personally think if the Ravens go into next year without making some serious changes, they will end up about what they were this year, a near .500 team.  The difference is next year's schedule will not be nearly as favorable.  In addition to the division, they will play the AFC west, NFC south, along with Buffalo and Tennessee.  They also won't likely face as many teams without their top QBs next year.   I think they're fooling themselves if they simply think that they can come back with this same roster, even with getting their injured players back, and be a much better team.  They need a serious upgrade in the WR department.  This time around they need to stop bargain basement hunting for other teams rejects and either draft a true future star, or engineer a trade for an already established top flight one.  It won't come cheap, perhaps they are going to have to part with some of that defensive talent they have been stockpiling.  One way or another, they cannot continue with what they have and expect to have a legitimate passing game that puts fear into opponents.  Prior to this season I did not see their RBs as a strength, but Collins has changed that.  He should be the #1 going into next season.  Keeping Ryan Jensen might be tough, but unless they do they will face a setback with a line that showed improvement but still may need some tweaking.

I'm not really sure what to make of the defense.  They started fantastic, but finished the season looking somewhat older and slower, especially the secondary.  I don't think you can't count on Jimmy Smith to stay on the field anymore.  He just doesn't seem like he will ever be healthy for any stretch of time.  Humphries performed well in his absence, with a few mistakes.  His worst was clearly tackling his man on Sunday negating a game ending interception by Eric Weddle.  But he was just a rookie and overall looked pretty good.  They need more pass rush.  Too often their only rush comes from the outside.  That was the case on the final play Sunday.   They had two guys coming from the sides, and Dalton just stepped up in the pocket and bought time to find Boyd behind the soft zone.  It's also part of what Roethlisberger did all night long a few weeks ago in route to a 500+ yard night.  They need to get more pressure up the middle or good QBs will just continue to exploit that.  

Overall the Ravens are not in terrible shape.  There are enough positives to be happy with.  But I still don't believe they can legitimately compete without at least overhauling the WR situation.  The AFC might be a little better next year.  Houston should have Watson back, and Oakland isn't likely to lay an egg like they did this year.  The competition might be a little better all around the conference and 9-7 might not be good enough to even have a team in position to be eliminated by tiebreakers.  It might take 10 wins to get in next year, and with the schedule the Raven's have next year, they aren't getting 10 wins by mostly standing pat with what they have.  They need to make some upgrades if they want to end this 3 year playoff drought.  

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Lots of great points cp.  I was going to do a game-by-game review of where / how a lot of those points came down the stretch.  Won't get in to ALL the details, but they were +13 in turnover margin after the bye (16 to 3 on take / give).  A lot of those points were either scored BY the defense, or set up in good / great / ridiculously great field position by the defense / special teams.  If you go +13 in turnover margin over 7 games, you SHOULD be scoring a lot of points.  I recall 5 take-aways at Green Bay, and a game that still wasn't out of doubt until the late... where the Ravens scored 23 points, 6 of which came on two FGs on drives that started inside the GB 30... and 7 more on a "drive" that started on the GB 3.  13 of those 23 points were set up by the D / ST... and were basically a gimme as long as they managed to not turn the ball over.  They scored 10 on offense truly of their own accord.

Marty finally got Collins a little more involved later in the year, which was an improvement, but it still wasn't enough of a role.  I noted Marty's offenses have never been consistently productive without a mobile QB throughout his career.  I heard Cerrato on 105.7 today make the most ridiculous point about Trestman winning a Grey Cup in Canada, and that he couldn't have won that Grey Cup with Flacco at QB.  Yeah, Joe could put together one of the best post-season runs of all time and win a Superbowl title (and Superbowl MVP), but he couldn't win a Grey Cup.

I hate having to constantly qualify this point, but if I don't some folks will act like I'm blind and think Joe can do no wrong.  Far from it.  His footwork can be better, his accuracy isn't pinpoint (never has been), and his decisions / trigger finger is a fraction of a second slower than the true "elite" QBs.  But in the right system, with the right talent around him, and the right scheme / calls... it seems he has the ability to outplay a Tom Brady (in two straight AFC title games even though they lost the first one)... and has the ability to win a Superbowl.  That's still more than MOST NFL QBs can say, and nothing to discount too quickly either in my opinion.

The OCs of the last three seasons haven't molded their systems to fit the QB, and instead have tried to get the QB and supporting cast to play to their system.  It's not really working.  It's not GOING to work either.  And I don't expect either aspect to change unless the OC changes, again.

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From a cap perspective, the Ravens should be in slightly better shape than previous years, but not by a whole lot. Current projections have them with about $12 million in cap space heading into the offseason. Not great, but not approaching salary cap hell, either. Those numbers are always a tad misleading, however, since all of the requisite cap adjustments haven't been applied. 

 

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12 hours ago, Slidemaster said:

Saquon Barkley will go at 4 to the browns.  It makes too much sense for him not to.

I am a big proponent of stud running backs.  The Ravens have never been successful without one.

Collins is a stud and the OL should be in much better shape with Yanda back next year.

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2 hours ago, Pickle20 said:

Collins is a stud and the OL should be in much better shape with Yanda back next year.

Collins is solid but his fumbles still worry me- he had 2 fumbles in the last 3 games that we luckily recovered. He is a strong runner though and will get better with a better line. Worried about Yanda's age and health- not sure how long he'll be effective.

Still if a guy like Barkley presented itself via trade - I'd pounce. He looks to be one of those generational type RBs that can change the future of a franchise- his skill set would immediately benefit Flacco whose game has mostly diminished to check downs now- imagine those check downs in the hands of Barkley. He can catch, run, do anything that's asked really and can take over games. Whoever gets him, will add a number of wins to their win/loss record directly related to his presence/play- even if it's the browns. Come back to this thread and call me out if that's not the case! 

Look at the impact Gurley has had on the Rams this year- Barkley might even be better than Gurley.

 

 

 

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At some point Harbaugh needs to be held accountable for the regular inconsistent play. 

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1 minute ago, ivanbalt said:

At some point Harbaugh needs to be held accountable for the regular inconsistent play. 

This is like deja vu- I remember saying the same thing last year and year before...

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, ivanbalt said:

At some point Harbaugh needs to be held accountable for the regular inconsistent play. 

Agreed.

Since winning the SB Harbaugh has brought in "his guys" whether they be players or coaches and made the Ravens "his team" once guys like Ray and Reed retired. The results speak for themselves.

Edited by Pickle20

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17 hours ago, Slidemaster said:

Saquon Barkley will go at 4 to the browns.  It makes too much sense for him not to.

I am a big proponent of stud running backs.  The Ravens have never been successful without one.

Justin Forsett and Le'ron McClain were "stud" running backs? Or is going to the second round of the playoffs and the AFC championship not "being successful"?

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2 hours ago, Rael said:

Justin Forsett and Le'ron McClain were "stud" running backs? Or is going to the second round of the playoffs and the AFC championship not "being successful"?

Justin Forsett was absolutely a stud the year he went off.  It didn't last, but for that year they had a stud, yes.

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7 hours ago, poefolks said:

Collins is solid but his fumbles still worry me- he had 2 fumbles in the last 3 games that we luckily recovered. He is a strong runner though and will get better with a better line. Worried about Yanda's age and health- not sure how long he'll be effective.

Still if a guy like Barkley presented itself via trade - I'd pounce. He looks to be one of those generational type RBs that can change the future of a franchise- his skill set would immediately benefit Flacco whose game has mostly diminished to check downs now- imagine those check downs in the hands of Barkley. He can catch, run, do anything that's asked really and can take over games. Whoever gets him, will add a number of wins to their win/loss record directly related to his presence/play- even if it's the browns. Come back to this thread and call me out if that's not the case! 

Look at the impact Gurley has had on the Rams this year- Barkley might even be better than Gurley.

 

 

 

Collins looks good, by Raven's standards, but he is no Todd Gurley or Alvin Kamara for that matter.

I wouldn't hang the whole  future success of the offense on Collins-look at Forsett-he had that one good year and then tanked.

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