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John Harbaugh

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7 hours ago, alienrace said:

Totally agree with all of this.

I'll add in a few other things too, though they may not be popular...

This season was one of the strangest of all.  Not just for the Ravens, but league-wide.  However, many fans have been very hypocritical.  They want sweeping changes, "blow it up", "fire everyone", the mantra all over the internet rings hollow to me.  They decry the lack of effort in the Cincy game, and I agree - there WAS a lack of effort, especially in the first half.  What I saw in the second half was the offense, in particular, Flacco, put the rest of team on it's back and took a lead, only to have the defense completely blow it, despite having the Bengals backed up at the 10 yard line, and later, nullifying a game ending interception with an idiotic penalty, and later giving up a 4th and 12 for a 49 yard TD.  Now we can blame the coaching for not having the team ready, but let's hold on a minute, ok?  If you were a Ravens player, and you saw what I saw - a half empty stadium - on a game that meant everything, just how much effort would you be putting forth?  If you're a fan who didn't show for the game, and you're going to criticize the effort by the players, maybe you should look in the mirror. 

I do think though, that this loss was very devastating to the organization and to Harbaugh.  Had they won, his legacy would have been cemented as a coach that got his team to the playoffs 7 out of 10 years, and he'd probably have been extended again.  He went from that to being squarely on the hot seat, all by one game, one play, in fact. 

Really, now you're going to blame the pathetic showing on the fans ....

Injuries, offensive line, fans, no recievers, what other excuses have you had this season to defend Flacco and Harbaugh .....

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1 hour ago, poefolks said:

I like your analysis resto- but I just don't buy this as the reason the team fails to make the playoffs last couple years. Sure the Defense should've held. But at same time, if Joe was consistent or played better (he is the absolute most important player who determines the fate of the team) the Defense probably wouldn't need to bear the responsibility to seal these game. Even if all he did was protect the football slightly better over the course of the season- we win more games in both seasons and don't need to rely on last minute defensive stands in win or die games to make the playoffs. He's the QB. He's inconsistent and average- and so the team is inconsistent and average imo.

Ahhh - and therein lies the rub.  Trying to quantify blame in what really is the ultimate team sport.  If Joe plays just a little bit better coming out of the gate we win and go to the playoffs; if the defense plays a little bit better at the end of Pittsburgh, Chicago or Cincy we win and go to the playoffs; if Jeremy Maclin does not step out of bounds before catching a beautiful pass from Flacco at the end of the Pittsburgh game - Tucker probably kicks a chip shot game winner and we go to the playoffs; if Weddle goes for a tackle instead of a strip against Chicago in OT we win that game;  if Perriman doesn't bounce pick-6's to defenders; if Ozzie picked JuJu Smith- Schuster or Alvin Kamara instead of Tyus Bowser and on and on.  Heck you can go back to single plays last year - if CJ Mosley doesn't try to dive and extend a ball over the pylon and fumble it through the end zone we likely win that Washington game, and it doesn't come down to the Pittsburgh game to get in.

I was reading a stat on Pro Football Focus last year - something around 65% of NFL games are in doubt by one score in the final 5 minutes of regulation.  The games are designed to be close. I think over the last two years the Ravens defense has coughed up around 7 or 8 fourth quarter leads in losses.  Joe helped put them into those leads, and you seem to be arguing that he needs to help put them into bigger leads so the defense does not need to make a stand to close those games.  I'm not sure that is realistic in today's NFL. If the D closed out even one additional stop in each of those two years - they would have made the playoffs.  In three big losses this year they had Pittsburgh at 3rd & 14 deep in their own territory and gave up a first down to extend the drive. They had Cincy 4th & 12 and we know what happened. They had Chicago pinned against their own goal line on 3rd down and gave up a 54 yard run when Weddle went for a strip over a tackle.  The strategic decision was made to put the biggest free agent and draft investment in defense - and why it is so painful to watch it not work when "finish and close" was their mantra. The strategy did not work when it counted. Any one of those wins meant 10-6 and a game at KC today.

This team is in sort of a Bermuda Triangle. They have just enough talent to hang in a big game and on the fringes of the playoff bubble during the season – but don’t have quite enough on either side of the ball (or enough recent impact draft picks from the front office) to close the gap.  I don't think it is any one unit or player that needs to be a little better - I think it is everyone from front office to coaches to players that need to be a little better (except Tucker - he's money).  It is not just an empty coach-speak phrase. If everyone was just a little better they would have been 11-5 instead of 9-7.  I'm not sure there is a single silver bullet that bridges that gap- which is why I think statements like "the whole problem is Flacco!" is myopic. 

How do they get out of that frustrating Bermuda Triangle purgatory - I don't know, but the draft really seems to be where it has to happen.  They do spend to the cap every year, so I do think the only fast way to a turnaround is a home run draft class. Easier said then done as their drafting certainly is an area that really "needs to get better."   I see the Ravens right now as the AFC version of the New Orleans Saints.  Payton/Brees have won a Super Bowl, but it has been a real scuffle since then. The just had 3 consecutive 7-9 years. I think Drew is still a top-5 QB, much better overall than Joe, but Drew had little supporting cast. This year they had a home run draft class with Lattimore on D and a bona fide playmaker on O with Kamara - and boom - they went 11-5.  One can only hope Baltimore can catch that kind of impact lightning in a bottle this draft year.  Cheers!

Edited by RestonRaven

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2 minutes ago, RestonRaven said:

 

This team is in sort of a Bermuda Triangle. They have just enough talent to hang in a big game and on the fringes of the playoff bubble during the season – but don’t have quite enough on either side of the ball to close the gap.  I don't think it is any one unit or player that needs to be a little better - I think it is everyone from front office to coaches to players that need to be a little better (except Tucker - he's money).  It is not just an empty coach-speak phrase. If everyone was just a little better they would have been 11-5 instead of 9-7.  I'm not sure there is a single silver bullet that bridges that gap- which is why I think statements like "the whole problem is Flacco!" is myopic. 

 

I agree mostly except where you say "I don't think it is any one unit or player that needs to be a little better". Joe directly impacts the game moreso than any other player so - although yes it's a team game- Joe touches the ball more than anyone else (except the center) and thus has a more direct impact on the end result. So- him playing better means that much more than Maclin, or Weddle, or Collins or Perriman playing better because the plays and the ball are in his hands and he can affect the play more than anyone. If he plays better, the chances of us winning goes up much moreso than any other player or unit. If weddle has the game of his life- we could still lose by 2 tds. If joe has the game of his life we win.

I don't think there's a silver bullet either- and at the same time it's simple- get better players! having said all this- the team is closer to Joe than any of us- know his flaws and strengths more than any of us. The fact they haven't addressed getting him what he needs is mind boggling. 

 

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Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, poefolks said:

I agree mostly except where you say "I don't think it is any one unit or player that needs to be a little better". Joe directly impacts the game moreso than any other player so - although yes it's a team game- Joe touches the ball more than anyone else (except the center) and thus has a more direct impact on the end result. So- him playing better means that much more than Maclin, or Weddle, or Collins or Perriman playing better because the plays and the ball are in his hands and he can affect the play more than anyone. If he plays better, the chances of us winning goes up much moreso than any other player or unit. If weddle has the game of his life- we could still lose by 2 tds. If joe has the game of his life we win.

I don't think there's a silver bullet either- and at the same time it's simple- get better players! having said all this- the team is closer to Joe than any of us- know his flaws and strengths more than any of us. The fact they haven't addressed getting him what he needs is mind boggling. 

 

Chicken & egg.  Agree that QB impacts more than others - but Joe simply does not have top-5 QB skillset talent that can elevate his consistency like that. Given his health issues and the surrounding talent - I think he probably played to his ceiling this year - which was in fact markedly better after the bye when he was healthy.  My opinion is that Joe needs a group that can elevate his play, more than the other way around. He can't lift a pedestrian skillset group to a higher plateau. Brady and Rodgers are the most accurate passers I have ever seen - they throw darts and can make even average receivers look great. Joe is not at that level and he needs a set of receivers that can make big YAC, snatch contested balls with strong hands, adjust to his underthrown balls - Anquan could do that, Ray Rice could do that, Pitta could do that, Torrey could that, Jacoby could do that (e.g. - that TD on the bomb to close the first half of the SB was Jacoby totally adjusting to an underthrow)

The chemistry Joe had with Anquan/Torrey/Dennis/Jacoby/Rice > Wallace/Maclin/Perriman/Watson/Collins.  The first group really brought out the best in Joe and could make plays even if Joe was off target. The second group is nowhere near that Super Bowl group talent wise.

Great discussion.  Cheers!

Edited by RestonRaven

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3 hours ago, RavingManiac said:

The man does play big in big time games. I expect him to play his best games against Pittsburgh in Pittsburgh. I expect him to play terrible in week 8 no matter who they play against. The man is money come playoff time which is what you want but the problem is getting there. I think next year is Flacco’s last year here. Harbaugh mentioned drafting a quarterback and then I think they just hired a quarterback coach from the Bengals and that makes me wonder if that is to groom the new quarterback...not Flacco. That is just speculation but isn’t he making like 24 million dollars? He just isn’t worth that kind of money. I read somewhere the Ravens can get out of that contract next year without too much of a hit. 

No, if the Ravens released Flacco after 2018, they'd still be looking at $16 million in dead money for the following season. Way too much. The cap burden numbers flip significantly by 2020, when Flacco is scheduled to carry a cap hit of some $28 million, but the Ravens would only be looking at $8 million in dead cap if they were to cut ties.

 

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Flacco is inconsistent, more to the point he is streaky.  He can go 3 for 12 in a first half and then turn around and hit 9 or 10 passes in a row.  It seems like he really needs to get in a rhythm.  I've never believed he was in the group of elite QBs of the league, but I've always seen him as a second tier guy.  Last couple of seasons he has probably been more in the third tier.  But honestly I think some of that is on the offensive coordinators here who have not played to his strengths, and some of it, especially this year, is due to the lack of quality receivers.  This year the Ravens had maybe the worst set of receivers I think they have ever had.  Their number one, Wallace, finished with 748 yards and 4 TDs.  To put that in perspective;  New Orleans Ted Ginn had 787 yards and 4 TDs as their number two, JuJu Smith-Schuster had 917 yards and 7 TDs as a rookie number 3, Kenny Stills for Miami had 847 yards and 6 TDs as a number two with Jay Cutler at QB,  Jermaine Kearse and Robby Anderson both had over 800 yards and 5/7 TDs with the Jets.  That's clearly a lot of number two receivers and some on bad teams that outplayed the Raven's top receiver.  When Steve Smith retired last year the Raven's FO failed to get a replacement.  The best they came up with was Maclin who was injured most of last year.  Flacco was horrible the first half of the Cincinnati game, but how many passes hit Mike Wallace right in the hands that he dropped?  You can't put the entire blame on Flacco when the talent on the receiving end is clearly inferior.  That's on a FO that keeps feeling the best way to build a top flight offense is to scour the dumpsters of other teams around the league.  

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13 hours ago, alienrace said:

Totally agree with all of this.

I'll add in a few other things too, though they may not be popular...

This season was one of the strangest of all.  Not just for the Ravens, but league-wide.  However, many fans have been very hypocritical.  They want sweeping changes, "blow it up", "fire everyone", the mantra all over the internet rings hollow to me.  They decry the lack of effort in the Cincy game, and I agree - there WAS a lack of effort, especially in the first half.  What I saw in the second half was the offense, in particular, Flacco, put the rest of team on it's back and took a lead, only to have the defense completely blow it, despite having the Bengals backed up at the 10 yard line, and later, nullifying a game ending interception with an idiotic penalty, and later giving up a 4th and 12 for a 49 yard TD.  Now we can blame the coaching for not having the team ready, but let's hold on a minute, ok?  If you were a Ravens player, and you saw what I saw - a half empty stadium - on a game that meant everything, just how much effort would you be putting forth?  If you're a fan who didn't show for the game, and you're going to criticize the effort by the players, maybe you should look in the mirror. 

I do think though, that this loss was very devastating to the organization and to Harbaugh.  Had they won, his legacy would have been cemented as a coach that got his team to the playoffs 7 out of 10 years, and he'd probably have been extended again.  He went from that to being squarely on the hot seat, all by one game, one play, in fact. 

I agree with a lot of what you say.  Blowing it all up or firing everyone rarely works.  Some teams do it every few years and always fail to improve.  But I do think the coaching staff and FO need to be held accountable.  If I was Biscotti I want to know why the team looked flat in the first half and why the defense keeps giving up leads late in games after all of the player investment that has been made in it.  It will be interesting to hear what Biscotti has to say in the state of the Ravens press conference.

I don't agree about the fans though.  The players have a certain accountability to the fans as far as the league being an entertainment product.  But once they get on the field, how many fans show up or what they do should not matter at all.  They have a responsibility to the organization that is paying their salaries.  They walked out on the field knowing that a win put them in the playoffs.  They didn't need any help, they only needed to take care of business against a team with no playoff chances.  They shouldn't need any other motivation than that.  The temperature was brutal and the game time was changed a week before hand.  The fans aren't being paid to show up, they are paying a lot of money to have the chance to show up.  The players get paid to put their best effort out regardless of the fans.  That didn't seem to be a best effort, imo.  Or maybe it was.  Maybe all of the people saying the Ravens were a lock and could be dangerous in the playoffs were over estimating the true talent on the team.  

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5 hours ago, mdrunning said:

No, if the Ravens released Flacco after 2018, they'd still be looking at $16 million in dead money for the following season. Way too much. The cap burden numbers flip significantly by 2020, when Flacco is scheduled to carry a cap hit of some $28 million, but the Ravens would only be looking at $8 million in dead cap if they were to cut ties.

 

Thanks for the correction. After reading what you wrote, I started thinking where I got my info from and now I remember it was from a friend. I should have fact checked his tail 

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3 hours ago, cprenegade said:

Flacco is inconsistent, more to the point he is streaky.  He can go 3 for 12 in a first half and then turn around and hit 9 or 10 passes in a row.  It seems like he really needs to get in a rhythm.  I've never believed he was in the group of elite QBs of the league, but I've always seen him as a second tier guy.  Last couple of seasons he has probably been more in the third tier.  But honestly I think some of that is on the offensive coordinators here who have not played to his strengths, and some of it, especially this year, is due to the lack of quality receivers.  This year the Ravens had maybe the worst set of receivers I think they have ever had.  Their number one, Wallace, finished with 748 yards and 4 TDs.  To put that in perspective;  New Orleans Ted Ginn had 787 yards and 4 TDs as their number two, JuJu Smith-Schuster had 917 yards and 7 TDs as a rookie number 3, Kenny Stills for Miami had 847 yards and 6 TDs as a number two with Jay Cutler at QB,  Jermaine Kearse and Robby Anderson both had over 800 yards and 5/7 TDs with the Jets.  That's clearly a lot of number two receivers and some on bad teams that outplayed the Raven's top receiver.  When Steve Smith retired last year the Raven's FO failed to get a replacement.  The best they came up with was Maclin who was injured most of last year.  Flacco was horrible the first half of the Cincinnati game, but how many passes hit Mike Wallace right in the hands that he dropped?  You can't put the entire blame on Flacco when the talent on the receiving end is clearly inferior.  That's on a FO that keeps feeling the best way to build a top flight offense is to scour the dumpsters of other teams around the league.  

Every wide receiver drops passes. That’s just a fact. We don’t lead the league in dropped passes. It’s just that this board seems to focus on one thing and then everyone piles on. I’m sure we will disagree on this but I think the reason the receivers put up bad numbers is because Flacco is their quarterback. I think it’s plain and simple that it’s Flacco’s fault. Wasn’t Flacco like 31st or something like that in passer rating the first half of the season? He also was last or close to last in yards per attempt and a multitude of other categories. The argument can be made that the reason is because the receivers are so bad and that’s why Flacco’s numbers were so bad. Well I say why did Flacco’s numbers increase so much the second half of the season? It’s all about Flacco’s inconsistency. It’s all mental with him in my opinion. Why does he play like Joe Montana in the playoffs? Why does he always have his best games in Pittsburgh? I think he had the worst passer rating ever or close to it vs San Diego in 2012 and then goes on to have one of the best or the best playoffs ever. I don’t expect him to have great games every game. Every quarterback has bad games but Flacco will have 10 bad games a season. Some of them are covered up by stats because he will finally start slinging it at the end of the game. It’s going to be interesting to see if Bisciotti calls out Flacco again this year

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, RavingManiac said:

Thanks for the correction. After reading what you wrote, I started thinking where I got my info from and now I remember it was from a friend. I should have fact checked his tail 

Correct - there is no upside to releasing or cutting him in the next two years.  Which is why I said succession planning through the draft with an eye for grooming someone for 2021 might be something the Ravens are and should be willing to undertake. I think the emotional scars of not making the playoffs are still fresh for a lot of people.  If you take a step back and look big picture - Joe Flacco has still never QB'd a losing season when he has been under center for a full 16 games.  Only Brady, Ben and Rodgers have QB'd more wins over the last decade, and only Brady has more overall playoff wins. He actually wins at a better clip than QBs like Rivers and Brees over the same time frame and who I believe are top-5 talents.

I know that 8-8 and 9-7 are abominations to the fanbase and seeking a scapegoat is a natural inclination.  Joe's play is an easy and visible target with or without his health issues.  He pulls the big paycheck.  However, finding the next franchise QB will not be an easy task, and rarely plug-n-play successful.  Teams like the Jets, Dolphins, Bills, Browns are into literally their second or third decade of trying to find a steady franchise QB that could lead them for a long window. The Titans spent 10 years trying to find a replacement for McNair, and had to bottom out at 3-13 to draft Mariota who looks to be that guy.  It is why Kirk Cousins is going to be one of the top paid QBs in the NFL this offseason. The supply of even mid-tier playoff caliber QBs far outweighs the demands.  I really don't think the Ravens would be close to 9-7 if they had to start a Ryan Mallett, Colt McCoy, Blaine Gabbert, Geno Smith or Brian Hoyer - which is generally the caliber of what is available if you cut Joe in attempt to save a few million for the salary cap (which would not work anyway because of the dead money hit that mdrunning cited).

Edited by RestonRaven

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58 minutes ago, RestonRaven said:

Correct - there is no upside to releasing or cutting him in the next two years.  Which is why I said succession planning through the draft with an eye for grooming someone for 2021 might be something the Ravens are and should be willing to undertake. I think the emotional scars of not making the playoffs are still fresh for a lot of people.  If you take a step back and look big picture - Joe Flacco has still never QB'd a losing season when he has been under center for a full 16 games.  Only Brady, Ben and Rodgers have QB'd more wins over the last decade, and only Brady has more overall playoff wins. He actually wins at a better clip than QBs like Rivers and Brees over the same time frame and who I believe are top-5 talents.

I know that 8-8 and 9-7 are abominations to the fanbase and seeking a scapegoat is a natural inclination.  Joe's play is an easy and visible target with or without his health issues.  He pulls the big paycheck.  However, finding the next franchise QB will not be an easy task, and rarely plug-n-play successful.  Teams like the Jets, Dolphins, Bills, Browns are into literally their second or third decade of trying to find a steady franchise QB that could lead them for a long window. The Titans spent 10 years trying to find a replacement for McNair, and had to bottom out at 3-13 to draft Mariota who looks to be that guy.  It is why Kirk Cousins is going to be one of the top paid QBs in the NFL this offseason. The supply of even mid-tier playoff caliber QBs far outweighs the demands.  I really don't think the Ravens would be close to 9-7 if they had to start a Ryan Mallett, Colt McCoy, Blaine Gabbert, Geno Smith or Brian Hoyer - which is generally the caliber of what is available if you cut Joe in attempt to save a few million for the salary cap (which would not work anyway because of the dead money hit that mdrunning cited).

Agree. Its tough to find a franchise qb. More reason they should start investing/drafting them this year on out and hope one hits paydirt!

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19 hours ago, RestonRaven said:

Ahhh - and therein lies the rub.  Trying to quantify blame in what really is the ultimate team sport.  If Joe plays just a little bit better coming out of the gate we win and go to the playoffs; if the defense plays a little bit better at the end of Pittsburgh, Chicago or Cincy we win and go to the playoffs; if Jeremy Maclin does not step out of bounds before catching a beautiful pass from Flacco at the end of the Pittsburgh game - Tucker probably kicks a chip shot game winner and we go to the playoffs; if Weddle goes for a tackle instead of a strip against Chicago in OT we win that game;  if Perriman doesn't bounce pick-6's to defenders; if Ozzie picked JuJu Smith- Schuster or Alvin Kamara instead of Tyus Bowser and on and on.  Heck you can go back to single plays last year - if CJ Mosley doesn't try to dive and extend a ball over the pylon and fumble it through the end zone we likely win that Washington game, and it doesn't come down to the Pittsburgh game to get in.

 

 

 

I don't have confidence that Ozzie's picks are giving them the best chance to win and neither is his overall personnel philosophy. 

If the Saint's mentality had been, hey, we have Mark Ingram, why use a high pick on another RB, or Pitt says, we have A. Brown and M. Bryant, why use a high pick on Smith-Schuster, neither team would be in the play-offs, IMO.  Even Jax-they have 3 primo WR's in Hearns, Robinson and Lee. They still draft Westbrook.  That kind of thinking/drafting is miles away from how Baltimore prioritizes player needs.

So now I look at the Raven's: Alex Collins is good, but they can't hang all the play making on his shoulders. I don't think they should rule out drafting another RB-C. McCaffrey would have been another no-brainer...

I don't know if their personnel scouts can be trusted either. Maybe there's a reason all these defensive "gems" fall into the third and fourth rounds...

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Posted (edited)

48 minutes ago, mikemor1 said:

I don't have confidence that Ozzie's picks are giving them the best chance to win and neither is his overall personnel philosophy. 

If the Saint's mentality had been, hey, we have Mark Ingram, why use a high pick on another RB, or Pitt says, we have A. Brown and M. Bryant, why use a high pick on Smith-Schuster, neither team would be in the play-offs, IMO.  Even Jax-they have 3 primo WR's in Hearns, Robinson and Lee. They still draft Westbrook.  That kind of thinking/drafting is miles away from how Baltimore prioritizes player needs.

So now I look at the Raven's: Alex Collins is good, but they can't hang all the play making on his shoulders. I don't think they should rule out drafting another RB-C. McCaffrey would have been another no-brainer...

I don't know if their personnel scouts can be trusted either. Maybe there's a reason all these defensive "gems" fall into the third and fourth rounds...

I can't say that I disagree with you.  Stanley & Humphrey have been pretty solid hits, but what are shaping up to be second and third round whiffs have really hurt. Hope some of these guys like Williams, Wormley, Correa and Kafusi ultimately flip the switch as they are still young in career. Not much to say about Perriman and Elam that has not already been covered.  My confidence is lacking as well.

Edited by RestonRaven

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1 hour ago, mikemor1 said:

I don't have confidence that Ozzie's picks are giving them the best chance to win and neither is his overall personnel philosophy. 

If the Saint's mentality had been, hey, we have Mark Ingram, why use a high pick on another RB, or Pitt says, we have A. Brown and M. Bryant, why use a high pick on Smith-Schuster, neither team would be in the play-offs, IMO.  Even Jax-they have 3 primo WR's in Hearns, Robinson and Lee. They still draft Westbrook.  That kind of thinking/drafting is miles away from how Baltimore prioritizes player needs.

So now I look at the Raven's: Alex Collins is good, but they can't hang all the play making on his shoulders. I don't think they should rule out drafting another RB-C. McCaffrey would have been another no-brainer...

I don't know if their personnel scouts can be trusted either. Maybe there's a reason all these defensive "gems" fall into the third and fourth rounds...

This board would lose its money mind if the Ravens drafted using your philosophy. It sounds like you would like the Ravens to use Jacksonville’s philosophy in drafting. Just a pure fantasy question here. Would you trade the Ravens front office for Jacksonville ? The difference between Jax front office and ours is we have two Super Bowls and many more playoff appearances. I bet we have 3 times as many playoff appearances and victories. We also have more playoff victories than the Saints and more Super Bowls. Jax have been so awfully for so many years. How can you like their front office over ours?

As for Mccafery being a no brainer, and after watching him play an entire season, I think the exact opposite of you. I think he would be a good 3rd round pick. He is like a Darren Sproles or a Danny Woodhead. 

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, RavingManiac said:

This board would lose its money mind if the Ravens drafted using your philosophy. It sounds like you would like the Ravens to use Jacksonville’s philosophy in drafting. Just a pure fantasy question here. Would you trade the Ravens front office for Jacksonville ? The difference between Jax front office and ours is we have two Super Bowls and many more playoff appearances. I bet we have 3 times as many playoff appearances and victories. We also have more playoff victories than the Saints and more Super Bowls. Jax have been so awfully for so many years. How can you like their front office over ours?

As for Mccafery being a no brainer, and after watching him play an entire season, I think the exact opposite of you. I think he would be a good 3rd round pick. He is like a Darren Sproles or a Danny Woodhead. 

1. I think the Jags have had some really solid drafts recently and it's starting to pay off. Keep in mind, I also referred to the Saints and the Steelers -they could even meet in this yrs SB.

2. I have confidence in Coughlin-getting rid of him was the Giant's biggest mistake-and his presence with the org. is signaling to veteran players that they are serious about winning. He brings a winning mentality.

3. I agree with Reston that although Stanley and Humphrey have been solid #1 recent picks, the following #2 and 3's have become invisible. So in essence, it's like they're picking a #1 and a #4 and it's caught up-whose fault is that if not Oz and scouts?

4. Regarding McCaffrey, I love Sproles to this day and Woodhead was a PLAYMAKER in his prime-he did pretty good when with the Pats.

5. The front office claimed they were going to get Flacco more weapons last year--Collins (thankfully), Maclin and Woodhead was who they got. And despite that, the offense started to come on towards the end.

6. Just have to hope that even though Harbaugh isn't making significant coaching changes that they get the message that they need legitimate WR's and at least another TE. I read Watson may retire.

Edited by mikemor1

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Something would be terribly wrong if the jags did not have some good drafts recently. They draft top 5 every year (that’s a guess). I mean if you just had 5 top 5 picks for five years in a row and nothing else then your team should be improved greatly just on those five picks alone. The Ravens have done more than the Saints. I’ll take the Ravens two Super Bowls and playoff record vs the Saints any day of the week. They have a great offense. In fact they have had a great offense for many years. Why do you think they don’t have more playoff wins or more Super Bowls than the Ravens? 

I do like Coughlin as well. I think he is going to be a huge asset. I think you will see Alex Smith in a jags uniform next year.

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1 hour ago, RavingManiac said:

Something would be terribly wrong if the jags did not have some good drafts recently. They draft top 5 every year (that’s a guess). I mean if you just had 5 top 5 picks for five years in a row and nothing else then your team should be improved greatly just on those five picks alone. The Ravens have done more than the Saints. I’ll take the Ravens two Super Bowls and playoff record vs the Saints any day of the week. They have a great offense. In fact they have had a great offense for many years. Why do you think they don’t have more playoff wins or more Super Bowls than the Ravens? 

I do like Coughlin as well. I think he is going to be a huge asset. I think you will see Alex Smith in a jags uniform next year.

1. If your premise about the Jags is correct, I give you the Browns- so drafting early is not automatic success with picks

2. I think they'll be a bidding war over Alex Smith between the Jags and the Jets who will pursue the same strategy: get Smith but draft a QB this year who can play under him for a year or two.

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I think Eli Manning will be the top consideration for Jacksonville with Coughlin there, and he would be stepping into a SB-caliber situation with some better QB play.

 

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If Alex Smith is indeed available, then the team which could offer the most is the Browns--who own the No. 1 and No. 4 picks in next April's draft. You wonder, however, how much Cleveland would be willing to surrender for a 34-year-old QB in the final year of his contract.

A team like the Jags, should they move on from Bortles, would make more sense since steady quarterback play would go a long way toward pushing that team to the NFL's upper echelons. Minnesota is also a possibility if they don't think Case Keenum is the long-term answer.

Reports are that the Chiefs aren't actively seeking trade partners, but if teams come calling, they'll certainly listen. 

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I do believe the Jags would be a good spot for Smith.

I doubt they trade for him though, especially when guys like Cousins, Manning and Taylor will be free agents.

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3 hours ago, Pickle20 said:

I think Eli Manning will be the top consideration for Jacksonville with Coughlin there, and he would be stepping into a SB-caliber situation with some better QB play.

 

I originally thought Manning would go to Jax but I bet he stays in NY.

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On 1/6/2018 at 2:45 PM, alienrace said:

If you were a Ravens player, and you saw what I saw - a half empty stadium - on a game that meant everything, just how much effort would you be putting forth?  If you're a fan who didn't show for the game, and you're going to criticize the effort by the players, maybe you should look in the mirror. 

I think this is overly dramatic. I don't require an office full of people to put forth my best effort with a goal in mind. Millionaire athletes should not either. 

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4 hours ago, Pickle20 said:

I do believe the Jags would be a good spot for Smith.

I doubt they trade for him though, especially when guys like Cousins, Manning and Taylor will be free agents.

I think Cousins is headed to Denver, Manning and Taylor stay put

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15 minutes ago, mikemor1 said:

I think Cousins is headed to Denver, Manning and Taylor stay put

Yes, Denver figures to go hard after Cousins if Washington doesn't sign or franchise him again.

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4 hours ago, Rael said:

I think this is overly dramatic. I don't require an office full of people to put forth my best effort with a goal in mind. Millionaire athletes should not either. 

Maybe - but - crowd noise is also a factor, in causing difficulties for opposing offenses.  And there is no denying that an energized crowed often energizes the team they are rooting for.

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