mdrunning

Black Monday Thread

97 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

As is the case every Monday following the end of the regular season, heads have already started roll as teams look to "move in a different direction."

Thus far, the guillotine has dropped on four head coaches, with several more possibly to follow.

(Full Disclosure: The following was compiled by scouring numerous sources, such as SI, ESPN, and others, plus some of my own less informed opinions.:))

Oakland - Most coaches don't announce their own firings, but Jack Del Rio informed the media of his termination this weekend. No official word from the Raiders, as of yet, but if Del Rio is out, they're rumored to be in all-in on Jon Gruden in a deal that could include a small ownership stake.

Indianapolis - Chuck Pagano--to the surprise of few--has been let go by the Colts, instantly triggering talk of his coming back to Baltimore to reassume his old gig as defensive coordinator should Dean Pees indeed retire (according to Jeff Zrebiec of The Sun, Pees plans to inform players at a morning meeting today that he is stepping down). New England OC Josh McDaniels is said to be high on the Colts' wish list, but then again, he's high on just about everyone's wish list. There are even rumors of the Colts going hard after Jim Harbaugh, now at Michigan, but that to me doesn't sound like a good fit. Harbaugh will want complete control, and Irsays do not cede power willingly.

Chicago - John Fox is out after three godawful seasons with the Bears. Potential replacements are (again) said to be McDaniels, Minnesota's Fritz Shurmur and Philly QB coach John DeFillippo.

Cincinnati - Marvin Lewis, whose contract is up with the Bengals, is not expected to return, but the team is not expected to make an announcement by today. It would seem foolish to do otherwise, it seems, at this point. In order to retain Lewis, the Bengals would have to make a multi-year commitment, something they didn't want to do in the first place. The Bengals will reportedly look more toward internal candidates when they formally cut ties with Lewis.

Detroit - Jim Caldwell is out despite being, at 35-28, the Lions' winningest non-interim head coach in the Super Bowl era (whatever that means). But he's also managed to put himself on the hot seat several times with the team's inconsistent play. There was the 1-7 start in 2015, which led to several organizational firings, then last year when the Lions held a two-game lead with three to play, lost all three, and were ousted by Seattle in the wildcard game. They had a chance on Thanksgiving Day this year to move within one game of the division lead against the Vikings, but lost that game, then got thumped by the Ravens, and finally in Week 16, were beaten by the Bengals to end whatever playoff hopes they had.

Patriots defensive coordinator Matt Patricia has been mentioned as a possible candidate, and the Lions have reportedly asked for permission to speak with Houston DC Mike Vrabel.

Others

It's been assumed that Bruce Ariens would step down in Arizona after the season, but so far no word. The Cardinals are an aging team, and Ariens, as one of the oldest coaches in the league, might not want to be part of an overhaul at this point.

Steve Spagnuolo is the interim coach for now with the football Giants, but he isn't head coaching material. The Giants need someone who can either breathe new life into Eli Manning, or groom his successor. Spagnuolo isn't the guy to do that. Philadelphia DC Jim Schwartz is said to be the odds-on favorite as new head coach.

Vance Joseph is on thin ice in Denver following a complete collapse, but John Elway has already been through two head coaches (not all of his own doing) and doesn't want the reputation of an executive with an itchy trigger finger. Joseph was his hire, and he's only been at the helm one year, so it's unlikely Elway will want to spend the early part of the new year looking for another head coach. The Broncos first need to solve their quarterback carousel before making any major personnel changes.

 

 

 

Edited by mdrunning

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3 minutes ago, Eastside Terp said:

Need to add Harbaugh to that list.....

Harbaugh's job is safe. Likely Marty, too, given Pees' formally announced retirement.

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I'm sure it is but Harbaugh judgement regarding his hires is certainly in question .....

I don't know how anyone will be able to listen to him at the podium and take him seriously ......

I does seems that support for Harbaugh comes down to whether or not you think the injuries were an legit excuse for the season and you give him a pass based on that ......

I dont, despite the injuries they had a team with nothing to play for at 4th and 12 with less then a minute to play to get into the playoffs and his team choked big time .....

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I think Harbaugh is safe for at least next year.

I agree that he needs some new faces on his coaching staff: If they could get Pagano back as the DC and lure Kubiak back as the OC, I think there would be big changes on the field, even with the players they have. Apart from that, you really have to look at their WR coach-he can't develop squat. 

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5 minutes ago, mikemor1 said:

I think Harbaugh is safe for at least next year.

I agree that he needs some new faces on his coaching staff: If they could get Pagano back as the DC and lure Kubiak back as the OC, I think there would be big changes on the field, even with the players they have. Apart from that, you really have to look at their WR coach-he can't develop squat. 

agree with everything here. Kubiak and Pagano seem like a dream team of coaches. Kubiak can squeeze the most out of Flacco while Pagano could help iron out the Defense's issues. 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, mikemor1 said:

I think Harbaugh is safe for at least next year.

I agree that he needs some new faces on his coaching staff: If they could get Pagano back as the DC and lure Kubiak back as the OC, I think there would be big changes on the field, even with the players they have. Apart from that, you really have to look at their WR coach-he can't develop squat. 

That scenario isn't likely if Harbaugh's only safe for the coming year. In order to lure the really attractive candidates, it's best for the head coach to have job security. Kubiak came here the first time a year after Harbaugh had signed a new four-year extension with the Ravens. If he does indeed want to become a coordinator again, he's not likely to accept it if  he may be out of a job in a year's time. 

Pagano I could see, particularly if he wants to build up his bona fides for another head coaching gig. Should the Ravens part ways with Marty, I'd guess Greg Roman gets elevated to that post.

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Guys .... you ever hear the phrase 'making chicken salad out of chicken poop'?

IMHO maybe they should be looking at replacing Ozzie. Yes, he is a FANTASTIC finder of good defensive talent....but outside of Flaco, Collins, and Heap. Who has he found offensively.

Face it....especially with receivers....flat out failure. The ones that show potential 'break' all the time and the ones that don't can't catch a cold...at least not for top notch NFL standards.

IMHO.

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4 minutes ago, mdrunning said:

That scenario isn't likely if Harbaugh's only safe for the coming year. In order to lure the really attractive candidates, it's best for the head coach to have job security. Kubiak came here the first time a year after Harbaugh had signed a new four-year extension with the Ravens. If he does indeed want to become a coordinator again, he's not likely to accept it if  he may be out of a job in a year's time. 

Pagano I could see, particularly if he wants to build up his bona fides for another head coaching gig. Should the Ravens part ways with Marty, I'd guess Greg Roman gets elevated to that post.

I don't think Pagano will be offered another head coaching job next year so I think he could come back to Baltimore.

I agree that Kubiak might be a reach but he stated he doesn't want to be a head coach again and even if Harbaugh got fired in 2019, Kubiak would be mighty hard to let go.

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3 minutes ago, Guido2 said:

Guys .... you ever hear the phrase 'making chicken salad out of chicken poop'?

IMHO maybe they should be looking at replacing Ozzie. Yes, he is a FANTASTIC finder of good defensive talent....but outside of Flaco, Collins, and Heap. Who has he found offensively.

Face it....especially with receivers....flat out failure. The ones that show potential 'break' all the time and the ones that don't can't catch a cold...at least not for top notch NFL standards.

IMHO.

If they're not getting rid of Harbaugh next year, Ozzie is also safe, also IMHO.  :)

 

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Just now, mikemor1 said:

I don't think Pagano will be offered another head coaching job next year so I think he could come back to Baltimore.

I agree that Kubiak might be a reach but he stated he doesn't want to be a head coach again and even if Harbaugh got fired in 2019, Kubiak would be mighty hard to let go.

You may be right regarding Pagano, but then, like Kubiak, is he going to want to come here if Harbaugh might possibly be gone after just one season? 

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12 minutes ago, poefolks said:

agree with everything here. Kubiak and Pagano seem like a dream team of coaches. Kubiak can squeeze the most out of Flacco while Pagano could help iron out the Defense's issues. 

 

 

 

If we need the longshot of pulling together a dream team of coordinators to make something happen, why do we need harbaugh?.....

What does he bring to the table? ......

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Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, mikemor1 said:

I don't think Pagano will be offered another head coaching job next year so I think he could come back to Baltimore.

I agree that Kubiak might be a reach but he stated he doesn't want to be a head coach again and even if Harbaugh got fired in 2019, Kubiak would be mighty hard to let go.

They might not want to, but generally to lure in a quality coach your need to let him choose his own staff. Such a coach might choose to retain Kubiak, but can Kubiak bank on that?

The other issue with Kubiak is his health. He really, really needs to avoid stress at this point to literally prolong his life. Pagano has a similar problem, in that his cancer could return at any point. Cancer often recurs. Leukemia is often beatable and the fact that he's gone about ten years with no relapse is encouraging, but...

Edited by Evil Yoda

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Just now, Eastside Terp said:

If we need the longshot of pulling together a dream team of coordinators to make something happen, why do we need harbaugh?.....

What does he bring to the table? ......

He's well liked and people seem to want to work for him, otherwise I"m not sure-but we'll see if they even look outside the organization for anyone-and that could be the biggest liability of keeping Harbaugh.

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4 minutes ago, mikemor1 said:

I don't think Pagano will be offered another head coaching job next year so I think he could come back to Baltimore.

I agree that Kubiak might be a reach but he stated he doesn't want to be a head coach again and even if Harbaugh got fired in 2019, Kubiak would be mighty hard to let go.

Ahhhhhhhh....you have been reading listening to Trumps statements. :lol:

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2 minutes ago, Eastside Terp said:

If we need the longshot of pulling together a dream team of coordinators to make something happen, why do we need harbaugh?.....

What does he bring to the table? ......

At this point Harbaugh isn't bringing that much to the table but stability, however, stability is very under rated imo. If we can surround harbaugh (or he can surround himself) with the right team- he can win. If not he will be gone after next year.

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1 minute ago, poefolks said:

At this point Harbaugh isn't bringing that much to the table but stability, however, stability is very under rated imo. If we can surround harbaugh (or he can surround himself) with the right team- he can win. If not he will be gone after next year.

I think that pretty much says it all...

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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, mikemor1 said:

If they're not getting rid of Harbaugh next year, Ozzie is also safe, also IMHO.  :)

 

You are probably correct on that point.

A thought just occured to me......does anyone else see some similiar 'things' about Billicks time here and Harbough? Funny Billick had about 10 years and guess what Harbough is around 10 years.

But that is not the only thing ...like the up and down pattern....early success Super Bowls and such....then 'getting close' and failing subsequently to get into playoffs and such. 

Both had fairly consistent good or above average defenses.....but the Offense has always been spotty at best.

IMO

 

Ohhh and lets face it.....explosive offense puts seats in the seats....not defense in todays NFL.

Back in the 60's Broadway Joe Jet's had adequate defense at best. It was the fan's knowledge that at any time even if down a ton of points Joe had to tools to bring them to a win.

Not so with the Ravens now or ever.

Edited by Guido2

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where do you think Jack Del Rio lands?

and will Marv Lewis retire altogether?

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What do milk and head coaches have in common? They both have expiration dates. There are long tenured head coaches who should have gone before this (Trippy and Marvin come to mind) - I think ten years is about the maximum, then it's time for a refresh.

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52 minutes ago, Eastside Terp said:

 

I does seems that support for Harbaugh comes down to whether or not you think the injuries were an legit excuse for the season and you give him a pass based on that ......

 

The players saved Harbaugh's job the last 4 weeks.

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4 minutes ago, mikemor1 said:

where do you think Jack Del Rio lands?

and will Marv Lewis retire altogether?

Considering that the Raiders gave him a four-year extension prior to the 2017 season, Del Rio could spend the next three years just cashing Raider paychecks at his local bank. 

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6 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

The players saved Harbaugh's job the last 4 weeks.

I'm inclined to agree, but I also believe Bisciotti's thoughts were a tad more sanguine before the kick-off of yesterday's game. 

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9 minutes ago, Evil Yoda said:

What do milk and head coaches have in common? They both have expiration dates. There are long tenured head coaches who should have gone before this (Trippy and Marvin come to mind) - I think ten years is about the maximum, then it's time for a refresh.

Excellent! Good pun.

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4 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

The players saved Harbaugh's job the last 4 weeks.

And even IF all players on the roster remained miraculously healthy the entire season, they still would have lost at the end of the year because there is  no talent on the team with the possible exception of Wallace that pose a long ball threat. Other teams that enter the playoffs have up to 3WR's that can catch the long ball:  Eagles, Vikes, Falcons and yes Pitt- what do they all have in common? Guys they can go long to.

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