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mrdeltoid

California welcome felons and illegals!

80 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, jdsample said:

I don't care what is related to the felonies committed.  Bonnie & Clyde's bank robbery and murder spree "relates" to them not being able to get an oil well.  

As to your second point, tell that to all the black families driven out of Watts by central American gang violence.  

He continues to evade and deflect the issue that obtaining and using false official documents is illegal and in most cases a felony, which is ok, by him, i guess.

Even in a court of law, a witness or suspect once proven to be unreliable is considered to be unreliable in any further testimony. 

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3 minutes ago, blowboatbethesda said:

Thank you for proving my point, the law is the law as it is applicable to you as you see it, if and when it applies to you, comrade.  And your false theory that illegals are paying "billions" into SS is hilarious. Billions into their home countries, perhaps, but not here. 

You refuse to face facts and denigrate people who are trying to survive - people with  whom you are statistically safer than with your own fellow citizens.

Why do you think that is?

 

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5 minutes ago, jdsample said:

Let me get this straight.  They are more than willing to commit felonies but if we bend over and give them what they want they will model their lives after Ward Cleaver?  Are you sure?  Maybe we should open the bank vaults so there will be no more bank robberies?  Eliminate auto insurance requirements and DUI laws and that would result in a lot less crime too!

If you give them paperwork to work here, they dont need fake IDs.

Straight enough for you?

Interestingly, Paul Ryan made the point the other day that we need to be producing more babies if we want to save Social Security.

The solution right in front of us, but you'd rather throw them in jail or deport them.

Why is that? 

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1 minute ago, hst2 said:

If you give them paperwork to work here, they dont need fake IDs.

Straight enough for you?

Interestingly, Paul Ryan made the point the other day that we need to be producing more babies if we want to save Social Security.

The solution right in front of us, but you'd rather throw them in jail or deport them.

Why is that? 

No one needs to worry about drunk driving if we abolish those laws.  Straight enough for you?  

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1 hour ago, blowboatbethesda said:

Thank you for proving my point, the law is the law as it is applicable to you as you see it, if and when it applies to you, comrade.  And your false theory that illegals are paying "billions" into SS is hilarious. Billions into their home countries, perhaps, but not here. 

More recently, he has also washed trucks, often working as much as 70 hours a week, earning $8.50 to $12.75 an hour.

Not surprisingly, Mr. Martínez, 28, has not given much thought to Social Security's long-term financial problems. But Mr. Martínez -- who comes from the state of Oaxaca in southern Mexico and hiked for two days through the desert to enter the United States near Tecate, some 20 miles east of Tijuana -- contributes more than most Americans to the solvency of the nation's public retirement system.

Last year, Mr. Martínez paid about $2,000 toward Social Security and $450 for Medicare through payroll taxes withheld from his wages. Yet unlike most Americans, who will receive some form of a public pension in retirement and will be eligible for Medicare as soon as they turn 65, Mr. Martínez is not entitled to benefits.

He belongs to a big club. As the debate over Social Security heats up, the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.

While it has been evident for years that illegal immigrants pay a variety of taxes, the extent of their contributions to Social Security is striking: the money added up to about 10 percent of last year's surplus -- the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it doles out in pension benefits. Moreover, the money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration's projections.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/illegal-immigrants-are-bolstering-social-security-with-billions.html

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28 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

More recently, he has also washed trucks, often working as much as 70 hours a week, earning $8.50 to $12.75 an hour.

Not surprisingly, Mr. Martínez, 28, has not given much thought to Social Security's long-term financial problems. But Mr. Martínez -- who comes from the state of Oaxaca in southern Mexico and hiked for two days through the desert to enter the United States near Tecate, some 20 miles east of Tijuana -- contributes more than most Americans to the solvency of the nation's public retirement system.

Last year, Mr. Martínez paid about $2,000 toward Social Security and $450 for Medicare through payroll taxes withheld from his wages. Yet unlike most Americans, who will receive some form of a public pension in retirement and will be eligible for Medicare as soon as they turn 65, Mr. Martínez is not entitled to benefits.

He belongs to a big club. As the debate over Social Security heats up, the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.

While it has been evident for years that illegal immigrants pay a variety of taxes, the extent of their contributions to Social Security is striking: the money added up to about 10 percent of last year's surplus -- the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it doles out in pension benefits. Moreover, the money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration's projections.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/illegal-immigrants-are-bolstering-social-security-with-billions.html

I've made this argument here before. 

With the surplus of folks my age (baby bombers), and the shortage of replacement workers from our progeny, why would you deport workers who are contributing to the honey pot? The answer is obvious to me, but I don't bow to the dogma of homogeneity. 

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On 1/2/2018 at 2:06 PM, Marshan Man said:

This whole country is one big prank  on the rest of the world. 

The rest of the world has open borders, right?  Hop on a flight!

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On 1/2/2018 at 5:29 PM, hst2 said:

It unfortunate because it serves to brand all undocumented immigrants as criminals, even felons, when statistics tell us they are more law-abiding than citizens are.

Its dehumanizing and unfair to strip the dignity from an entire group of people.

First, there is no "fortune" involved.  These are deliberate actions which are not the result of happenstance or luck,  

And it is patently false to claim a sign that welcomes felons automatically brands an entire group of people as felons.  

It is also patently false that these people (who break the law and commit a felony when they use fake federal documents) are more law abiding.  I await your link showing that illegal immigrants are more than 18% of the population when they make up 18% of the prison population.  How do you claim with a straight face that a group of people are more law abiding when all of them committed a felony with falsified documents, and then a fifth of them committed other felonies that put them in prison except when Jerry Brown decides to spring them out to prey on the general population again.

Of course I am not claiming all illegals are evil.  But it is ridiculous for you to 1) lump them into a group, and 2) claim they are as a group more virtuous than American citizens when that is demonstrably false.  

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2 hours ago, jdsample said:

First, there is no "fortune" involved.  These are deliberate actions which are not the result of happenstance or luck,  

And it is patently false to claim a sign that welcomes felons automatically brands an entire group of people as felons.  

It is also patently false that these people (who break the law and commit a felony when they use fake federal documents) are more law abiding.  I await your link showing that illegal immigrants are more than 18% of the population when they make up 18% of the prison population.  How do you claim with a straight face that a group of people are more law abiding when all of them committed a felony with falsified documents, and then a fifth of them committed other felonies that put them in prison except when Jerry Brown decides to spring them out to prey on the general population again.

Of course I am not claiming all illegals are evil.  But it is ridiculous for you to 1) lump them into a group, and 2) claim they are as a group more virtuous than American citizens when that is demonstrably false.  

This is just sad. Your phony arguments have been demolished. Why persist?

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On 1/2/2018 at 8:03 PM, EGoldstein said:

What difference would it make?

so no CA official denied CA is a sanctuary state?

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19 hours ago, hst2 said:

And as I said, this crime is only committed because they lack paperwork. Take away that problem, and there is no crime.

And why do they lack paperwork?

How is it that over the last 180+ years millions of people have come to this country, gotten the proper paperwork, established residence and become citizens legally but this latest crowd can't seem to pull that off?

Me thinks in many cases the don't have the proper paperwork because they don't apply for the proper paperwork.

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14 minutes ago, VOSA said:

And why do they lack paperwork?

How is it that over the last 180+ years millions of people have come to this country, gotten the proper paperwork, established residence and become citizens legally but this latest crowd can't seem to pull that off?

Me thinks in many cases the don't have the proper paperwork because they don't apply for the proper paperwork.

Or as long as some states don't seek or ask for proper paperwork they don't care to.

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19 minutes ago, VOSA said:

And why do they lack paperwork?

How is it that over the last 180+ years millions of people have come to this country, gotten the proper paperwork, established residence and become citizens legally but this latest crowd can't seem to pull that off?

Me thinks in many cases the don't have the proper paperwork because they don't apply for the proper paperwork.

Or maybe the requirements have changed over the years.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/09/30/how-u-s-immigration-laws-and-rules-have-changed-through-history/

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21 minutes ago, Baltimatt said:

No maybe about it, the requirements have changed over the years.

And over the years immigrants have been able to adapt to the changes and establish legal residence here and become citizens.

So I'll ask again, how come this latest crowd can't do the same thing?

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, VOSA said:

And why do they lack paperwork?

How is it that over the last 180+ years millions of people have come to this country, gotten the proper paperwork, established residence and become citizens legally but this latest crowd can't seem to pull that off?

Me thinks in many cases the don't have the proper paperwork because they don't apply for the proper paperwork.

You clearly dont know snything about the history of immigration in this country.

Jeff Sessions praised the Immigration Act of 1924

Quote

The 1924 immigration law, known as the Johnson-Reed Act, drastically limited immigration and made permanent restrictions designed to keep out Southern and Eastern Europeans, particularly Italians and Jews, Africans, and Middle Easterners, barring Asian immigration entirely.

When the law passed, its primary Senate author, Rhode Island Senator David A. Reed, expressed relief in The New York Times, writing that “the racial composition of America at the time is thus made permanent.”

“I don’t know any historian who would tell you the 1920s law wasn’t a racist law. That was what it was all about. They didn’t try to hide that,” said David Reimers, a professor of history at New York University. The national origin restrictions in the 1924 law were not fully lifted until the passage of the 1965 Nationality and Immigration Act.

Link

And like the racists of the turn of the century, the current administration uses eugenics to guide their immigration policies today

Quote

One of Trump’s national security officials, Michael Anton, wrote an essay against immigration in which he argued: “‘Diversity’ is not ‘our strength;’ it’s a source of weakness, tension, and disunion.” Immigrants hurt the economy, Anton wrote, ignoring fact. True to eugenic orthodoxy, he insisted that communities are “de-Americanized” by immigrants.

It gets worse. Trump appointed Julie Kirchner to serve as ombudsman of the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. Previously, Kirchner was the executive director of the Federation for American Immigration Reform — an anti-immigration group whose founder, John Tanton, espoused eugenic views. “Do we leave it to individuals to decide that they are the intelligent ones who should have more kids?” Tanton once wrote. “And more troublesome, what about the less intelligent, who logically should have less. Who is going to break the bad news to them?”

Eugenicists would argue that Trump and Tanton are merely applying science to human social problems. But science and history show that eugenics is just racism, dressed up in a suit and tie. Trump’s move against Dreamers is more of the same. Arguments about the economy and public safety do not justify the decision, but eugenics explains it.

Link

A better question is why does your side demonize these undocumented immigrants when many of them are supporting their communities and our country?

A better question is why not give them paperwork?

The sad answer is, because our policies are hamstrung by those, including our pathetic president, espousing a racist ideology.

Edited by hst2

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20 hours ago, hst2 said:

You refuse to face facts and denigrate people who are trying to survive - people with  whom you are statistically safer than with your own fellow citizens.

Why do you think that is?

 

I think you believe that because you are severely misinformed.  When will you answer the question?  Are 18% of people residing in America illegal aliens?  Because that is the percentage of illegals make up in prison for crimes above and beyond jumping the border and using false documents.  

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11 hours ago, hst2 said:

This is just sad. Your phony arguments have been demolished. Why persist?

Link?  Or is this post intended to be a white flag?  

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18 hours ago, bmore_ken said:

More recently, he has also washed trucks, often working as much as 70 hours a week, earning $8.50 to $12.75 an hour.

Not surprisingly, Mr. Martínez, 28, has not given much thought to Social Security's long-term financial problems. But Mr. Martínez -- who comes from the state of Oaxaca in southern Mexico and hiked for two days through the desert to enter the United States near Tecate, some 20 miles east of Tijuana -- contributes more than most Americans to the solvency of the nation's public retirement system.

Last year, Mr. Martínez paid about $2,000 toward Social Security and $450 for Medicare through payroll taxes withheld from his wages. Yet unlike most Americans, who will receive some form of a public pension in retirement and will be eligible for Medicare as soon as they turn 65, Mr. Martínez is not entitled to benefits.

He belongs to a big club. As the debate over Social Security heats up, the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.

While it has been evident for years that illegal immigrants pay a variety of taxes, the extent of their contributions to Social Security is striking: the money added up to about 10 percent of last year's surplus -- the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it doles out in pension benefits. Moreover, the money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration's projections.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/illegal-immigrants-are-bolstering-social-security-with-billions.html

Thank you for trying Ken but some people will never believe this.

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11 minutes ago, jdsample said:

Link?  Or is this post intended to be a white flag?  

You must really be bored. :lol:

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1 minute ago, mrsmlh said:

Thank you for trying Ken but some people will never believe this.

Oh trust me, I know that. 

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9 minutes ago, jdsample said:

I think you believe that because you are severely misinformed.  When will you answer the question?  Are 18% of people residing in America illegal aliens?  Because that is the percentage of illegals make up in prison for crimes above and beyond jumping the border and using false documents.  

I have provided the links that support my points. 

Your argument is that undocumented immigrants are criminals because there is about 50,000 of them in federal custody.  Meanwhile we have a national prison population of over 2 million. But because they are disproportionately represented in federal prisons, you want to argue that they are more criminal. The iverall criminal statistucs contradict your argument.

But even then, the reason most of these people are in federal prison is not because they killed anyone or robbed anyone or did anyone any harm. They are in prison because they got caught trying to create a better, safer life for themselves and their families.

It is so sad and rather pathetic that you feel compelled to make these folks out to be dangerous criminals when many of them simply got caught trying to survive.

 

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1 minute ago, mrsmlh said:

Thank you for trying Ken but some people will never believe this.

There are many anecdotes to be had of good people breaking our laws.  

But we still have 18% of prison inmates are illegal immigrants who committed felonies.  Are 18% of US residents illegal aliens?  

So what is good for middle class families?  Our compassion for people who have no respect for our laws seems to supersede compassion for American workers.  We are willing to undercut their wages, displace them from their jobs, and populate their neighbors with a disproportionate number of felons with no desire to be American.  

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

You must really be bored. :lol:

Only by hst2.  

 

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6 minutes ago, hst2 said:

I have provided the links that support my points. 

Your argument is that undocumented immigrants are criminals because there is about 50,000 of them in federal custody.  Meanwhile we have a national prison population of over 2 million. But because they are disproportionately represented in federal prisons, you want to argue that they are more criminal. The iverall criminal statistucs contradict your argument.

But even then, the reason most of these people are in federal prison is not because they killed anyone or robbed anyone or did anyone any harm. They are in prison because they got caught trying to create a better, safer life for themselves and their families.

It is so sad and rather pathetic that you feel compelled to make these folks out to be dangerous criminals when many of them simply got caught trying to survive.

 

As have I provided links. 

And the bottom line is you support people committing felonies, and I don't.  

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7 hours ago, boink said:

so no CA official denied CA is a sanctuary state?

Why would anyone legitimize a parody?  You do understand it was a fake sign, right?  

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