hst2

Does the White Working Class Really Vote Against Its Own Interests?

33 posts in this topic

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...Trump has...arguably more than any other candidate for president in the last hundred years (excepting third-party outliers like Strom Thurmond and George Wallace), played to the purely psychological benefits of being white. From his racially-laden exhortations about black crime in Chicago and Latino gangs seemingly everywhere, to his attacks on an American-born federal judge of Mexican parentage and Muslim gold star parents, he has paid the white majority with redemption and revanchism. Trump might be increasing economic inequality, but at least the working-class whites feel like they belong in Trump’s America. He urged them to privilege race over class when they entered their polling stations.

...Trump swept almost every white demographic group, forging a “broad white coalition that ran the gamut from Joe the Dishwasher to Joe the Plumber to Joe the Banker.” It’s not just blue-collar white people who seem blithely willing to sacrifice economic rationality for racial solidarity. After all, it arguably took a special kind of stupid for upper-middle class suburbanites in high-tax states to support a party that just raised their taxes. (No, this wasn’t a bait-and-switch. The GOP leadership has talked openly about elminiating deducations for state and local taxes since 2014.) Unless, that is, you account for the wages of whiteness.

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this is not a new phenomenon....this has been taking place since probably since just after the depression....H.L. Mencken was spot on when he stated " Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."  Fear of those who don't look like us is a great motivating factor for voting against your interests, especially if you are too intellectually lazy to think for yourself and rely on others to tell you how to vote. The giant orange dotard is the full manifestation of what happens when people give in to irrational fears....

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maybe those that seemingly vote "against their own self-interest" are actually quite magnanimous in doing so, voting in favor of those that will try to put forth policies that will benefit the country and economy as a whole rather than just their own narrow lot. 

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People who voted for Trump and gets screwed I have no sympathy for. Thomas Frank's book What's the Matter with Kansas reminds me of Trump voters.

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1 hour ago, hst2 said:

White voters aren’t monolithic and there is no class system in the US.  The failed political candidate, affluent white columnist who wrote this speaks for you, but not every white person with a job.  

 

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Posted (edited)

"After all, it arguably took a special kind of stupid for upper-middle class suburbanites in high-tax states to support a party that just raised their taxes. (No, this wasn’t a bait-and-switch. The GOP leadership has talked openly about elminiating deducations for state and local taxes since 2014.) Unless, that is, you account for the wages of whiteness."

Going by the myth the 'tax cuts must be paid for' then sticking it to the upper middle class in high tax states should be considered voting in ones self interest.   You know, when you are running out of other peoples money.

 

hst2:  when did you start caring about 'white' people?   I though you claimed they were invented to oppress minorities.  

Edited by SemiAuto

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Posted (edited)

Well it was LBJ, one of our nation's most racist presidents, who famously said,... "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't noticed you're picking his pockets. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you!" - Lyndon B. Johnson

Exactly what the orange orangutan and the republicans are doing now with all their racially based divisive and hateful rhetoric and behavior,... giving the lowest white man somebody to look down on. And damn if the lowest of white man ain't emptying his pockets for the republicans,... with great enthusiasm! Kinda funny,... lol. So yeah,.... I'd say there are a lot of working whites voting against their own interests. Absolutely!

Edited by ericpd

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7 hours ago, Saticon3 said:

maybe those that seemingly vote "against their own self-interest" are actually quite magnanimous in doing so, voting in favor of those that will try to put forth policies that will benefit the country and economy as a whole rather than just their own narrow lot. 

Yes, the cry to have their taxes raised was heard 'round the world.

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5 hours ago, ericpd said:

Well it was LBJ, one of our nation's racist presidents, who famously said,... "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't noticed you're picking his pockets. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you!" - Lyndon B. Johnson

Basically what the republicans and the orange orangutan are doing now with all their divisive and hateful behavior,... giving the lowest white man somebody to look down on. And damn if he ain't emptying his pockets for the repubs. Kinda funny,... lol. So yeah,.... I'd say there are a lot of working whites voting against their own interests. Absolutely!

From the article:

"Decades before so many white working-class citizens of Pennsylvania, Michigan, Ohio and Wisconsin—to say nothing of Alabama, West Virginia and Mississippi—cast their lot with a party that endeavors to raise their taxes and gut their health care, Du Bois identified the problem: Some wages aren’t denominated in hard currency. They carry a psychological payoff—even a spiritual one."

interestingly, one poster here argues that Reconstruction was bad because it disenfranchised some white voters as punishment for fighting for the Confederacy, so he speaks fondly of its ending. Although, many poor whites became disenfranchised during the Jim Crow era that followed. The only difference is that, in the era he despises, Blacks and whites were legal equal, in the era he prefers, whites were legally superior.

And this is someone who lives in the modern world!

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8 hours ago, RileyMartin said:

White voters aren’t monolithic and there is no class system in the US.  The failed political candidate, affluent white columnist who wrote this speaks for you, but not every white person with a job.  

 

Class is deeply embedded in the USA. It is all around you, attached and interacting strongly with race, economic-status and educational level. Just because class considerations aren't formalized into clear rules of behavior in the USA doesn't mean it is not there. 

Moreover, the USA has seen significant regression in social mobility in the last few decades compared to many 3rd world and 1st world nations. 

Trump will scam the shirts off his "base." They will just roll-over and accept it like some doomed honky-tonk character in a Johnny Cash song.

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9 hours ago, Saticon3 said:

maybe those that seemingly vote "against their own self-interest" are actually quite magnanimous in doing so, voting in favor of those that will try to put forth policies that will benefit the country and economy as a whole rather than just their own narrow lot. 

the people in North Korea do the same thing...all must sacrifice for the Dear Leader....you are advocating for the same type of mentality....no thanks, I'll pass...

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10 minutes ago, dogstarman said:

Class is deeply embedded in the USA. It is all around you, attached and interacting strongly with race, economic-status and educational level. Just because class considerations aren't formalized into clear rules of behavior in the USA doesn't mean it is not there. 

Moreover, the USA has seen significant regression in social mobility in the last few decades compared to many 3rd world and 1st world nations. 

Trump will scam the shirts off his "base." They will just roll-over and accept it like some doomed honky-tonk character in a Johnny Cash song.

The billionaire gives voice to their resentments through race.

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On 1/2/2018 at 10:18 PM, RileyMartin said:

White voters aren’t monolithic and there is no class system in the US.  The failed political candidate, affluent white columnist who wrote this speaks for you, but not every white person with a job.  

 

If you really believe that, then you really have not been paying attention. Of course there's a class system in the U.S.,... wealth, income (a little different than wealth), race, education, and a list of other parameters. When Obama Care first began to gain steam and favor, the first thing the coporatists did was to get the 'lowest white man' screaming, "... they're trying to start a class war". Remember? They know there's a class system here,... they depend on it and feed off of it. They also know when to stoke it and bring it to flames, and how to manage those flames in their favor. Again,... pay attention.

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On 1/2/2018 at 8:57 PM, hst2 said:

Does the pope poop in the woods?

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4 hours ago, JoyinMudville said:

Does the pope poop in the woods?

Not the woods of Chappaqua.  That's someone else's.  :D 

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A lot of people vote against their own better interests.

Cities like Baltimore do it continually and wonder why things get worse instead of ever improving.

The biggest concern that many Democrats have right now is that people of all colors might notice more money in their own pockets because of Trump's tax reform.  That has the potential to destroy the left's false narrative. 

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17 minutes ago, Ode2Joy said:

A lot of people vote against their own better interests.

Cities like Baltimore do it continually and wonder why things get worse instead of ever improving.

The biggest concern that many Democrats have right now is that people of all colors might notice more money in their own pockets because of Trump's tax reform.  That has the potential to destroy the left's false narrative. 

If it's paid for with debt like past tax cuts, you're probably right.  Most Americans don't understand or care about the long term consequences including the ever increasing interest paid on the debt.  They're more than happy to put more money in the pockets of millionaires and billionaires if they get to keep a nickel.

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On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 6:48 AM, dogstarman said:

Class is deeply embedded in the USA. It is all around you, attached and interacting strongly with race, economic-status and educational level. Just because class considerations aren't formalized into clear rules of behavior in the USA doesn't mean it is not there. 

Moreover, the USA has seen significant regression in social mobility in the last few decades compared to many 3rd world and 1st world nations. 

Trump will scam the shirts off his "base." They will just roll-over and accept it like some doomed honky-tonk character in a Johnny Cash song.

Much of the regression in social mobility is directly tied to the destruction of family units and the lack of emphasis many place on educational or vocational opportunities.  Another factor is the devaluation of jobs by encouraging the undercutting of earnings of those who work and follow the law by making them compete with an illegal workforce that competes with legal U.S. workers and business owners.

Under-achieving schools that produce zero students proficient in math and other schools demonstrate that the problem starts at home, whatever "home" is for many.  It becomes a way of life and learned behavior for those who know no other kind of life.  

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Posted (edited)

poor decisions make poor people.  Own up to your mistakes and don't ask me to pay for them.

Edited by Boobie

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Yes!!! They don't care if it hurts them as long as non whites don't get ahead.

That is how illogical their hate is.

I try to let Liberal whites know this , however, Liberal whites cannot conceive of that kind of evil. They just don't understand how that kind of evil can even exist.

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3 hours ago, Ode2Joy said:

A lot of people vote against their own better interests.

Cities like Baltimore do it continually and wonder why things get worse instead of ever improving.

The biggest concern that many Democrats have right now is that people of all colors might notice more money in their own pockets because of Trump's tax reform.  That has the potential to destroy the left's false narrative. 

Hahaha,... yeah, 20 to 30 bucks. Enough for 2 packs of cigarettes and six beers for most people. The biggest concern that the republicans have right now is that these same people of all colors will notice the millions that will go into the pockets of the corporatists. They're afraid of two other things as well,... 1.) that people of all colors will get a refresher course in how and why 'trickle down economics' is a fail, and 2.) that their 20-30 bucks is temporary and is scheduled to vanish. Poof,... like a bouquet of flowers in a magic show! That has the potential to destroy the right's false narrative.

Again,... it goes back to convincing the lowest white man to think he's better than the best [man of color] and that lowest white man won't noticed you're picking his pockets. Hell, give the lowest white man somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you! It's happening right before your eyes O2J!

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2 hours ago, Ode2Joy said:

Much of the regression in social mobility is directly tied to the destruction of family units and the lack of emphasis many place on educational or vocational opportunities.  Another factor is the devaluation of jobs by encouraging the undercutting of earnings of those who work and follow the law by making them compete with an illegal workforce that competes with legal U.S. workers and business owners.

Under-achieving schools that produce zero students proficient in math and other schools demonstrate that the problem starts at home, whatever "home" is for many.  It becomes a way of life and learned behavior for those who know no other kind of life.  

No it's not. The regression in social mobility is directly linked flat wages.

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20 minutes ago, hst2 said:

No it's not. The regression in social mobility is directly linked flat wages.

And flat wages are linked to having no marketable skills obtained through education or vocational training and competition from people who come here illegally.   

When you have entire schools that don't even have a single student that can pass a proficiency exam in math, it's a blueprint for continued failure and poverty, as are dysfunctional or nonexistent families. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Ode2Joy said:

A lot of people vote against their own better interests.

Cities like Baltimore do it continually and wonder why things get worse instead of ever improving.

The biggest concern that many Democrats have right now is that people of all colors might notice more money in their own pockets because of Trump's tax reform.  That has the potential to destroy the left's false narrative. 

Cities like Baltimore can only vote for the candidates that are available. Something tells me if everyone suddenly stopped voting in protest you'd have a problem with that too.  :rolleyes: 

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6 minutes ago, Ode2Joy said:

And flat wages are linked to having no marketable skills obtained through education or vocational training and competition from people who come here illegally.   

When you have entire schools that don't even have a single student that can pass a proficiency exam in math, it's a blueprint for continued failure and poverty, as are dysfunctional or nonexistent families. 

 

 

Now I have trouble arguing against these points,... first time for everything I guess. Well, except for the 'competition from people who come here illegally' part. I can argue that one,... it's not competition from people who come here illegally. People who come here illegally enable flat and low wages.

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