Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
hst2

Trump to deport 200,000 El Salvadorians who are here legally

194 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, banner1124 said:

The issue on this topic is the 200K El Salvadorians, not immigration policy in general.  But if you want to transition the discussion then fine.

I don't agree with your position on sanctuary cities.  All a sanctuary city means is that local law enforcement isn't going to do ICE's job for them.  On balance I think it's good because it's going to be difficult to get the immigrant community to cooperate AT ALL with law enforcement if they are afraid they are going get deported if they interact in any way shape or form with local law enforcement.  In many places it was local law enforcement itself that spear-headed the sanctuary city movement 

   Not doing Ices job for them? Seriously? When an illegal gets out of prison in a sanctuary city, they won't even let ICE know so they CAN do their job. What sense does that make? When a citizen gets out of prison and is wanted in another state, they notify them to come pick them up. If they arrest a citizen for a burglary and they are wanted in another state for a different crime, they will hold them till the other jurisdiction gets there if they decide to extradite them. And that crap about the police liking sanctuary cities is BS. Ask the LEOs on this board. They will tell you the rank and file street cops HATE IT. It makes their job much more dangerous. And the immigrants, (illegal or otherwise) are afraid to cooperate with the police for fear of MS13 and other gangsters retaliating. Not ICE. The only LE that likes sanctuary cities are the chiefs and commissioners that do it to curry favor with the liberal politicians.  

    As for the 200K El Salvadorians , they've been here for 17 years and haven't got a green card, or process in to become a citizen the legal way, the way my grandparents did. 

All that aside, what it comes down to is immigration reform. I support giving the 900K daca people a path to citizenship, IF, they aren't a criminal, or gang member etc. Also I would limit chain migration to parents and children, a compromise. And I would end the lottery migration. Last but not least , build a barrier where it makes sense, working closely with the border patrol to make our borders stronger than ever. When that is all done, develop a merit based immigration policy? What do you think? Too big of an ask?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, hst2 said:

Why do they have to do it at all? What is wrong with allowing them to stay?

What is wrong with open borders?  

If you want to change the laws, let's do it with something more legitimate than an ukase.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jdsample said:

What is wrong with open borders?  

If you want to change the laws, let's do it with something more legitimate than an ukase.  

Again, it isn't necessary to change the law.

However, if Trump doesnt like the status, he can work to change the law. While clearly not a lucid as I am, he has considerably more power.

Other than being sadistically cruel, it is also incredibly stupid.

1. The El Salvadorians send home billions of dollars in aid. It is a pillar of their economy. 

By driving these people out of their legal jobs and cutting off this money, El Salvador's economy suffers and more people will flee to the US.

2. A large number of these people will go underground here, rather than go to El Salvador.

And so the law enforcement community, which should be dealing with violent and dangerous criminals, like members of the MS-13, are made busy tracking down this new crop of undocumented immigrants that Trump himself created, when they are people who had been law-abiding, productive people.

It is cruel and it is stupid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mrdeltoid said:

   Not doing Ices job for them? Seriously? When an illegal gets out of prison in a sanctuary city, they won't even let ICE know so they CAN do their job. What sense does that make? When a citizen gets out of prison and is wanted in another state, they notify them to come pick them up. If they arrest a citizen for a burglary and they are wanted in another state for a different crime, they will hold them till the other jurisdiction gets there if they decide to extradite them. And that crap about the police liking sanctuary cities is BS. Ask the LEOs on this board. They will tell you the rank and file street cops HATE IT. It makes their job much more dangerous. And the immigrants, (illegal or otherwise) are afraid to cooperate with the police for fear of MS13 and other gangsters retaliating. Not ICE. The only LE that likes sanctuary cities are the chiefs and commissioners that do it to curry favor with the liberal politicians.  

    As for the 200K El Salvadorians , they've been here for 17 years and haven't got a green card, or process in to become a citizen the legal way, the way my grandparents did. 

All that aside, what it comes down to is immigration reform. I support giving the 900K daca people a path to citizenship, IF, they aren't a criminal, or gang member etc. Also I would limit chain migration to parents and children, a compromise. And I would end the lottery migration. Last but not least , build a barrier where it makes sense, working closely with the border patrol to make our borders stronger than ever. When that is all done, develop a merit based immigration policy? What do you think? Too big of an ask?

So the LEO's on this board are representative of all cops (God I hope not cause some of them are bat chit crazy)?  That the sanctuary city movement was spearheaded in some places by law enforcement is an undeniable fact.  And what proof do you have that if they have a KNOWN illegal in custody they won't let ICE know?  From what I've read they refuse to hold people longer than they are supposed to for the benefit of ICE.  That's a totally different thing.

And I'm sorry but I cannot help but think that merit based immigration policy is conservative code for white European immigration policy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, hst2 said:

Again, it isn't necessary to change the law.

However, if Trump doesnt like the status, he can work to change the law. While clearly not a lucid as I am, he has considerably more power.

Other than being sadistically cruel, it is also incredibly stupid.

1. The El Salvadorians send home billions of dollars in aid. It is a pillar of their economy. 

By driving these people out of their legal jobs and cutting off this money, El Salvador's economy suffers and more people will flee to the US.

2. A large number of these people will go underground here, rather than go to El Salvador.

And so the law enforcement community, which should be dealing with violent and dangerous criminals, like members of the MS-13, are made busy tracking down this new crop of undocumented immigrants that Trump himself created, when they are people who had been law-abiding, productive people.

It is cruel and it is stupid.

Just so I'm clear, all 200k of these folks are gainfully employed in legal jobs paying them enough that they can send billions to el salvador and are the pillar of the economy.

Am I hearing that correctly?

Edited by Dr Johnny Fever

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Dr Johnny Fever said:

Just so I'm clear, all 200k of these folks are gainfully employed in legal jobs paying them enough that they can send billions to el salvador and are the pillar of the economy.

Am I hearing that correctly?

I think so.  You'll always find misfits that promote lawlessness though.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, banner1124 said:

So the LEO's on this board are representative of all cops (God I hope not cause some of them are bat chit crazy)?  That the sanctuary city movement was spearheaded in some places by law enforcement is an undeniable fact.  And what proof do you have that if they have a KNOWN illegal in custody they won't let ICE know?  From what I've read they refuse to hold people longer than they are supposed to for the benefit of ICE.  That's a totally different thing.

And I'm sorry but I cannot help but think that merit based immigration policy is conservative code for white European immigration policy

If you think that white Europeans are the only race with skills that merit citizenship, maybe you need to rethink your on views on race issues. I know for a fact that skills valuable to our country have historically came from all races.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mrdeltoid said:

If you think that white Europeans are the only race with skills that merit citizenship, maybe you need to rethink your on views on race issues. I know for a fact that skills valuable to our country have historically came from all races.

Oh look you twisted it around to try and make me look like the bad guy just like baby Goebbels did when he talked about merit based immigration.  You folks aren't fooling anyone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, hst2 said:

Again, it isn't necessary to change the law.

However, if Trump doesnt like the status, he can work to change the law. While clearly not a lucid as I am, he has considerably more power.

Other than being sadistically cruel, it is also incredibly stupid.

1. The El Salvadorians send home billions of dollars in aid. It is a pillar of their economy. 

By driving these people out of their legal jobs and cutting off this money, El Salvador's economy suffers and more people will flee to the US.

2. A large number of these people will go underground here, rather than go to El Salvador.

And so the law enforcement community, which should be dealing with violent and dangerous criminals, like members of the MS-13, are made busy tracking down this new crop of undocumented immigrants that Trump himself created, when they are people who had been law-abiding, productive people.

It is cruel and it is stupid.

Show me in the law where "Temporary Protected Status" means permanent residence with no obligation to apply for a green card or citizenship.  Link please.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jdsample said:

Show me in the law where "Temporary Protected Status" means permanent residence with no obligation to apply for a green card or citizenship.  Link please.  

So you support a policy that is shown to be really stupid and really inhumane.

A policy that has law enforcement, who should be focusing on dangerous criminals,  rounding up a new class undocumented immigrants, created by Donald Trump, who had just been productive, law-abiding workers.

A policy that serves to undermine the economy of another nation, spurring more undocumented immigrants to come here.

A policy that rips families apart and forces American children  to violent countries that are rife with poverty.

And the only reason why you support it is because you feel like the law is being broken, when, in fact, it is not.

Am I missing anything?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, mrdeltoid said:

If you think that white Europeans are the only race with skills that merit citizenship, maybe you need to rethink your on views on race issues. I know for a fact that skills valuable to our country have historically came from all races.

 

7 hours ago, banner1124 said:

Oh look you twisted it around to try and make me look like the bad guy just like baby Goebbels did when he talked about merit based immigration.  You folks aren't fooling anyone

Fair enough, but what did you mean when you said that a merit based immigration policy is conservative code for white European immigration policy?  The only way I can see to take that is that you don't believe anyone other than white European immigrants would have the merits to immigrate to this country, which I do not believe to be the case.  If that is not what you meant, please explain.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, banner1124 said:

Oh look you twisted it around to try and make me look like the bad guy just like baby Goebbels did when he talked about merit based immigration.  You folks aren't fooling anyone

Read what you posted. Our military, civil servants, public safety, sports, is all merit based. It is the only way to remove race from the equation. Our judicial system judges on the merits of the case. YOU, made it about race. Not me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, cprenegade said:

 

Fair enough, but what did you mean when you said that a merit based immigration policy is conservative code for white European immigration policy?  The only way I can see to take that is that you don't believe anyone other than white European immigrants would have the merits to immigrate to this country, which I do not believe to be the case.  If that is not what you meant, please explain.  

It's pretty clear that I was saying that I believe that is what conservatives mean when they talk about merit based immigration

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its interesting, our society is hardly "merit based". Much wealth and power comes trhough inheritance, and we are fine with that. Of course, most of that inheritance is white, so we are fine with it.

One of our greatest values is that if you work hard, you will move up in the world. While this contradicts the inheritance we accept as part of our society, it is still a good value to embrace, and allowing young, less educated immigrants to come in and become a part of society and move up, and surely, our history shows us, they do.

It is fair to speculate that most people allowed to come here based on merit and speaking English will come from highly, developed western re: white, nations.

 

It may be worth noting that merit plays no role in Trump's decision to end this program.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, mrdeltoid said:

Read what you posted. Our military, civil servants, public safety, sports, is all merit based. It is the only way to remove race from the equation. Our judicial system judges on the merits of the case. YOU, made it about race. Not me.

I don't need to read what I posted.  I know exactly what I posted.  Immigration isn't like the military, civil servants, sports, etc.  Those  are apples to bananas comparisons.  That giant statue we have out there in NY doesn't say anything about "merit based".  And I'm sorry but that "YOU made it about race, not me" comment is complete bullcrap.  Perhaps YOU don't mean that when you say merit based but it's damn sure what baby Goebbels means when he said it.  A lot of folks have a bad habit of pulling this same kind of crap.  Often conservatives will use racist dog whistle language and then when someone points it out they're quick to say "YOU made it about race, not me"... knowing full well what their intent was all along.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, banner1124 said:

I don't need to read what I posted.  I know exactly what I posted.  Immigration isn't like the military, civil servants, sports, etc.  Those  are apples to bananas comparisons.  That giant statue we have out there in NY doesn't say anything about "merit based".  And I'm sorry but that "YOU made it about race, not me" comment is complete bullcrap.  Perhaps YOU don't mean that when you say merit based but it's damn sure what baby Goebbels means when he said it.  A lot of folks have a bad habit of pulling this same kind of crap.  Often conservatives will use racist dog whistle language and then when someone points it out they're quick to say "YOU made it about race, not me"... knowing full well what their intent was all along.

I was just pointing it out. If you really believe that merit based immigration is a " racist dog whistle ", perhaps you don't understand how it works. The UK, Canada, Australia, all use merit based immigration. Read up on it and see what you think. Most liberals point to the UK as being progressive and quite enlightened. Surely you're not suggesting they are using a "racist dog whistle ". The unfortunate truth is the world is just to dangerous to let everyone who can slip in unfettered access to resources that can harm us.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, banner1124 said:

It's pretty clear that I was saying that I believe that is what conservatives mean when they talk about merit based immigration

I can't pretend to know what others think, but I don't see how a merit based immigration policy will be heavily weighted towards white European immigrants.  In fact, if it is strictly merit based it would probably favor Asian and Indian immigrants.  They have the math and computer skills that are in demand in the US.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We could trade a bunch of fresh, new and eager immigrants for some of our stale, meth/opioid gobbling, entitled red state layabouts.

It would be like a breath of fresh-air.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, hst2 said:

Its interesting, our society is hardly "merit based". Much wealth and power comes trhough inheritance, and we are fine with that. Of course, most of that inheritance is white, so we are fine with it.

One of our greatest values is that if you work hard, you will move up in the world. While this contradicts the inheritance we accept as part of our society, it is still a good value to embrace, and allowing young, less educated immigrants to come in and become a part of society and move up, and surely, our history shows us, they do.

It is fair to speculate that most people allowed to come here based on merit and speaking English will come from highly, developed western re: white, nations.

 

It may be worth noting that merit plays no role in Trump's decision to end this program.

 

As I pointed out, a merit based system, even with the added requirement of speaking English, would highly favor Asians and Indians.  They are hardly from "white" nations.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, cprenegade said:

As I pointed out, a merit based system, even with the added requirement of speaking English, would highly favor Asians and Indians.  They are hardly from "white" nations.  

You don't feel it would favor Europeans?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, hst2 said:

You don't feel it would favor Europeans?

If it is truly merit based, it will favor Asians and Indians the most.  The technology fields are having trouble finding qualified candidates with math, computer, and engineering skills.  Those skills are very prevalent among the Asian and Indian population.  Not as much with the European countries.  At least not that I have seen in dealing with consulting firms the last decade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, cprenegade said:

If it is truly merit based, it will favor Asians and Indians the most.  The technology fields are having trouble finding qualified candidates with math, computer, and engineering skills.  Those skills are very prevalent among the Asian and Indian population.  Not as much with the European countries.  At least not that I have seen in dealing with consulting firms the last decade.

That's just it... I don't believe it will be truly merit based... at least not when you have a white nationalist like Miller as the one you use as the face of the policy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, cprenegade said:

If it is truly merit based, it will favor Asians and Indians the most.  The technology fields are having trouble finding qualified candidates with math, computer, and engineering skills.  Those skills are very prevalent among the Asian and Indian population.  Not as much with the European countries.  At least not that I have seen in dealing with consulting firms the last decade.

Who it attracts and doesn't concern me so much as how much it limits legal immigration. And with Paul Ryan insisting we need to have more children if we are going to save Social Security, that seems like a foolish policy, indeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, mrdeltoid said:

   Not doing Ices job for them? Seriously? When an illegal gets out of prison in a sanctuary city, they won't even let ICE know so they CAN do their job. What sense does that make? When a citizen gets out of prison and is wanted in another state, they notify them to come pick them up. If they arrest a citizen for a burglary and they are wanted in another state for a different crime, they will hold them till the other jurisdiction gets there if they decide to extradite them. And that crap about the police liking sanctuary cities is BS. Ask the LEOs on this board. They will tell you the rank and file street cops HATE IT. It makes their job much more dangerous. And the immigrants, (illegal or otherwise) are afraid to cooperate with the police for fear of MS13 and other gangsters retaliating. Not ICE. The only LE that likes sanctuary cities are the chiefs and commissioners that do it to curry favor with the liberal politicians.  

    As for the 200K El Salvadorians , they've been here for 17 years and haven't got a green card, or process in to become a citizen the legal way, the way my grandparents did. 

All that aside, what it comes down to is immigration reform. I support giving the 900K daca people a path to citizenship, IF, they aren't a criminal, or gang member etc. Also I would limit chain migration to parents and children, a compromise. And I would end the lottery migration. Last but not least , build a barrier where it makes sense, working closely with the border patrol to make our borders stronger than ever. When that is all done, develop a merit based immigration policy? What do you think? Too big of an ask?

Not bad ideas but not fixing the biggest problem. The vast majority of illegal or undocumented aliens (whichever term you prefer) is those who overstay their visas. Why is it so hard to keep track of visa holders?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, banner1124 said:

That's just it... I don't believe it will be truly merit based... at least not when you have a white nationalist like Miller as the one you use as the face of the policy.

Well that's another argument.  That would be against who is enforcing it, not against the policy itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0