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hst2

Trump to deport 200,000 El Salvadorians who are here legally

194 posts in this topic

12 minutes ago, hst2 said:

Who it attracts and doesn't concern me so much as how much it limits legal immigration. And with Paul Ryan insisting we need to have more children if we are going to save Social Security, that seems like a foolish policy, indeed.

I disagree with Ryan.  The world is overpopulated now.  The answer is not more population.  The first step is for the government to pay back Social Security what it has borrowed from it.  

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4 hours ago, hst2 said:

So you support a policy that is shown to be really stupid and really inhumane.

A policy that has law enforcement, who should be focusing on dangerous criminals,  rounding up a new class undocumented immigrants, created by Donald Trump, who had just been productive, law-abiding workers.

A policy that serves to undermine the economy of another nation, spurring more undocumented immigrants to come here.

A policy that rips families apart and forces American children  to violent countries that are rife with poverty.

And the only reason why you support it is because you feel like the law is being broken, when, in fact, it is not.

Am I missing anything?

Yes. The point.  Pass a new law.  The old one from 2001 says specifically that they are temporary residents until El Salvador could clean up the earthquake damage.  And in the mean time, if an El Salvadoran wants to stay so bad, lift a finger and fill out an application for a green card.  Meet us halfway.   

And if these people are so worthless that going home will undermine the economy of El Salvador, I suppose they must be doing the same thing in the US.  If I were Salvadoran, I would be deeply offended at your racist comments.  

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Just now, bmore_ken said:

Not bad ideas but not fixing the biggest problem. The vast majority of illegal or undocumented aliens (whichever term you prefer) is those who overstay their visas. Why is it so hard to keep track of visa holders?

Absolutely correct, and a huge problem that needs to be corrected. I overlooked it. You would think that a country that can keep track of millions of drivers license holders, gun permits, delinquent tax payers, etc, etc, etc, they could keep track of visa holders. I think if we can get transparency to the "political big shot meetings " like yesterday's, we would know who working toward solving problems, instead of emerging from behind closed doors and having self serving talking points from both sides of the aisle. We have CSPAN ,why not make all these meetings public? We have a right to know, after all, WE are THEIR boss!

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59 minutes ago, Calamari said:

We could trade a bunch of fresh, new and eager immigrants for some of our stale, meth/opioid gobbling, entitled red state layabouts.

It would be like a breath of fresh-air.

Yes, the population of DC would be a good start.  

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Just now, jdsample said:

Yes, the population of DC would be a good start.  

Race again, eh?

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15 minutes ago, cprenegade said:

I disagree with Ryan.  The world is overpopulated now.  The answer is not more population.  The first step is for the government to pay back Social Security what it has borrowed from it.  

And obviously, allowing more young immigrants has nothing to do with overpopulation. It would be a response to it. A highly industrialized society that loses population will regress.

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13 minutes ago, jdsample said:

Yes. The point.  Pass a new law.  The old one from 2001 says specifically that they are temporary residents until El Salvador could clean up the earthquake damage.  And in the mean time, if an El Salvadoran wants to stay so bad, lift a finger and fill out an application for a green card.  Meet us halfway.   

And if these people are so worthless that going home will undermine the economy of El Salvador, I suppose they must be doing the same thing in the US.  If I were Salvadoran, I would be deeply offended at your racist comments.  

So work to pass a new law. 

You misunderstand the point about sending them home.

You also misunderstand how the green card process works.

This might help explain why you support a policy that is not only cruel, but stupid too.

 

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1 hour ago, cprenegade said:

I can't pretend to know what others think, but I don't see how a merit based immigration policy will be heavily weighted towards white European immigrants.  In fact, if it is strictly merit based it would probably favor Asian and Indian immigrants.  They have the math and computer skills that are in demand in the US.  

 

But those Asian & Indian immigrants might not toe the Dem line .......

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1 hour ago, banner1124 said:

I don't need to read what I posted.  I know exactly what I posted.  Immigration isn't like the military, civil servants, sports, etc.  Those  are apples to bananas comparisons.  That giant statue we have out there in NY doesn't say anything about "merit based".  And I'm sorry but that "YOU made it about race, not me" comment is complete bullcrap.  Perhaps YOU don't mean that when you say merit based but it's damn sure what baby Goebbels means when he said it.  A lot of folks have a bad habit of pulling this same kind of crap.  Often conservatives will use racist dog whistle language and then when someone points it out they're quick to say "YOU made it about race, not me"... knowing full well what their intent was all along.

When did that giant statue become the law of the land ..???

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4 minutes ago, hst2 said:

Race again, eh?

What makes you say that?  Do your negro pets own the Capitol and Georgetown?  I had not heard that.  But I'm just a rube in flyover country.  

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10 minutes ago, hst2 said:

So work to pass a new law. 

You misunderstand the point about sending them home.

You also misunderstand how the green card process works.

This might help explain why you support a policy that is not only cruel, but stupid too.

 

Yes, work to pass a new law.  

And I think I have a pretty good grasp on the green card process as I followed it with a buddy whose time and opportunity for employment was running out.  It is true that if you live off welfare you don't have much of a shot at a green card.  But if you have a job, you and your employer can get you one.  Of course government churns slowly, so it might take six months or a year.  Well, 17 years have passed.  I think they could have learned how to use a pencil by now.  

Edited by jdsample

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You need a family sponsor to get a green card.

"...a small number of beneficiaries may be eligible for green cards through the sponsorship of a US citizen family member..."

link

If you want to change the law, then work to change it.

In the meantime, don't support policy that is both stupid and cruel.

Edited by hst2

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1 hour ago, stevez51 said:

When did that giant statue become the law of the land ..???

God forbid I expect the behavior of America to live up to the promise of America

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2 hours ago, banner1124 said:

God forbid I expect the behavior of America to live up to the promise of America

A poet wrote those words, not a lawmaker.

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6 minutes ago, stevez51 said:

A poet wrote those words, not a lawmaker.

Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?  I don't see a problem with wanting our laws to live up to the promise of America... do you?  Does it matter who wrote the words?  All that matters is that those words represent what American promises to be to the world and I, for one, think we should do all we can to live up to that promise

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18 minutes ago, stevez51 said:

A poet wrote those words, not a lawmaker.

Do you object to the sentiment and values expressed in those words?

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8 minutes ago, banner1124 said:

Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?  I don't see a problem with wanting our laws to live up to the promise of America... do you?  Does it matter who wrote the words?  All that matters is that those words represent what American promises to be to the world and I, for one, think we should do all we can to live up to that promise

And we do.....to the tune of a nearly a million a year.

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Just now, Dr Johnny Fever said:

And we do.....to the tune of a nearly a million a year.

So, do you think that booting 200K plus El Salvadorians for no good reason lives up to that promise?  I sure as hell don't

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24 minutes ago, banner1124 said:

So, do you think that booting 200K plus El Salvadorians for no good reason lives up to that promise?  I sure as hell don't

A better question is how did 17 years pass without a solution to this problem? How many more administrations should kick the can of migration reform down the road? Any bold action will be ridiculed from the sidelines but sooner or later, a CIC will have to take the bull by the horns and damn the mockers. Giving amnesty to a few million people every 20 years or so will work, if we don't mind radical Islamists killing a few thousand citizens every so often.:rolleyes:

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19 hours ago, banner1124 said:

And I'm sorry but I cannot help but think that merit based immigration policy is conservative code for white European immigration policy

Merit based immigration is used by Canada, the UK, Australia, and New Zealand.

Quote

A points-based immigration system is an immigration system where a noncitizen's eligibility to immigrate is (partly or wholly) determined by whether that noncitizen is above to score above a threshold number of points in a scoring system that might include such factors as education level, wealth, connection with the country, language fluency, existing job offer, or others. Points-based immigration systems are sometimes also referred to as merit-based immigration systems,

Tell me why you would oppose a system that favors bringing in the best and the brightest instead of some unemployed uncle of a doorman already here?

Quote

 

The current immigration system reserves two-thirds of all green cards for foreigners who already have extended family in the United States without accounting for prospective immigrants' economic potential. A 60-year-old high-school dropout who has a sister in New York City would be more likely to receive a green card than a 30-year-old physics Ph.D. who has no relatives here.

Because so many extended family members of immigrants possess few skills, they compete with the most vulnerable Americans for jobs.

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/homeland-security/362227-a-merit-based-immigration-system-would-help-americans

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1 minute ago, mrdeltoid said:

A better question is how did 17 years pass without a solution to this problem? How many more administrations should kick the can of migration reform down the road? Any bold action will be ridiculed from the sidelines but sooner or later, a CIC will have to take the bull by the horns and damn the mockers. Giving amnesty to a few million people every 20 years or so will work, if we don't mind radical Islamists killing a few thousand citizens every so often.:rolleyes:

The reason why they are still here is because sending them home is stupid and cruel. The reasons why that is have been laid out. 

In the cause of human decency, the policy is a success.

If you want to get rid of the program, and surely Trump does, we can have an honest debate about that.

But in the meantime it is needlessly cruel and counterproductive to do it.

Its just racism, pure and simple.

The "radical Islam" remark backs that up. Hatred and fear. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Glengarry said:

Merit based immigration is used by Canada, the UK, Australia, and New Zealand.

Tell me why you would oppose a system that favors bringing in the best and the brightest instead of some unemployed uncle of a doorman already here?

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/homeland-security/362227-a-merit-based-immigration-system-would-help-americans

No reason to not have both.

However, with Trump/GOP cuts to research and opposition to science, we might have trouble attracting the best physicists. Good weapons designers perhaps. perhaps that's all you folks care about.

But we need people across the economic spectrum.

We need more young people.

We have an education system that can reward merit. Many of these kids become excellent scholars, scientists and entrepreneurs. They become loyal Americans. 

Some of us like to believe we are obligated to help the downtrodden of the world, especially in places like Central America, where our political meddling and economic meddling have brought so much hardship.

Do you disagree with the sentiments and values expressed in the poem?

"Bring us your best; forget the rest." 

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10 minutes ago, hst2 said:

Some of us like to believe we are obligated to help the downtrodden of the world, especially in places like Central America, where our political meddling and economic meddling have brought so much hardship.

Why not help the downtrodden of America first?  Your posts seem to indicate a desire to help those at the bottom, how is bringing in high school dropout Uncle Umberto from El Salvador to compete with their low wage job skills helping them?   I'd rather see some semi-literate American crackhead get a job sweeping the streets of NY then some imported one, allowed in the country only because his nephew picks tobacco in upstate CT.

Quote

Because so many extended family members of immigrants possess few skills, they compete with the most vulnerable Americans for jobs.

 

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6 minutes ago, hst2 said:

The reason why they are still here is because sending them home is stupid and cruel. The reasons why that is have been laid out. 

In the cause of human decency, the policy is a success.

If you want to get rid of the program, and surely Trump does, we can have an honest debate about that.

But in the meantime it is needlessly cruel and counterproductive to do it.

Its just racism, pure and simple.

The "radical Islam" remark backs that up. Hatred and fear. 

 

Typical white liberal con game. Call everybody racist and hateful, buy their vote, pass laws trapping them into a cycle of government dependency. That's how they tricked AA's over 50 years ago. Throw a bone or two to a couple "civil justice warriors" that do the politicking for them, show up in a black church once or twice every 4 years and bingo, voting block for generations. But they never get any real power. Look at Baltimore, Chicago, D.C. Generations of AA families trapped in a poverty stricken war zone, but every four years, do their duty and pull the democrat lever. Same thing now with Hispanic families. Democrat scammers to Hispanics : Psssssst......if you can get in the country, any way at all, we got your back. Wink wink. Don't worry about anything, we'll cover your medical care, food, housing, any problem at all, we got a program for you. Bingo, 13 million more democrat voters and counting. White liberals don't give a crap about anybody but themselves. Vote for us and we'll take money from working citizens and give it to you! 

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1 hour ago, banner1124 said:

So, do you think that booting 200K plus El Salvadorians for no good reason lives up to that promise?  I sure as hell don't

The only thing that would live up to that promise is an open border.

Is that what you're advocating?

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