soulflower

Trump doesn’t understand why people become immigrants

243 posts in this topic

25 minutes ago, boink said:

very touching article but unclear what it has to do with Trump's comment

none of the laureates are from Haiti and Africa

 

It is unclear from the article at what age these laureates immigrated.  But if you have a "Sir" affixed to your name I'm pretty sure you weren't a "dreamer" and were dragged here by parents when you were three.  

So I wonder that since these 6 people have blood lines in common with most Americans, did Britain, Scotland and Europe export only their stupid people to the new world that invented airplanes and were the first to walk on the moon?  I don't think they did IQ tests for the Mayflower and rejected people who scored well and prevented them from boarding.  

So assuming Americans have the same innate talent as these immigrants, what explains this?  Well, maybe our school teachers aren't as good as in Europe? So our HS grads are just not as well educated.  That is kind of borne out in international test results.  

OTH, we are looking at a sample of six amongst hundreds of millions of people.  When I used to teach statistics, I would caution students not to judge based on outliers.  And these six are not more than a snowflake on the top of the polar ice cap (which was supposed to be gone by now but that is a separate topic).  So these 6 are the very definition of outliers.  As an example, look at the composition of the NBA or NFL in terms of race.  A whole lot of African Americans.  So are African Americans on average better football players and basket ball players than everyone else?  You can't conclude that because you are looking at 100% outliers.  It could well be true, but it could also be true the the talent bell curve for African Americans is simply broader that for European Americans.  It might be that for every Michael Jordan and Jim Brown there is a Fat Albert or Oprah Winfrey weighting down the other end of the bell.  It might be that your average whitey and average black guy are actually just the same in talent.  But even if we could prove the average black guy is better, I'm still picking Larry Bird before Oprah or Fat Albert for our pick-up game at the park.  

My final thought is rather ugly.  I think the Nobel committee has become increasingly political.  After all, they didn't award the Peace Prize to Obama after 8 years, or a long career of accomplishments.  It was virtually as he was inaugurated.  He had yet to enter the wading pool.  This year's issue is immigration.  Was there any motivation to award prizes solely to immigrants in the US?  That would be a great way to poke Trump in the eye.  Obviously I have no evidence of that and it isn't something we can control.  So I will go back to teachers.  They need to be better and a great first step is to ban unions from public service jobs.  

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1 hour ago, hst2 said:

He doesn't get that his own support for selective immigration policy is based on the eugenics thinking that he decries.

Because it isn't.  How hard is that to understand?

Every country in the world (except the good ol' USA) is selective.  I was encouraged to emigrate to Australia in my 20's.  I had a lot to contribute.  The locals explained that education and skills were a prerequisite to move there or get their version of a green card.  Now, being semi-retired I'm pretty sure I would be rejected.  I don't blame them.  

But in your 'Merica the prerequisite is not education and skills, it is just the opposite.  Dependency and voting for Dems is the prerequisite.  

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19 minutes ago, jdsample said:

It is unclear from the article at what age these laureates immigrated.  But if you have a "Sir" affixed to your name I'm pretty sure you weren't a "dreamer" and were dragged here by parents when you were three.  

So I wonder that since these 6 people have blood lines in common with most Americans, did Britain, Scotland and Europe export only their stupid people to the new world that invented airplanes and were the first to walk on the moon?  I don't think they did IQ tests for the Mayflower and rejected people who scored well and prevented them from boarding.  

So assuming Americans have the same innate talent as these immigrants, what explains this?  Well, maybe our school teachers aren't as good as in Europe? So our HS grads are just not as well educated.  That is kind of borne out in international test results.  

OTH, we are looking at a sample of six amongst hundreds of millions of people.  When I used to teach statistics, I would caution students not to judge based on outliers.  And these six are not more than a snowflake on the top of the polar ice cap (which was supposed to be gone by now but that is a separate topic).  So these 6 are the very definition of outliers.  As an example, look at the composition of the NBA or NFL in terms of race.  A whole lot of African Americans.  So are African Americans on average better football players and basket ball players than everyone else?  You can't conclude that because you are looking at 100% outliers.  It could well be true, but it could also be true the the talent bell curve for African Americans is simply broader that for European Americans.  It might be that for every Michael Jordan and Jim Brown there is a Fat Albert or Oprah Winfrey weighting down the other end of the bell.  It might be that your average whitey and average black guy are actually just the same in talent.  But even if we could prove the average black guy is better, I'm still picking Larry Bird before Oprah or Fat Albert for our pick-up game at the park.  

My final thought is rather ugly.  I think the Nobel committee has become increasingly political.  After all, they didn't award the Peace Prize to Obama after 8 years, or a long career of accomplishments.  It was virtually as he was inaugurated.  He had yet to enter the wading pool.  This year's issue is immigration.  Was there any motivation to award prizes solely to immigrants in the US?  That would be a great way to poke Trump in the eye.  Obviously I have no evidence of that and it isn't something we can control.  So I will go back to teachers.  They need to be better and a great first step is to ban unions from public service jobs.  

Immigrants have been disproportionately represented among US  N prize winners since the 80s.

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20 minutes ago, jdsample said:

It is unclear from the article at what age these laureates immigrated.  But if you have a "Sir" affixed to your name I'm pretty sure you weren't a "dreamer" and were dragged here by parents when you were three.  

So I wonder that since these 6 people have blood lines in common with most Americans, did Britain, Scotland and Europe export only their stupid people to the new world that invented airplanes and were the first to walk on the moon?  I don't think they did IQ tests for the Mayflower and rejected people who scored well and prevented them from boarding.  

So assuming Americans have the same innate talent as these immigrants, what explains this?  Well, maybe our school teachers aren't as good as in Europe? So our HS grads are just not as well educated.  That is kind of borne out in international test results.  

OTH, we are looking at a sample of six amongst hundreds of millions of people.  When I used to teach statistics, I would caution students not to judge based on outliers.  And these six are not more than a snowflake on the top of the polar ice cap (which was supposed to be gone by now but that is a separate topic).  So these 6 are the very definition of outliers.  As an example, look at the composition of the NBA or NFL in terms of race.  A whole lot of African Americans.  So are African Americans on average better football players and basket ball players than everyone else?  You can't conclude that because you are looking at 100% outliers.  It could well be true, but it could also be true the the talent bell curve for African Americans is simply broader that for European Americans.  It might be that for every Michael Jordan and Jim Brown there is a Fat Albert or Oprah Winfrey weighting down the other end of the bell.  It might be that your average whitey and average black guy are actually just the same in talent.  But even if we could prove the average black guy is better, I'm still picking Larry Bird before Oprah or Fat Albert for our pick-up game at the park.  

My final thought is rather ugly.  I think the Nobel committee has become increasingly political.  After all, they didn't award the Peace Prize to Obama after 8 years, or a long career of accomplishments.  It was virtually as he was inaugurated.  He had yet to enter the wading pool.  This year's issue is immigration.  Was there any motivation to award prizes solely to immigrants in the US?  That would be a great way to poke Trump in the eye.  Obviously I have no evidence of that and it isn't something we can control.  So I will go back to teachers.  They need to be better and a great first step is to ban unions from public service jobs.  

NBA and NFL players are all outliers? What??

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5 hours ago, ms maggie said:

What? Not true. Restrictions were introduced in the 20s, not a ban.

He forgets Ellis Island was processing people up until 1954. We ended open immigration in the 20’s

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Re:  President Voldemort's statements about Haitians & Africans.

Meaning:  Africans & Haitians discover that their Majoritarian Pet Status has been revoked. 

Kandace's reaction:    :) :D:lol:B)

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You people want refugees from certain countries but who so if their place of origin is not a crap hole?

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1 hour ago, jdsample said:

Because it isn't.  How hard is that to understand?

Every country in the world (except the good ol' USA) is selective.  I was encouraged to emigrate to Australia in my 20's.  I had a lot to contribute.  The locals explained that education and skills were a prerequisite to move there or get their version of a green card.  Now, being semi-retired I'm pretty sure I would be rejected.  I don't blame them.  

But in your 'Merica the prerequisite is not education and skills, it is just the opposite.  Dependency and voting for Dems is the prerequisite.  

What did you have "a lot to contribute"?

This post proves that you are swayed by eugenics. You have no concept that dark skinned people coming here are unable to contribute to the country in any meaningful way.

You support the stripping of legal status to El Salvadorians even though they are contributing to our society, and the policy will create even more undocumented workers because you simply don't see them as being part of America - even down to their citizen children. You define the=ma s inherently "dependent".

Eugenics all the way.

Edited by hst2

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3 hours ago, boink said:

very touching article but unclear what it has to do with Trump's comment

none of the laureates are from Haiti and Africa

 

African immigrants are more educated than most — including people born in U.S.

http://beta.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-global-african-immigrants-explainer-20180112-story.html

Africa Is Sending Us Its Best and Brightest

Simple economics explains why the U.S. can accept many more migrants from poorer countries.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-01-12/africa-is-sending-us-its-best-and-brightest

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37 minutes ago, Heisenberg said:

You're getting in bed with Tom Cotton? Shocker. 

No valid retort.........shocker.

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7 minutes ago, soulflower said:

African immigrants are more educated than most — including people born in U.S.

http://beta.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-global-african-immigrants-explainer-20180112-story.html

Africa Is Sending Us Its Best and Brightest

Simple economics explains why the U.S. can accept many more migrants from poorer countries.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-01-12/africa-is-sending-us-its-best-and-brightest

Soulflower:

Those facts do not help.  They only serve to enrage certain people. 

It is really those facts that are the source of Majoritarian resentment and fury more than anything else. 

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3 hours ago, ms maggie said:

Weird. Saw data the other day re educational level by religion. Far and away the most highly educated Americans are Hindi. Jewish and Muslim both higher than Christian. Lowest is evangelical Christian, both black and white. The point being our leadership is going to be coming from non Norway groups. Seems to make some folks crazy.

There seems to be this misconception that being "American" is a DNA/ethnic thing. Like being Japanese or French. Weird.

You’re dealing with the kind of simplistic thinking that gets policies like the Travel Ban. 

There are bright people even within poor countries. Not everyone from Italy is in the mafia. Not everyone from Pakistan is a terrorist.

Making policy based on stereotypes is so intellectually lazy...

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So now the conversation is steered to who's smarter?

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Possibly another "Hands up don't shoot" moment for the Libs?

 

It certainly a possibility.

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8 minutes ago, soulflower said:

You’re dealing with the kind of simplistic thinking that gets policies like the Travel Ban. 

There are bright people even within poor countries. Not everyone from Italy is in the mafia. Not everyone from Pakistan is a terrorist.

Making policy based on stereotypes is so intellectually lazy...

Trump will find that his merit based policy will attract many more people of color than it will white people.  But he may be satisfied in the limiting of their numbers.

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2 hours ago, jdsample said:

It is unclear from the article at what age these laureates immigrated.  But if you have a "Sir" affixed to your name I'm pretty sure you weren't a "dreamer" and were dragged here by parents when you were three.  

So I wonder that since these 6 people have blood lines in common with most Americans, did Britain, Scotland and Europe export only their stupid people to the new world that invented airplanes and were the first to walk on the moon?  I don't think they did IQ tests for the Mayflower and rejected people who scored well and prevented them from boarding.  

So assuming Americans have the same innate talent as these immigrants, what explains this?  Well, maybe our school teachers aren't as good as in Europe? So our HS grads are just not as well educated.  That is kind of borne out in international test results.  

OTH, we are looking at a sample of six amongst hundreds of millions of people.  When I used to teach statistics, I would caution students not to judge based on outliers.  And these six are not more than a snowflake on the top of the polar ice cap (which was supposed to be gone by now but that is a separate topic).  So these 6 are the very definition of outliers.  As an example, look at the composition of the NBA or NFL in terms of race.  A whole lot of African Americans.  So are African Americans on average better football players and basket ball players than everyone else?  You can't conclude that because you are looking at 100% outliers.  It could well be true, but it could also be true the the talent bell curve for African Americans is simply broader that for European Americans.  It might be that for every Michael Jordan and Jim Brown there is a Fat Albert or Oprah Winfrey weighting down the other end of the bell.  It might be that your average whitey and average black guy are actually just the same in talent.  But even if we could prove the average black guy is better, I'm still picking Larry Bird before Oprah or Fat Albert for our pick-up game at the park.  

My final thought is rather ugly.  I think the Nobel committee has become increasingly political.  After all, they didn't award the Peace Prize to Obama after 8 years, or a long career of accomplishments.  It was virtually as he was inaugurated.  He had yet to enter the wading pool.  This year's issue is immigration.  Was there any motivation to award prizes solely to immigrants in the US?  That would be a great way to poke Trump in the eye.  Obviously I have no evidence of that and it isn't something we can control.  So I will go back to teachers.  They need to be better and a great first step is to ban unions from public service jobs.  

It’s far easier to judge people as individuals than to try to fit people into boxes based on race or nationality. 

There’s little evidence to confirm your biases against people from s*ithole countries. 

On the contrary, there’s far more evidence confirming the view that immigrants excel academically and professionally in the US. 

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Maybe he should ask Melania and the pregnant women from Russia who use his property to have children.

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2 minutes ago, hst2 said:

Trump will find that his merit based policy will attract many more people of color than it will white people.  But he may be satisfied in the limiting of their numbers.

Merit Based is code for fewer non-white Immigrants 

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4 minutes ago, soulflower said:

It’s far easier to judge people as individuals than to try to fit people into boxes based on race or nationality. 

There’s little evidence to confirm your biases against people from s*ithole countries. 

On the contrary, there’s far more evidence confirming the view that immigrants excel academically and professionally in the US. 

He feels that Intelligence is based on genes. A very eugenicist outlook.

Edited by hst2

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8 minutes ago, mcorioles said:

So now the conversation is steered to who's smarter?

We’re giving Trump the benefit of the doubt by assuming he’s a moron. 

The scarier possibility is that he’s a White Supremacist

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1 minute ago, soulflower said:

Merit Based is code for fewer non-white Immigrants 

Indeed. It won't change the complexion of immigrants though, but it will mean fewer.

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6 minutes ago, soulflower said:

We’re giving Trump the benefit of the doubt by assuming he’s a moron. 

The scarier possibility is that he’s a White Supremacist

Trump wants a whiter country. That's why he said what he said.

Edited by hst2

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25 minutes ago, mcorioles said:

No valid retort.........shocker.

Everyone knows you have no valid retort. 

You believe a serial liar in Tom Cotton. Nothing more to be said here.

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