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Pees unretires - named DC of Titans

44 posts in this topic

On 2/4/2018 at 6:57 PM, RavingManiac said:

I think it was more on the players. The safety vs the bengals was not in position. The safety against the raiders last year bit on a fake by the wide receiver. There may be a game or two that was Pees fault but he has done a pretty good job with what he has had to work with. We have had no pass rush by rushing four except for Suggs the last few years. Injuries to the defensive backs have been devastating. 

Some years Pees did not have much to work with. But I believe a coach has to be able to both devise a working plan, and "sell" it to the players - here meaning, he has to get them to agree that it's a good plan and to run it. If a coach can't do that, then the next guy up the chain (Harbaugh, here) has to figure out whether the problem is bad players or a bad coach, and make the necessary change. That might be what happened, with Pees being given a graceful exit as recompense for his service. (The alternative is that Pees really did want to retire, and then Vrabel sold him on reversing that decision). We fans are looking at this through a keyhole.

One thing I disliked about Pees was the zone. Either he could never get it to work, or he could never find players to make it work. It seemed like at times opponents were waiting for that defense, and when they spotted it, they had a play ready they knew would defeat it - and Pees never seemed to see that coming.

Edited by Evil Yoda

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15 hours ago, mrdeltoid said:

 Now blown leads????? I'm not sure. That may be a weakness. Stats can be misleading.

The blown lead thing is a myth. I looked at the scores of the losses again just for the hell of it. 

Jags and Steelers 1 were blow out losses. No blown leads there.

Bears was a loss in OT. Ravens tied in regulation to force OT. No blown lead there. 

Losses to the Vikings and Titans they went into the 4th trailing. No blown leads there. 

That leaves only two actual blown leads. Steelers 2 and Bengals 2.

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3 hours ago, bmore_ken said:

The blown lead thing is a myth. I looked at the scores of the losses again just for the hell of it. 

Jags and Steelers 1 were blow out losses. No blown leads there.

Bears was a loss in OT. Ravens tied in regulation to force OT. No blown lead there. 

Losses to the Vikings and Titans they went into the 4th trailing. No blown leads there. 

That leaves only two actual blown leads. Steelers 2 and Bengals 2.

Pees has been the DC since 2012.

The blown leads go back further than 2017.

2016: Raiders, Giants, Steelers

2015: Raiders, Bengals, Browns, Jaguars

2014: Bengals, Bengals, Chargers, not to mention the two 14 point leads blown in the playoffs against New England.

And there's more but I have to head into a meeting.

 

Edited by Pickle20

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24 minutes ago, Pickle20 said:

Pees has been the DC since 2012.

The blown leads go back further than 2017.

2016: Raiders, Giants, Steelers

2015: Raiders, Bengals, Browns, Jaguars

2014: Bengals, Bengals, Chargers, not to mention the two 14 point leads blown in the playoffs against New England.

And there's more but I have to head into a meeting.

 

So that’s 10 blown leads since 2012? 12 if you count losses to a 5 SB championship team?  So that’s an average of 2 per year. I guess no other team has blown two leads per year since 2012 . Not to mention, I guess none of those blown leads had anything with the defense being exhausted at the end because of an  offense that couldn’t stay on the field. :rolleyes:

Edited by bmore_ken

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3 hours ago, bmore_ken said:

The blown lead thing is a myth. I looked at the scores of the losses again just for the hell of it. 

Jags and Steelers 1 were blow out losses. No blown leads there.

Bears was a loss in OT. Ravens tied in regulation to force OT. No blown lead there. 

Losses to the Vikings and Titans they went into the 4th trailing. No blown leads there. 

That leaves only two actual blown leads. Steelers 2 and Bengals 2.

Thanks, I wasn't sure as I couldn't find a stat for that. From what I remember, Pees usually had the defense in the right coverages for what they were seeing. I think there may be problems as far as technique that can be coached up by the position coaches. I could be wrong, but what I saw in previous years, the personnel in the secondary was limited as far as some could play man coverage, but struggled in zone. I mean you can compensate with cover 2, man under, but mixed coverages are being recognized a lot quicker than it used to be. I still think we need an edge rusher that an OC has to account for in every game. Doesn't matter who the cover men are, if the QB has time to throw, the receiver will get open eventually.

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2 minutes ago, mrdeltoid said:

Thanks, I wasn't sure as I couldn't find a stat for that. From what I remember, Pees usually had the defense in the right coverages for what they were seeing. I think there may be problems as far as technique that can be coached up by the position coaches. I could be wrong, but what I saw in previous years, the personnel in the secondary was limited as far as some could play man coverage, but struggled in zone. I mean you can compensate with cover 2, man under, but mixed coverages are being recognized a lot quicker than it used to be. I still think we need an edge rusher that an OC has to account for in every game. Doesn't matter who the cover men are, if the QB has time to throw, the receiver will get open eventually.

Pees may not have been perfect, but his defenses has led the league in interceptions two years in a row. And this past season the team was 12th in total defense, 10th against the pass, 15th against the run, and 6th in points per game. Those aren’t 2000 Ravens numbers, but they aren’t bad either. 

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Just now, bmore_ken said:

Pees may not have been perfect, but his defenses has led the league in interceptions two years in a row. And this past season the team was 12th in total defense, 10th against the pass, 15th against the run, and 6th in points per game. Those aren’t 2000 Ravens numbers, but they aren’t bad either. 

I know, especially the PPG! I don't know why everybody gave him such a hard time. I think a lot of people think if you don't blitz all the time, you aren't being aggressive. Remember in 2000, how our defense would hit the QB so much and get him flustered, then just sit back in zone and pick off passes? I think we Baltimore fans are kind of spoiled when it comes to defense.

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46 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

So that’s 10 blown leads since 2012? 12 if you count losses to a 5 SB championship team?  So that’s an average of 2 per year. I guess no other team has blown two leads per year since 2012 . Not to mention, I guess none of those blown leads had anything with the defense being exhausted at the end because of an  offense that couldn’t stay on the field. :rolleyes:

 I vehemently disagree. Pees-led defenses have regularly blown 4th Q leads (and at home) during his time here. Yeah, at least 3 times a year. Almost 20% of the season. That is a trend and largely the reason why we've made the playoffs only once since 2012.

Now you mention that 5 SB winning team -- do you think THEY would have put up with the defensive meltdowns Pees has had over that tenure?

Oh wait, no they wouldn't because Pees was the DC in New England and they didn't bring him back either.

 

Edited by Pickle20

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3 minutes ago, Pickle20 said:

 I vehemently disagree. Pees-led defenses have regularly blown 4th Q leads (and at home) during his time here. Yeah, at least 3 times a year. Almost 20% of the season. That is a trend and largely the reason why we've made the playoffs only once since 2012.

Now you mention that 5 SB winning team -- do you think THEY would have put up with the defensive meltdowns Pees has had over that tenure?

Oh wait, no they wouldn't because Pees was the DC in New England and they didn't bring him back either.

 

Pees wasn’t fired at New England . He left at the end of his contract. 

Edited by bmore_ken

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3 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

Pees wasn’t fired at New England . He left at the end of his contract. 

Right. Chances are they wouldn't have had him back, like here.

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4 hours ago, bmore_ken said:

Pees wasn’t fired at New England . He left at the end of his contract. 

If they had valued him, they would have extended his contract.

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1 hour ago, Evil Yoda said:

If they had valued him, they would have extended his contract.

How do you know they didn't try?

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6 minutes ago, bmore_ken said:

How do you know they didn't try?

I don't, for certain. But he came here to a demotion (he started here as a linebackers coach). That's not the usual path of men whose talents are eagerly sought. I suspect he's a really nice guy whose colleagues like him, and so they give them the opportunity afforded to well-liked people who just aren't getting it done, to walk away on their own terms.

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1 hour ago, Evil Yoda said:

I don't, for certain. 

Neither do I, but kudos for admitting that. :)

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I'm still inclined to put more of the blame on the players than Pees.  Obviously he gets his share but if the players execute, nobody is talking about his schemes.  And more than just the defense, the offense shares some blame as well.   It's simply that the Raven's have fielded some very mediocre teams talent wise since winning it all and purging.  I think fans tend to over rate the talent their favorite teams have.  For instance most people here had no problem pointing out the flaws in New England's defense or Pittsburgh's defense, but when it comes to the Ravens, it seems they wanted to give Pees all of the blame.  It seems like nobody wants to admit that despite free agent acquisitions and a draft spent almost exclusively on defense, the Raven's still fielded a largely mediocre defensive team.   

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50 minutes ago, cprenegade said:

I'm still inclined to put more of the blame on the players than Pees.  Obviously he gets his share but if the players execute, nobody is talking about his schemes.  And more than just the defense, the offense shares some blame as well.

No defensive unit can spend the entire game on the field and succeed. Especially in the era where the league has worked to make it easier for offenses to succeed than for defenses to succeed. And Pees did have some bad players to work with. But the best coordinators find ways (devise schemes) that work with the players they have. They don't devise schemes and then demand their players execute them. I think that's what Pees and Marty both do. And I think it's why they fail.

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The quality of defensive players has definitely fallen off since 2012. There's no way around that. But we haven't exactly been playing with mincemeat on the defense either.

But when you're asking your defense to make a hold at the end of a game, especially at home, you have to do it. But they've routinely given up big plays at the end of games that have killed our seasons.

It's on the players, sure, but it's also on the coach too and since Pees has been here we've blown more 4th Q leads than I can remember. Even if he didn't "retire" he should have been fired.

It seems to me that Pees has a nose for when he's not going to come back and decides to leave on his own accord.

 

Edited by Pickle20

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On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 11:16 AM, Pickle20 said:

Pees has been the DC since 2012.

The blown leads go back further than 2017.

2016: Raiders, Giants, Steelers

2015: Raiders, Bengals, Browns, Jaguars

2014: Bengals, Bengals, Chargers, not to mention the two 14 point leads blown in the playoffs against New England.

And there's more but I have to head into a meeting.

 

Someone who doesn't know any better would read this and say 'Wow. Pees sucks!" but there is so much more details that are left out here. Lets start with the Patriots. The Ravens blew two 14 point leads. This is correct. I would be willing to bet though that the Ravens had a record setting number of injuries to their cornerbacks that year. You can say "Injuries are part of the game." or "every team has injuries" but the Ravens unfortunately could not plan for the amount of injuries they had that year. No team could. We were literally picking up players that no other team wanted on a Monday and they were playing that Sunday. Pees did a great job that year for what he had to work with.

Some of these other games I do not remember but I do remember the Raiders game in 2106. I thought it was a perfect defense that Pees called that led to the Raiders go ahead touchdown. There was a safety back there to prevent the touchdown. He bit on a fake and got caught out of position. I'm sorry but I put that on the player there. There was no reason to bite on that fake. I do not doubt for one second that 90% of this board disagrees here but I've learned over time that does not mean I am wrong.

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I'm not much of an X and O guy but he routinely went too soft on defense late in games. Other teams keep bringing it, but he laid off.

 

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