EgyptKang

Today show reveals the "newly recreated" bust of Nefertiti

108 posts in this topic

I can’t tell if this thread is about Egypt or the Civil War

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On 2/11/2018 at 1:48 PM, Papi said:

LOL. The Holy Order of the Perpetually Offended have a new cause to complain about. Too funny. But if you want to really get upset, watch a few episodes of Ancient Aliens on the History Channel and see what they say about the true identity of the ancient Egyptians. That will really put some folks over the edge. :D :P

Black Egyptian hypothesis.

Apparently they weren't either one. The OP should be more selective in his selection of history sources. :)

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13 minutes ago, blowboatbethesda said:

Black Egyptian hypothesis.

Apparently they weren't either one. The OP should be more selective in his selection of history sources. :)

White Supremacists since the 19th century have equally been obsessed with race and ancient Egypt.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_race_controversy

In reality, it depends on how broadly one defines “Black” or “White”. Ancient Egyptians have been shown to have a mix of Mediterranean and Sub-Saharan African DNA just like modern Egyptians. 

Certainly they were people of color...

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3 minutes ago, soulflower said:

White Supremacists since the 19th century have equally been obsessed with race and ancient Egypt.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_race_controversy

In reality, it depends on how broadly one defines “Black” or “White”. Ancient Egyptians have been shown to have a mix of Mediterranean and Sub-Saharan African DNA just like modern Egyptians. 

Certainly they were people of color...

Quote

Since the second half of the 20th century, typological and hierarchical models of race have increasingly been rejected by scientists, and most (but not all) scholars have held that applying modern notions of race to ancient Egypt is anachronistic.[7][8][9]

At the UNESCO "Symposium on the Peopling of Ancient Egypt and the Deciphering of the Meroitic script" in Cairo in 1974, the Black hypothesis met with profound disagreement.[10] Nearly all participants concluded that the ancient Egyptian population was indigenous to the Nile Valley, and was made up of people from north and south of the Sahara who were differentiated by their color.[11]

And it doesn't even mention "white supremacists!" :rolleyes:

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17 minutes ago, blowboatbethesda said:

Yeah. In the 19th century, it was just “white people” ;). In the 20th century it was Eugenists. Today, it’s the Alt-Right. 

“White Supremacist” is a modern term and Wikipedia is being politically correct. 

The Afro-Centric hypotheses on ancient Egypt started in the 1960s.

Whites have been debating the race issue regarding Egypt far longer...

In the 18th century, Constantin François de Chassebœuf, comte de Volney, wrote "The Copts are the proper representatives of the Ancient Egyptians" due to their "jaundiced and fumed skin, which is neither Greek, Negro nor Arab, their full faces, their puffy eyes, their crushed noses, and their thick lips ... the ancient Egyptians were true negroes of the same type as all native born Africans".[3][4]

Just a few years later, in 1839, Jean-François Champollion stated in his work Egypte Ancienne that the Egyptians and Nubians are represented in the same manner in tomb paintings and reliefs, further suggesting that: "In the Copts of Egypt, we do not find any of the characteristic features of the ancient Egyptian population. The Copts are the result of crossbreeding with all the nations that successfully dominated Egypt. It is wrong to seek in them the principal features of the old race."[5] Also in 1839, Champollion's and Volney's claims were disputed by Jacques Joseph Champollion-Figeac, who blamed the ancients for spreading a false impression of a Negro Egypt, stating "The opinion that the ancient population of Egypt belonged to the Negro African race, is an error long accepted as the truth. ... Volney's conclusion as to the Negro origin of the ancient Egyptian civilization is evidently forced and inadmissible."[6]

The debate over the race of the ancient Egyptians intensified during the 19th century movement to abolish slavery in the United States, as arguments relating to the justifications for slavery increasingly asserted the historical, mental and physical inferiority of black people. For example, in 1851, John Campbell directly challenged the claims by Champollion and others regarding the evidence for a black Egypt, asserting "There is one great difficulty, and to my mind an insurmountable one, which is that the advocates of the negro civilization of Egypt do not attempt to account for, how this civilization was lost.... Egypt progressed, and why, because it was Caucasian."[7

Edited by soulflower

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22 minutes ago, soulflower said:

White Supremacists since the 19th century have equally been obsessed with race and ancient Egypt.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_race_controversy

In reality, it depends on how broadly one defines “Black” or “White”. Ancient Egyptians have been shown to have a mix of Mediterranean and Sub-Saharan African DNA just like modern Egyptians. 

Certainly they were people of color...

The definition is, of course, fluid, and has always changed, generally based on the needs of whites. If you go from the deepest part of Africa to the tip of Norway, you will not cross a point where one would say that those on one side are white and those on the other side, Black.

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6 minutes ago, hst2 said:

The definition is, of course, fluid, and has always changed, generally based on the needs of whites. If you go from the deepest part of Africa to the tip of Norway, you will not cross a point where one would say that those on one side are white and those on the other side, Black.

You are hereby nominated the "Master of the Obvious" prize for the day.  :rolleyes:

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I watched "Land of the Pharaohs" again this past weekend. I know what they all looked like and they all had English accents just like the Romans! :D 

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5 minutes ago, Bartman said:

I watched "Land of the Pharaohs" again this past weekend. I know what they all looked like and they all had English accents just like the Romans! :D 

Yeah, in 1963 Richard Burton turned out to be a real pain in the asp for Elizabeth Taylor! :D

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1 hour ago, soulflower said:

She was King Tut’s grandmother 

Not being a wisguy soulflower. But why is that relevant to her identity?

Respectfully. 

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3 minutes ago, prodigalson1 said:

Not being a wisguy soulflower. But why is that relevant to her identity?

Respectfully. 

I think you misunderstood me

Most people have no idea who Queen Tiye was. Everyone has heard of King Tutankamun. 

I mentioned who she was related to in order to give some context to the time period she lived. 

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On 2/11/2018 at 1:48 PM, Papi said:

LOL. The Holy Order of the Perpetually Offended have a new cause to complain about. Too funny. But if you want to really get upset, watch a few episodes of Ancient Aliens on the History Channel and see what they say about the true identity of the ancient Egyptians. That will really put some folks over the edge. :D :P

LOL! You'd be perpetually offended as well, if you were perpetually minimized, demonized and discounted. Don't pretend that you wouldn't. 

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19 minutes ago, soulflower said:

I think you misunderstood me

Most people have no idea who Queen Tiye was. Everyone has heard of King Tutankamun. 

I mentioned who she was related to in order to give some context to the time period she lived. 

👍

Gotcha. 

Queen Tiye is the woman shown on the first page of this thread. That's what I wanted to show.

And you're right. She is the grandmother of King Tut.

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On 2/11/2018 at 2:11 PM, Papi said:

I complain about over-reaction based on emotion instead of reason. I really don't care about statues of people who were only slave owners, but I do think it is an over-reaction when some people suggest that statues of Washington, Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, and other founding fathers or historical figures prominent in American history should be viewed in the same negative light as leaders of the confederacy. Just as I find it an emotional over-reaction among some posters who keep appearing to want to erase all references to the Civil War that don't live down to their preferred definition of all southerners of that era as evil slave owning traitors. History is more complicated than that, whether we like it or not. 

No it's not,... the history around American Slavery, the Antebellum and Civil War eras is not complicated at all. You just want it to be complicated and complex,... you fear a simplistic approach will be too revealing. So you seek the cover and escape mechanism of complexity.

Edited by ericpd

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3 minutes ago, ericpd said:

No it's not,... history is not complicated at all. You just want it to be complicated,... you fear it's simplicity!

Yes it is very complicated and that fact doesn't change just because you are incapable of understanding the complexities. Simplicity is for the simple-minded.

Edited by Smokey 1

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On 2/11/2018 at 2:21 PM, EgyptKang said:

This reminds me of a skit by Richard Pryor which was so spot on.

 

Hahahaha! Nice! Point well made EK! LOL!

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1 minute ago, Smokey 1 said:

Yes it is very complicated and that fact doesn't change just because you are incapable of understanding the complexities. Simplicity is for the simple-minded.

Hey Smokey,... been awhile! 

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I'm not sure why blacks would want to claim a slave state as their heritage.  Wouldn't it make sense to blame it on white people?  

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4 minutes ago, jdsample said:

I'm not sure why blacks would want to claim a slave state as their heritage.  Wouldn't it make sense to blame it on white people?  

Your post is so incoherent I don’t even know if Im supposed to be offended 

:rolleyes:

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Just now, soulflower said:

Your post is so incoherent I don’t even know if Im supposed to be offended 

:rolleyes:

I would try reading it again.  When the brownie laced with THC wears off.  Ancient Egypt achieved some great things on the backs of slaves.  Do you want to own that or disown that?

 

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36 minutes ago, Smokey 1 said:

Yes it is very complicated and that fact doesn't change just because you are incapable of understanding the complexities. Simplicity is for the simple-minded.

No it's not,... the history around American Slavery, the Antebellum and Civil War eras is not complicated at all. You just want it to be complicated and complex,... you fear a simplistic approach will be too revealing. So you seek the cover and escape mechanism of complexity.

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1 minute ago, ericpd said:

No it's not,... the history around American Slavery, the Antebellum and Civil War eras is not complicated at all. You just want it to be complicated and complex,... you fear a simplistic approach will be too revealing. So you seek the cover and escape mechanism of complexity.

Too revealing?  What would be revealed and why should I be concerned about it?

Tell me what have you done to study the period?  Classes taken, books read, lectures attended. 

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42 minutes ago, jdsample said:

I would try reading it again.  When the brownie laced with THC wears off.  Ancient Egypt achieved some great things on the backs of slaves.  Do you want to own that or disown that?

 

What great things specifically are you referring to?

We know the Great Pyramids were not built by slaves

https://www.usnews.com/science/articles/2010/01/12/egypt-new-find-shows-slaves-didnt-build-pyramids

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