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hst2

The reckless irresponsibility of the GOP shows that conservatism is dead - there is only the cult of Trump

43 posts in this topic

12 hours ago, JoyinMudville said:

Bubbles burst.

The rate of health inflation decreased in the years after the ACA was enacted.

People act as if health care costs weren't skyrocketing before Obama.

As for real estate. Real estate depreciated in several regions throughout the United States throughout the 70s and 80s

Reagan asked if we were better off than we were 4 years ago. That's the standard. So when I look at my house equity and my pay check, should I believe you and the dems or my lying eyes?

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1 hour ago, MiddleOfTheRoad said:

The only thing the Democrats need to take responsibility for regarding the election of Trump is that they rigged their primary to put forth an incompetent, untrustworthy unlikeable candidate who had the distinct embarrassment of losing to Trump.

Let me correct something; I don’t support the Republican Party.  I support some of their ideas, and certainly more of the their ideas than the nonsense that comes out Pelosi and Schumer, but to suggest that I support the Republican Party is just another of your frequent errors.  Bush’s spending was as foolish as was his starting a war in Iraq.  How one can start a war and reduce taxes at the same time is beyond ny understanding.  Obama’s spending was, if not criminally stupid, at least as foolish as was Bush’s.  Obama continued a war we didn’t need and borrowed roughly the same value as Bush.  Putting forth Obama as a hero of responsible fiduciary actions is a little like putting forth the Titanic as a picture of seaworthiness.

 

 

 

I have to chuckle at this. Are you suggesting that Trump is likable? Most certainly he is not. Hillary is criticized for exhibiting the same qualities that are praised, or at the very least, tolerated, in Trump. She is hated for it, he is elevated to the presidency for it. That's not her or the Democrats fault. 

The irony, of course, is if she were president today, the Republicans would be fighting her spending because, they would argue, that it contributes to the debt/deficit (although she would not have proposed a tax giveaway for the rich). In other words, they would criticize her for the very policy they are supporting today. This is how immoral the GOP has become.

Nothing is more responsible for Trump than the false equivalency that you provide here. Trump and the GOP is portrayed as no worse or no better than previous leaders, which is clearly not the case. The argument showing the difference is laid out here, but you insist on ignoring it and creating your own rhetoric-filled alternative world.

Edited by hst2

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12 hours ago, mrdeltoid said:

Here's what I know. I'm just one man, but my health insurance out paced my pay check, and for the first time in my 62 years, real estate depreciated.  

And which party is in power now?

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LMAO the liberals are still whining in their spilt milk that Hillary Clinton was decisively defeated by President Trump. :lol:

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46 minutes ago, hst2 said:

And which party is in power now?

At the time that happened the dems. The first check since 2008 with more money in it arrived in January after the tax cuts went into effect. The whole time Obama was in office my pension check was less than when I first retired in 2008. I'm better off with one year of Trump than 8 years of Obama. The last time I voted in a general election I voted for Clinton, and he enacted the WEP that cut my SS. The dems have not been kind to me.

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9 hours ago, bmorepunk said:

That's the thing that is annoying. We all know about "tax and spend" Democrats. Republicans are supposed to be good at fiscal policy. But like ivan has pointed out, mainline Republicans are now "tax and spend" Republicans who also destroy revenue.

Actually I think the Republicans are the "borrow and spend" Republicans.  

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15 minutes ago, mrdeltoid said:

At the time that happened the dems. The first check since 2008 with more money in it arrived in January after the tax cuts went into effect. The whole time Obama was in office my pension check was less than when I first retired in 2008. I'm better off with one year of Trump than 8 years of Obama. The last time I voted in a general election I voted for Clinton, and he enacted the WEP that cut my SS. The dems have not been kind to me.

Well, with Trump, its early yet.

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1 hour ago, hst2 said:

 

I have to chuckle at this. Are you suggesting that Trump is likable? Most certainly he is not. Hillary is criticized for exhibiting the same qualities that are praised, or at the very least, tolerated, in Trump. She is hated for it, he is elevated to the presidency for it. That's not her or the Democrats fault. 

The irony, of course, is if she were president today, the Republicans would be fighting her spending because, they would argue, that it contributes to the debt/deficit (although she would not have proposed a tax giveaway for the rich). In other words, they would criticize her for the very policy they are supporting today. This is how immoral the GOP has become.

Nothing is more responsible for Trump than the false equivalency that you provide here. Trump and the GOP is portrayed as no worse or no better than previous leaders, which is clearly not the case. The argument showing the difference is laid out here, but you insist on ignoring it and creating your own rhetoric-filled alternative world.

I’m not sure how you get an idea that I think Trump is likeable, other than to deflect from the point I made that the DNC’s pre-selection of the unlikeable Clinton cost them the WH.

It’s good that you can predict the future of what would have happened under a non-existent Clinton Presidency.  And an abortion supporter talking about an immoral political party  continues to amuse anyone with a rational mind.

What is responsible for Trump is 16 years of divisive Presidential politics.

 

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31 minutes ago, MiddleOfTheRoad said:

I’m not sure how you get an idea that I think Trump is likeable, other than to deflect from the point I made that the DNC’s pre-selection of the unlikeable Clinton cost them the WH.

It’s good that you can predict the future of what would have happened under a non-existent Clinton Presidency.  And an abortion supporter talking about an immoral political party  continues to amuse anyone with a rational mind.

What is responsible for Trump is 16 years of divisive Presidential politics.

 

If Trump is not likable than the criticism that Clinton lost because she is unlikable doesn't carry any weight. I think you are right, btw, but you ignore the obvious: women are held to standards that men are not.

The abortion card is a ruse.

Predicting the future is based on the GOP's behavior  and what they claimed they stood for, for the past eight, if not 80, years.

The GOP is primarily responsible for our divisive politics. I can provide bi-partisan support for that assertion as well.

Edited by hst2

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54 minutes ago, mrdeltoid said:

At the time that happened the dems. The first check since 2008 with more money in it arrived in January after the tax cuts went into effect. The whole time Obama was in office my pension check was less than when I first retired in 2008. I'm better off with one year of Trump than 8 years of Obama. The last time I voted in a general election I voted for Clinton, and he enacted the WEP that cut my SS. The dems have not been kind to me.

How exactly does your pension work?  Does the check amount solely rely on federal income taxes?  :confused:

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2 minutes ago, ivanbalt said:

How exactly does your pension work?  Does the check amount solely rely on federal income taxes?  :confused:

This oughta be good  :lol:

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44 minutes ago, hst2 said:

If Trump is not likable than the criticism that Clinton lost because she is unlikable doesn't carry any weight. I think you are right, btw, but you ignore the obvious: women are held to standards that men are not.

The abortion card is a ruse.

Predicting the future is based on the GOP's behavior  and what they claimed they stood for, for the past eight, if not 80, years.

The GOP is primarily responsible for our divisive politics. I can provide bi-partisan support for that assertion as well.

I guess if you just deny reality your points have some validity.  Unfortunately, in the world of grown ups, denying reality doesn’t play well.

Clinton is not likeable, but she is also demonstrably incompetent, at least based on her failure as Secretary of State.  The abortion card is a ruse to you because you accept the idea of ending fetal life as some kind of right.

Anyone can provide bi-partisan support for any point any one wants to make.  I prefer to trust my eyes.  Cheney led the dupe into a divisive Presidency that forged a wide suscipion between the right and the left.  Obama led the left into a “republicans are evil” mindset, a lead the spineless Reid and Pelosi bobble heads were only too happy to follow.  And Trump’s policy by tweet is absent any merit.

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19 minutes ago, MiddleOfTheRoad said:

I guess if you just deny reality your points have some validity.  Unfortunately, in the world of grown ups, denying reality doesn’t play well.

Clinton is not likeable, but she is also demonstrably incompetent, at least based on her failure as Secretary of State.  The abortion card is a ruse to you because you accept the idea of ending fetal life as some kind of right.

Anyone can provide bi-partisan support for any point any one wants to make.  I prefer to trust my eyes.  Cheney led the dupe into a divisive Presidency that forged a wide suscipion between the right and the left.  Obama led the left into a “republicans are evil” mindset, a lead the spineless Reid and Pelosi bobble heads were only too happy to follow.  And Trump’s policy by tweet is absent any merit.

Please point out the reality that is being ignored.

Your argument against Clinton is dependent upon her being held to a different standard than men.

Your support for this is borne out in your double standard with regard to the right to control one's own body.

Essentially, you are saying that your rely on your own prejudices, not the facts or the reality we live in - such as the understanding the deficit spending is helpful in an eceominc recession but not so much when economic times are good. That has been made clear throughout your posts on this topic.

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1 hour ago, ivanbalt said:

How exactly does your pension work?  Does the check amount solely rely on federal income taxes?  :confused:

My pension stayed pretty much the same, other than a COLA here and there. The problem was my health insurance, I had to change carriers twice to keep the OB/GYN my wife wanted. For whatever reason, the monthly insurance seemed to go up and actually out pace my pension check. Last month it went up $60 and change and my wife's disability went up $40 and change. It ain't a lot, but after 8 years, it's better than what I was getting.

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18 minutes ago, hst2 said:

Please point out the reality that is being ignored.

Your argument against Clinton is dependent upon her being held to a different standard than men.

Your support for this is borne out in your double standard with regard to the right to control one's own body.

Essentially, you are saying that your rely on your own prejudices, not the facts or the reality we live in - such as the understanding the deficit spending is helpful in an eceominc recession but not so much when economic times are good. That has been made clear throughout your posts on this topic.

What nonsense you post.

Clinton was an abject failure as Secretary of State and, at best, an adequate Senator for NY.  

Every woman should be able to control her own body; that stops when a different life is ended however.

Deficit spending has a place, but it also has limits.  $19T in deficit spending has exceeded all reasonable limits, except of course, for those who feel there should be no control on spending someone’s resources, such as you have made clear are your biases since you began posting.

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I've been following this discussion a couple of days, and have been reticent to jump in.  However, I think there are several points being thrown about that need further comment.  there is much to discuss, health care, why we are permitting a criminal in the WH, why Congress isn't doing their job as directed by the Constitution.  However, what I would like to focus on is why we are where we are today.  It is because the Democratic Party is catering to the far left, and the Republican Party to the far right.  Moderates in both parties, the ones that really develop bipartisanship and good government, have been frozen out completely (from both parties).  Let's face it, the Democrats had three candidates for President.  Can anyone really say Bernie Sanders and Martin O'Malley were better candidates than Hillary Clinton?  Again, none of those three were moderate Democrats.  On the other side, the only serious contender who wasn't saying absolutely ridiculous things was John Kacisch.  Not a coincidence, he is also the only "moderate" in the group.  Also not by coincidence, he finished a far third to Trump and Cruz.  Maybe it is time for a third party that represents the majority of Americans.  For those of us that follow history, George Washington, in his farewell speech, said that political parties and political partisanship would be detrimental to the republic and to democracy.  Although it took 250 years, we may finally be there.

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7 minutes ago, GRF said:

I've been following this discussion a couple of days, and have been reticent to jump in.  However, I think there are several points being thrown about that need further comment.  there is much to discuss, health care, why we are permitting a criminal in the WH, why Congress isn't doing their job as directed by the Constitution.  However, what I would like to focus on is why we are where we are today.  It is because the Democratic Party is catering to the far left, and the Republican Party to the far right.  Moderates in both parties, the ones that really develop bipartisanship and good government, have been frozen out completely (from both parties).  Let's face it, the Democrats had three candidates for President.  Can anyone really say Bernie Sanders and Martin O'Malley were better candidates than Hillary Clinton?  Again, none of those three were moderate Democrats.  On the other side, the only serious contender who wasn't saying absolutely ridiculous things was John Kacisch.  Not a coincidence, he is also the only "moderate" in the group.  Also not by coincidence, he finished a far third to Trump and Cruz.  Maybe it is time for a third party that represents the majority of Americans.  For those of us that follow history, George Washington, in his farewell speech, said that political parties and political partisanship would be detrimental to the republic and to democracy.  Although it took 250 years, we may finally be there.

I’m not sure that it is so much a time for a 3rd party as it is for We, the People to stop letting this nonsense go on.  We go to the polls and vote for these fools.  We let them get away with TV commercials that, for the most part, do not take a position but either (1) verbally assault the opponent or (2) promise some mythical condition that will change the world, cure acne, make you lose weight and be rich.  

So long as we put 85% of these clods back in office every cycle, we’re going to get this kind of government.

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1 hour ago, GRF said:

I've been following this discussion a couple of days, and have been reticent to jump in.  However, I think there are several points being thrown about that need further comment.  there is much to discuss, health care, why we are permitting a criminal in the WH, why Congress isn't doing their job as directed by the Constitution.  However, what I would like to focus on is why we are where we are today.  It is because the Democratic Party is catering to the far left, and the Republican Party to the far right.  Moderates in both parties, the ones that really develop bipartisanship and good government, have been frozen out completely (from both parties).  Let's face it, the Democrats had three candidates for President.  Can anyone really say Bernie Sanders and Martin O'Malley were better candidates than Hillary Clinton?  Again, none of those three were moderate Democrats.  On the other side, the only serious contender who wasn't saying absolutely ridiculous things was John Kacisch.  Not a coincidence, he is also the only "moderate" in the group.  Also not by coincidence, he finished a far third to Trump and Cruz.  Maybe it is time for a third party that represents the majority of Americans.  For those of us that follow history, George Washington, in his farewell speech, said that political parties and political partisanship would be detrimental to the republic and to democracy.  Although it took 250 years, we may finally be there.

Clinton isn't particularly 'leftist'. She garnered praise from conservatives.

The founders, like Washington, hated political parties. They wrote a constitution that discourages them. It seems unlikely that they would have supported  the idea of a third one.  

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